DCA vs. MK; Or, How DLR Took Off In 2012

[TP2000]

Lurking over on Micechat this morning, I found a discussion about DCA and a post from a CM there called "Westsider" who laid out an interesting contrast between DCA and WDW's Magic Kingdom Park.

I won't try and summarize the conversation that led to this exact post from Westsider, but since I love lists :lol:, it was an interesting list comparing the roster of attractions between DCA and MK.

A Tickets
DCA - 2 (Animation Lobby & Sorcerers Workshop, Blue Sky Cellar/Mater's Tall Tales Theater)
MK - 2 (Horsedrawn Streetcar, Main St. Vehicles)

B Tickets
DCA - 6 (Carousel, Flik's Flyers, Francis Ladybug Boogie, Tuck n' Roll's, Heimlich's Chew Chew, Red Car Trolley)
MK - 4 (Carousel, Dumbo, Teacups, Alladin Magic Carpets)

C Tickets
DCA - 9 (Fun Wheel, Swings, Zephyr, Jumpin' Jellyfish, Luigi's, Mater's, Monsters Inc., Animation Academy, Turtle Talk)
MK -6 (Peter Pan, Pooh, Astro Orbiter, Swiss Family Treehouse, Buzz Lightyear, Great Goofini)

D Tickets
DCA - 7 (Midway Mania, Little Mermaid, Goofy's Sky School, Challenge Trail, Tough To Be A Bug, MuppetVision, Disney Junior)
MK - 13 (Hall of Presidents, Carousel of Progress, Country Bears, Laugh Floor, Stich's Great Escape, PeopleMover, Tiki Room, Riverboat, Tom Sawyer Island, Autopia, WDW Railroad, Little Mermaid, Philharmagic)

E Ticket
DCA - 5 (Soarin', Screamin', Grizzly, Tower, Racers)
MK - 7 (Jungle, Pirates, Mansion, Splash, Thunder, Small World, Space Mt.)

Grand Total
Disney California Adventure in Summer, 2012 - 29 Attractions
Magic Kingdom Park by Christmas, 2012 - 32 Attractions (31 'til Mermaid opens)


Magic Kingdom clearly excels at D Tickets, although many are badly aging 1970's animatronic shows like the Bears and the Hall of Dead White Guys and the Carousel of Progress: 1993 Edition, or often iffy "updates" in existing theater facilities like Stich's Great Escape or Monsters Inc. Laugh Floor. But the Magic Kingdom has the D Ticket theater scene covered, and at least they are air conditioned!

This was fascinating to me to see how far DCA has come in the last three years. What the list doesn't show, however, is the aesthetic excellence and sharp design execution DCA now has throughout the park packed with all those rides.

Surely the Magic Kingdom Park in WDW has excellent design and has that emotional tug that no other park will have, except Disneyland. And Magic Kingdom Park has wonderful clones of all the Walt Disney classics like Pirates, Mansion, Small World, Jungle Cruise, Peter Pan, etc., etc. But about a hundred yards from DCA lies that other little park called Disneyland where all of the originals exist in arguably superior formats (except Splash Mountain :lookaroun ). Add in some really top notch entertainment and sparkling new spectaculars like Aladdin, Pixar Play Parade, Soundsational, fireworks show du jour, Mad T Party, Fantasmic!, World of Color, etc. and it's truly amazing what has been packed into that small space in Anaheim.

The point here is not so much a DCA vs. MK topic, but rather an example of just how much the entire Disneyland Resort has been changed by the 1.2 Billion dollar extreme makeover of DCA.

I think we've all been coming to the realization that the relaunch and grand opening of DCA 2.0 in a few weeks will be a really big deal, but it's also just hit me what a huge deal this will be for the entire Disneyland Resort. Talk about a Resort firing on all 8 cylinders!

 

[Californian Elitist]

Love this list. I am very proud of my home resort and I love the progression it has made since opening day on July 17, 1955, let alone within the past five years. I don't need the two extra parks, water parks, golf courses and multiple hotels to have a good Disney time (although I still really want to visit Florida). The Disneyland Resort is just enough for me and I'm happy to be a vet of the original and legendary Disney park!

