Carousel Of Progress Closure

glens

New Member
Original Poster
Just returned after spending six days at WDW and spoke to a tour guide about specific Disney World issues; she was very forthcoming, especially when we were "offstage" or underground in the infamous WDW corridors.

The guide told me that WDW employees were notified one day prior to Carousel of Progress' closing with a memo basically stating: Enjoy it for the next day because it's closing tomorrow. The cast members were shocked. I was then told that the reason for its demise was likely due to the fact that the attraction didn't have a sponsor (sad that everything needs corp. dollars to exist) and it also required an enormous amount of electricity to operate. And when you combine the lack of sponsorship, poor attendance and power drain, it adds up to its demise according to the decision makers. I think it's sad that they would kill off one of Walt's original creations -- it's like closing the Hall of Presidents or It's A Small World.

In addition, when I asked why WDW doesn't upgrade the sound systems in attractions such as the HauntedMansion or Country Bear Jamboree, she paused, seemed to be angered, and said, "When Eisner decides to start spending some money on the actual parks and stops buying 'stuff'....all he does is spend money on stuff we don't need (i.e. Fox Family, etc.) and doesn't reinvest into its cash centers." I have to agree. It's evidenced in additions to crap like Wide World Of Sports complex and that horrendous race track over near the Exxon station/Magic Kingdom parking lots. Now all of Disney/ABC's holdings are being forced upon the public and further diluting the dream that was created in WDW. Why is Casey's Corner on Main Street essentially an ESPN outlet? There's also an ESPN Zone restaurant. It's bulls%*(. The entire left side of Main St. has become an interconnected mall of the same stuff you can find at the other 500 retail outlets on the grounds. It's overkill.

The only good news I heard was that Roy (Walt's nephew) is rumored to be planning a takeover and will try to force a split between Disney theme parks and the Disney corporate (i.e. the rest of the junk accumulated over the years). It could help build more confidence among shareholders because the theme parks make Disney money, unlike floundering TV stations and cable networks. I would invest in Disney theme parks if it were to split -- Disney stock has never really been a good stock to own in the past. If Roy could wrestle control over it, we could see true Disney innovation reinvested back into its parks, and a member of the Disney family once again controlling Walt's original vision.

While there have been many fine new additions made to WDW in recent years (i.e. Wilderness Lodge, Grand Floridian), it has also seemed to be unable to consistently come up with attractions that meet the standards set by Walt: something that can be enjoyed by both children and their parents -- with a heaping dose of Disney imagineering. We have seen additions such as Aladdin's Magic carpets which are certainly fun for small kids, but looks more like a carnival ride and totally lacks any creativity or Disney magic. Parents can only ride it because the carpets/cars are large enough to fit their fat . A staffer on the Jungle Cruise even bashed it during the cruise by saying, "You go in a circle for 90 seconds. Big deal." And then you have attractions such as Tower Of Terror, Aerosmith and a souped up Test Track and you essentially have thrill rides that cater to the Universal/Six Flags/Bush Gardens fans only looking for adrenaline-pumping excitement. While something like Tower... is well done aesthetically, it's essentially a free fall ride in a nice package. The point here is that the bigger E-ticket attractions like these are thrilling to younger people and tend to leave out older parents and small children. Disney magic is not manifested in free falls, corkscrews in the dark or 65 mph straightaways, it's something completely unique that combines innovation, imagination, vision and all of the things that Walt was famous for. I remember the same enjoyment I felt on my first trip to WDW in 1976 as an 8 year old kid, and then a trip in 1989 when I was much older. It wasn't the speed of Space Mountain or Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, or the way the Haunted Mansion spooked me, it was the fact that whether I was 8 or 21, I was always amazed and thrilled by the cumulation of experiences and the way a trip to WDW tickeled my imagination and sense of wonder -- it literally does bring out the kid in everyone. The thrill was simply being there and being awed by the sights and smells and the smallest attention to detail, and the way you feel like you've stepped into another world. It doesn't take 360 degree loops to do that. It was done in much more visceral and innovative ways. The feeling you get when experiencing the queue on Pirates of the Carribean, or the sensory overload of Main St., or the fantastic sparkle in your eye when sailing on Peter Pans Flight, or even standing in Tomorrowland at night and gazing up at Space Mountain. The substance is all around you -- it's in the way the cast members smile and say hello -- and not necessarily in the big drops or hairpin turns. That is what Disney's decision makers need to be reminded of once again and stop taking the road most traveled. The new additions to Animal Kingdom also look to be lackluster attempts to simply offer more stuff to do during the day rather than truly give people such a singular experience that they will want to return over and over to feel it. That's why even at 33 I may still have the most fun at the Magic Kingdom. Not only does it remind me of the experiences I had when I was a kid, but it's still the only place on earth where you can truly feel like you are in another world. It's also the only place that truly exemplifies what Walt's original vision was all about. You can't feel it at Disney-MGM, Animal Kingdom or even EPCOT. That park should only be overseen by someone like Roy who will hopefully keep Walt's dream alive.
 

DanStat

Well-Known Member
Amen!

Can I get an AMEN!

That is really the truth though. All of the attractions that are going up are just pre-fabricated rides, with different colors of paint.

I think Roy Disney taking over the Disney theme parks would be the best thing to happen to Disney since it's introduction
 

prberk

Well-Known Member
I agree

I agree, Glens. WDW was never about thrill rides to me. It was about wonder and the ability to dream. It was about, "why rely on roads when monorails would be more fun?" It was about the attention to detail, and building "the dream."

I actually think, though, that the whole company still could be righted, even with its many component parts.

Specifically, I think that the "vision" of EPCOT could actually be helped by the studios and television. Walt originally intended WDW and Epcot as a place of lifelong learning, which I believe is why the Carousel of Progress matters. It sort of explains the background in Walt's thinking that evolved to a place (EPCOT) that forever encouraged and celebrated innovations.

With ABC and the studios nearby, I do not understand why Discovery-Channel-type programs could not be developed and broadcast live from EPCOT. A program such as "The EPCOT World of Discovery" could be fun and at once achieve the following:

(1) Honor Walt's legacy of learning programs (with animals or science or world cultures showcased),

(2) Keep the EPCOT name out front (just like he did for with the original "Disneyland" program that was broadcast from Disneyland or his studio), and thus help promote it,

and

(3) Keep EPCOT fresh, with a new exciting thing to do. Perhaps a daily afternoon program would work, or even a weekly prime time or Saturday morning program.

Which brings me to something else:

I see absolutely no reason why more daily, live-action shows, especially children's shows, cannot be produced there. The studios often sit unused or used by others. Nickelodeon and Animal Planet broadcast daily from Universal and give children something to look forward to. Whey Disney doesn't do that with the Disney Channel or ABC any more confounds me. The last incarnation of the Mickey Mouse Club has famous alumni, so it would seem that even MMC could have a guaranteed audience and be a daily commercial.

I think that, as it stands now, people have no vision of WDW as anything other than an expensive vacation. To get back to Glens' understanding of the dream of WDW, I think the television components have to help tell the story and build anticipation, just as they did in Walt's day.
 

Chad

New Member
Families are all different.
What thrills one person may not thrill another. I have seen plenty of little kids, 6-9 year olds go on Tower of Terror and love it death (no pun intended.) my own 7 year old cousin being one of them. Anyone who claims that Tower of Terror is an Aesthetically pleasing free-fall ride is insane. It was completelty designed and built by the imagineers, the elevator system invented and patented by the Imagineers, and I'll defend it to the death. I have never seen a free-fall ride that is anything like tower of terror, it combines the nostalgic fun of a dark ride with the thrill of a free-fall. Have you EVER seen a free-fall ride that is inside a building? more over, one that moves horizontaly? If you want to get picky, then Pirates of the caribean is 'Just another water ride" that has details in it. And "Peter pan" is just like that carny ride I went on at the local fair, only it had disney charecters in it. I have been very proud of Disney's attraction choices. When you get to the bottom line, it comes to this: It's very hard to please all the people all the time. Disney, instead of trying to make attractions that will appeal to everone, makes attractions for different people. Thrill rides for the thrill seekers, fun family rides for children and the young at heart, etc..you could go on clasifying the attractions.

And about Roy...Just remember, he was the financial side of the Disney Duo, and I don't think that the kind of imagination and spark for life that Walt had was a family trait..Walt was one of a kind.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
Definitely, definitely, definitely. They need to build thrill rides like Tower of Terror. Please realize, even walt saw the need for a good thrill ride. I've seen people of every age on the Tower of Terror. Walt built The Matterhorn, so he knew you needed some. Disney would be alienating a very large crowd without them (just look at the lines these rides generate). I think the Tower of Terror is Imagineering at its best. There is not one square centimeter of that building or the queue line that Imagineers did not completely plan and engineer. The ride system, itself, is extremely imaginative and you DEFINITELY get the disney feel through and through on this ride. You feel like you are truly in an old hotel and not in some amusement park. And all the little cards and wine glasses in the lobby...it's all planned by imagineers. Rock 'n' Roller Coaster has a little less theming...that was when the cuts started flowing in. I think Dinosaur also has the disney "feel"...the boarding station is highly themed and the ride itself is very kewl (if only they would turn the audio down a bit...) Building unthemed attractions is very new for disney. I question the logic in building Primeval Whirl! outside...in a place where there are thunderstorms all summer...how annoying is it waiting in line for a ride and then hearing they have to close it...but...if this is a stepping stone to a highly themed Beastly Kingdom, then I'll go along with it and ride the rides
 
Originally posted by DogsRule!
Definitely, definitely, definitely. They need to build thrill rides like Tower of Terror. Disney would be alienating a very large crowd without them (just look at the lines these rides generate).