 

[dweezil78]

The way those ticket letters are assigned is pretty debatable, I think many would agree. I wouldn't call Grizzly an 'E' just like I wouldn't call CoP or the PeopleMover a 'D' (as much as I LOVE both of those.) But sure, as far as quantity of attractions go, I guess both parks are pretty close.

But as you said, when it comes down to the park design and the overall magic factor, MK is going to win hands down. I definitely enjoy spending time at DCA -- if you're at DL and have an AP it's just steps away so why not go, but the problem with the park is that it lacks soul.

Sure it's come a long way with all the recent upgrades (though I can't enjoy Mermaid no matter how much I try and it will be no different at MK), but I still feel like the whole thing is kind of a pig in lipstick, you know?

Sadly, as much as it will undergo change, DCA underneath it all will always be the shell of a badly designed park that was driven by greed and shallow pockets and not a desire to wow people and do something that's never been done before. (See Tokyo DisneySea -- which only has a fraction of the amount of DCA's attractions -- for that!)

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

The way those ticket letters are assigned is pretty debatable, I think many would agree. I wouldn't call Grizzly an 'E' just like I wouldn't call CoP or the PeopleMover a 'D' (as much as I LOVE both of those.) But sure, as far as quantity of attractions go, I guess both parks are pretty close.

But as you said, when it comes down to the park design and the overall magic factor, MK is going to win hands down. I definitely enjoy spending time at DCA -- if you're at DL and have an AP it's just steps away so why not go, but the problem with the park is that it lacks soul.

Sure it's come a long way with all the recent upgrades (though I can't enjoy Mermaid no matter how much I try and it will be no different at MK), but I still feel like the whole thing is kind of a pig in lipstick, you know?

Sadly, as much as it will undergo change, DCA underneath it all will always be the shell of a badly designed park that was driven by greed and shallow pockets and not a desire to wow people and do something that's never been done before. (See Tokyo DisneySea -- which only has a fraction of the amount of DCA's attractions -- for that!)

That definitely has been the over arching feeling of DCA since its opening, but the recent additions to the park seemed to have (finally) brought two things that the park has always sorely lacked since opening: life and excitement. No doubt DCA's history will forever be tainted by its troubled creation (and I still think, going forward, there are too many experiences based on "current" franchises instead of timeless, non-franchise themes - unfortunately, Carsland is not helping that trend), but I don't think it will forever define it.

For the first time since its grand opening, people are actually curious and excited to visit DCA. That must surely be a welcomed changed for TDA AND guests and can serve as the catalyst for even better changes going forward. Many people are becoming fans of DCA and are actually starting to care about what is taking place there. Its people that give a park its history and its soul and I think having a vocal group of people who care may be enough for DCA to overcome its austere beginnings.

 

[TP2000]

The way those ticket letters are assigned is pretty debatable, I think many would agree. I wouldn't call Grizzly an 'E' just like I wouldn't call CoP or the PeopleMover a 'D' (as much as I LOVE both of those.) But sure, as far as quantity of attractions go, I guess both parks are pretty close.

But as you said, when it comes down to the park design and the overall magic factor, MK is going to win hands down. I definitely enjoy spending time at DCA -- if you're at DL and have an AP it's just steps away so why not go, but the problem with the park is that it lacks soul.

Sure, you could argue that some of those D Tickets should be C's, or so on. If the WDW version of Jungle Cruise can be an E Ticket, which hasn't had a rehab in a decade and looks like it has been hit with a serious case of the mange and is staffed with some truly unfunny skippers from the College Program, then Grizzly River Run on the opposite coast can also be an E Ticket. Especially if it's from May thru October and over 75 degrees. When I was at DCA on Sunday for a bit, Grizzly River Run had a 2 hour posted Standby wait. Obviously a bunch of people consider it an E Ticket worth waiting 2 hours for in Standby.

The nice thing about DCA is that Disneyland is steps away. And Disneyland beats Magic Kingdom Park in just about every category when it comes to the various offerings of the classic "Castle park" of the Disney empire. Except for perhaps walkway width, that's one area where Magic Kingdom Park wins hands down in a contest with Disneyland.

 

[TP2000]

2

Sadly, as much as it will undergo change, DCA underneath it all will always be the shell of a badly designed park that was driven by greed and shallow pockets and not a desire to wow people and do something that's never been done before. (See Tokyo DisneySea -- which only has a fraction of the amount of DCA's attractions -- for that!)

So... I abosolutely love DisneySea, and have been lucky enough to visit that park multiple times in the last 8 years or so. But your comment here made me realize how DisneySea doesn't really have a lot of attractions!

Using the list format already started here in the Westsider quote from Miceage, I just cut and pasted the attraction tally format and turned it into a DCA vs. DisneySea list. The results are really surprising! I added in Midway Mania in the DisneySea total, even though it doesn't open in Tokyo until later this year.

A Tickets
DCA - 2 (Animation Lobby & Sorcerers Workshop, Blue Sky Cellar/Mater's Tall Tales Theater)
DisneySea - 1 (Big City Vehicles)

B Tickets
DCA - 6 (Carousel, Flik's Flyers, Francis Ladybug Boogie, Tuck n' Roll's, Heimlich's Chew Chew, Red Car Trolley)
DisneySea - 6 (Carousel, Flying Carpets, Scuttle's Scooters, Whirlpool, Balloon Race, Electric Railway)

C Tickets
DCA - 9 (Fun Wheel, Swings, Zephyr, Jumpin' Jellyfish, Luigi's, Mater's, Monsters Inc., Animation Academy, Turtle Talk)
DisneySea - 4 (Jumpin' Jellyfish, Turtle Talk, Venetian Gondolas, Flounder's Coaster)

D Tickets
DCA - 7 (Midway Mania, Little Mermaid, Goofy's Sky School, Challenge Trail, Tough To Be A Bug, MuppetVision, Disney Junior)
DisneySea - 7 (Midway Mania, Fortress Explorations, Mermaid Theater, Magic Lamp Theater, Aquatopia, Steamer Line, Raging Spirits )

E Ticket
DCA - 5 (Soarin', Screamin', Grizzly, Tower of Terror, Racers)
DisneySea - 6 (Journey To The Center Of The Earth, Indiana Jones, 20K Leagues, Tower of Terror, Sinbad's Voyage, Stormrider )

Grand Total
Disney California Adventure in Summer, 2012 - 29 Attractions
Tokyo DisneySea, 2012 - 24 Attractions (23 'til Midway Mania opens)

Wow. DisneySea will need to go on a serious attraction-building binge in the next five years to catch up with DCA. But if DCA adds another E Ticket and a few C Tickets in that same time, DisneySea will still be playing catchup. This surprised even me.

 

[dweezil78]

So... I abosolutely love DisneySea, and have been lucky enough to visit that park multiple times in the last 8 years or so. But your comment here made me realize how DisneySea doesn't really have a lot of attractions!

Right, exactly... But even with fewer attractions, you'd be hard pressed to call DCA the better park. If all we cared about was attraction count, then we'd be hanging out on a Magic Mountain board somewhere. As nice as Carsland is shaping up to be, DCA is never going to look like this --

 

[TP2000]

No Disney theme park in America will ever look like that, dweezil78. Nor will any park in Europe (DCA 1.0 looks fabulous compared to Walt Disney Studios Paris). I doubt Hong Kong's second park will look that great, after copying Disneyland circa 1955 for its opening day in 2005. I even have doubts that Shanghai Disneyland will set any new benchmarks for aesthetics, and will probably look more like Disneyland Paris Lite than anything truly groundbreaking.

Tokyo DisneySea is one-of-a-kind aesthetically and from a design perspective. That it's built on landfill right alongside Tokyo Bay just makes it even more amazing. It's not easy to get to for most folks, and the vast majority of Disney theme park fans will never set foot in the place.

But DisneySea is drop-dead gorgeous from every angle. (Well, except on the back of the park, where the Lost River Delta area looks Adventureland-Average, but that's a rare hiccup)

 

[Californian Elitist]

Right, exactly... But even with fewer attractions, you'd be hard pressed to call DCA the better park. If all we cared about was attraction count, then we'd be hanging out on a Magic Mountain board somewhere. As nice as Carsland is shaping up to be, DCA is never going to look like this --

Who cares if DCA will never look like Disney Sea or Tokyo Disneyland? TP's point is DCA has come a long way and it can now be considered a decent and good enough Disney park. He's right, by the way. And the part about DCA having no soul... I agree, at first it didn't but I have no doubt it will indeed have a soul and its own identity come June 15th. I believe DCA is done living deeply in Disneyland's shadow.

 

[TP2000]

And for those who haven't been, Tokyo Disneyland is pleasant looking enough, but it's not exactly a stunner. Tokyo Disneyland has an aesthetic look that is sort of a more sterile version of Magic Kingdom Park in WDW. There are some pleasant vistas at Tokyo Disneyland around the Hub, but the lands themselves have some design misses. Particularly Frontierland, lots of Fantasyland, and the awkward transition from 1980's Tomorrowland to Fantasyland.


Tokyo Disneyland Tomorrowland Really Needs a Makeover by SpokkerJones, on Flickr

The attractions themselves, once you get past the front door, are gorgeously maintained and presented. And the CM service in Tokyo is lightyears beyond anything you'll get in an American park on the very best day in Anaheim. But the aesthetics of Tokyo Disneyland overall create a park that is physically large and uniquely styled, but not anything to write home about once you leave the Hub.

And then there's this little area, which is so awfully designed and randomly placed that it always just makes me laugh. I present Tokyo Disneyland's Fantasyland, where a circa 1975 10-arm Dumbo placed over a cement pad sits a few steps away from the entrance gate of a clone of WDW's Haunted Mansion. This isn't Photoshopped, it's real. And it's been like this in Tokyo for almost 30 years now. :lol:

The point to this thread isn't that DCA is now the best second-gate in the world. DisneySea and Epcot still rank higher in my book (although it wouldn't hurt both of those parks to add a few new rides, pronto!). But the giant leaps of design and offerings and amenities that DCA has taken in the last four years are truly amazing, and unprecedented in the history of Disney theme parks, or at least rivaled only by Disneyland itself circa 1966-69.

The attraction count at DCA is equal to two of WDW's parks, and the entertainment count at DCA is also equal to or greater than two of WDW's parks. That it also contains uniquely designed themed environments like Cars Land and Buena Vista Street, instead of just another rehash of Frontierland or Fantasyland or Futureland, is also a big plus.

And finally, that DCA sits mere steps away from Disneyland, almost as close as Dumbo is to the Haunted Mansion over in Tokyo, only makes DCA that more attractive. It's truly a world-class park in a world-class resort now. And all of it is walkable and easily navigated!

 

[Californian Elitist]

And finally, that DCA sits mere steps away from Disneyland, almost as close as Dumbo is to the Haunted Mansion over in Tokyo, only makes DCA that more attractive. It's truly a world-class park in a world-class resort now. And all of it is walkable and easily navigated!

Exactly!

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

No disrespect meant but for those comparing DLR to TDR they're comparing a chiwawa to the pit-bull of theme parks. DL has the advantage of having that charm of being the first and original. The history is present in every step and the creative ways all the attractions flow together is a unique aspect. However, having said that, TDR as a whole is just more grand, more coherent, and I'm sorry to say but no matter how many attractions TDS has or what kind of makeover DCA gets, TDS is just something you have to see to believe. Pictures don't do the place justice and to compare them just based on attraction-count is missing the point of how truly grand and one-of-a-kind TDS really is. And aside from a view bold patches of ugly over at TDL, the park ranks up there with the best in terms of maintenance, service, attraction count and offerings. Just my opinion... :wave:

(Having said all that I am truly impressed by DCA 2.0 and am glad to see the park become something that can stand on its own two feet and not feel like some second-tier to DL.)

 

[Californian Elitist]

I'm sure the first part of your comment wasn't the point the OP was trying to make, although you made some good points. The last part of what you said was the point. DCA has improved over the years. Is that the point you were trying to make, TP?

 

[TP2000]

I'm sure the first part of your comment wasn't the point the OP was trying to make, although you made some good points. The last part of what you said was the point. DCA has improved over the years. Is that the point you were trying to make, TP?

Why, raven24, it's almost like you've been reading my posts! :wave:

 

[dweezil78]

Without ranting and coming across as a hater, I'll just point to this...

Michael's article on Progress City USA really does a great of summing up how I feel about the whole DCA thing -- it's fairly critical, but a good read: http://progresscityusa.com/2011/12/18/the-carsland-conundrum/

To me, DCA feels like that troubled member of your family who you're so proud of for finally cleaning themselves up, going to rehab, and pulling their act together. They're never going to be mega-successful in life, but you're just happy they're able to stay out of trouble and not get arrested.

I'm only tough on DCA cause I love Disney -- and especially Disneyland -- so much. Compared to any other park in SoCal, DCA is easily #2 by a longshot.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Why, raven24, it's almost like you've been reading my posts! :wave:

:lol:It's not rocket science! Your point was pretty darn clear to me but people always have something negative to say.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Without ranting and coming across as a hater, I'll just point to this...

Michael's article on Progress City USA really does a great of summing up how I feel about the whole DCA thing -- it's fairly critical, but a good read: http://progresscityusa.com/2011/12/18/the-carsland-conundrum/

To me, DCA feels like that troubled member of your family who you're so proud of for finally cleaning themselves up, going to rehab, and pulling their act together. They're never going to be mega-successful in life, but you're just happy they're able to stay out of trouble and not get arrested.

I'm only tough on DCA cause I love Disney -- and especially Disneyland -- so much. Compared to any other park in SoCal, DCA is easily #2 by a longshot.

I've noticed you ALWAYS have something negative to say and you, for the most part, come off as a hater, even when you say you're not. To me, DCA is that family member that fell off, but changed his/her ways and is making great progress and will be on their feet soon. DCA will never be successful? Wow. I guess we'll see what happens after June 15th.

 

[dweezil78]

I've noticed you ALWAYS have something negative to say and you, for the most part, come off as a hater, even when you say you're not. To me, DCA is that family member that fell off, but changed his/her ways and is making great progress and will be on their feet soon. DCA will never be successful? Wow. I guess we'll see what happens after June 15th.

I didn't mean it literally -- obviously DCA isn't on drugs or at risk of getting arrested either. Yeesh.

I'm not a hater, I'm a realist and I'm most certainly not an apologist like most of the people seem to be around here as it pertains to DCA. Everyone is just so gosh darn happy to finally have something that doesn't totally stink in this park, they refuse to look at things any further than the shiny surface level.

I spend more money on Disney than anything else in my life. I praise what should be praised -- I can on and on about how much I loved Star Tours 2.0 or how absolutely stunning the Matterhorn refurb is looking. All great things. And in the case with DCA - Cars Land, as I've said over and over, looks absolutely beautiful and there's no denying that Buena Vista St. and Carthay Circle look fantastic. So please don't call me a hater just because I also look at the other sides of the coin.

 

[nemofinder22]

It's good to see other opinions on here even more so since the DLR section rarely sees a lot of other opinions and discussions. Much more civilized and respectful than some other boards which will no nameless.

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

It's not rocket science! Your point was pretty darn clear to me but people always have something negative to say

If you were referring to my post, I really don't see the negativity of it. I recognize all the improvements and am proud of Disney for stepping up but I hardly see the negative in preferring one Disney park over the other.