Have you seen the ride lines for Dinosaur, Test Track and RnR lately? The fact is that they just don't exist!!!! Your thinking could not be more wrong! Disney will quickly go the way of the wind if it becomes nothing more than a souped up six flags! Closing CoP is a major disaster to Disney. It's interesting how the DISNEY company wants to move further and further away from the things and experiences that made Disney what it is (or was?). Its a very sad day when Disney neglects its theme parks and animation studios---I think that Disney is and will continue to pay for such neglection in the same way that it is seeing it now---fewer and fewer people going or wanting to go to WDW. In the end it means fewer and fewer dollars for Disney. If you want to make money you've got to spend money. Apparently Eisner has blinders to this business maxim---one that Walt Disney had absolutely no problem with (hence why he was such a wealthy and imaginative guy). It's time for Eisner to go---NOW! (Before there's nothing left to save!) except maybe fox family channel and a couple of worthless California sports teams---whoopeee! :brick: :mad: :brick:
 

Fievel

RunDisney Addict
The lines for every ride right now are non-existant. Please take this into consideration. Park attendance....well...it sucks right now.
 

prberk

Well-Known Member
Tower good

I just realized that my last post may have made it seem that I do not like the Tower and other thrill rides. I think that they are great (especially the well-themed Tower and RnR), but I think that they are not the central or lasting element of the "Disney magic." It is the total package; but its nucleus is the incentive to dream, and I think that Walt's original rides and his focus on progress and futurism was the key.

Walt himself planned the Magic Kingdom to be the moneymaker that would support his vision of EPCOT. So to stay true to the mission, I believe WDW is best serviced by both entertaining and engaging the masses while provided honest input for learning and imagination.

And I still think that television and other technologies were always an important part of keeping this healthy myth alive. So, once again I submit that television would be helpful here in a continuous, live, truly informative (as opposed to simply entertaining) presence. Just like Walt did it!!! (But updated, as he would have wanted ... for his place "that will never be completed.")
 

glens

New Member
Original Poster
I was at WDW from Oct. 21-27 and the crowds were light. However, the only real lines I ever experienced were at Test Track, Big Thunder Mountain and stuff like The Many Adventures of Winnie The Pooh (high child concentration). Otherwise, lines were small to nonexistent. Some lines would build up quickly but dissipate within 20-30 min.
I understand that it's a bit hypocritical to knock rides such as Tower Of Terror or Rock N Rollercoaster while such classics as Space Mountain and Thunder Mtn. have endured for so long -- maybe I'm just one of the crusty, older folks who remember first hand the WDW of the 70s and today. I have just noticed that over the past 5 years or so, there has been a greater emphasis to merely "thrill" people rather than tickle their imagination the way a "boat ride" like Pirates Of The Caribbean does, or invite the the guest into a more imaginitive world that carries the stamp of innovation that only Disney can produce. You find yourself waiting for the drop, or a ride's climax moreso than anything else it seems. But, to contrast, a big thumbs up to Winnie The Pooh -- that's a fantastic attraction! And I have high hopes for the Space attraction at EPCOT -- it sounds like it's going to be a gem!
Prberk touches on some great ideas that are more about the larger corporate vision and marketing of the company. But I totally agree with the ideas. Effective cross promotion seems to be a more cumbersome and daunting task these days that it was years ago. As a kid I watched The Wonderful World of Disney and saw episodes of Winnie The Pooh and such, and the program featured a picture of Cinderella's castle in the credits -- a good 1-2 punch. When I visited WDW, to me, it was the magic of Disney television programming, movies, animation and innovation brought to life. Today, to see even a mention of the parks on the Disney channel is a rare occurence. And the ideas for live, educational programming are endless. Heck, just look at the popularity of Animal Planet -- why can't Animal Kingdom be promoted through TV programming in the same style? The Birds of Flight show in Asia should be televised!

I think a lot of the disconnect we get so passionate about was summed up to me when my tour guide told me that many younger people who visit the parks -- American visitors -- would say to her that they didn't know/believe that a man named Walt Disney ever even existed. How sad is that?
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
do realize that disney would not be in business w/o its thrill rides. Having none of them would alienate as big a crowd as having nothing like...well...all of Fantasyland. It would be a big loss of money. I mean...imagine Magic Kingdom w/o the mountains. It simply would not work. That is not to say I am against non-thrill rides or that I am for disney's recent attempts to build only thrill rides. They need a balance. As for your comment about lines being short for thrill rides, I HIGHLY doubt the guest population has left the e-rides to swarm Snow White's Scary Adventures...the short lines are due to:
1) the almost cliché "economic slowdown"
2) Sept. 11th
3) The fact that it is the end of October
 

Chad

New Member
That is extremely sad. And so is the Disney Channal now. Mickey mouse doesn't even appear in it, nor do many disney charecters.

But I jumped on this because of the ride-knockin' that was going on. Times have changed. People used to be amazed with the Audio-animitronics. They wanted to go see singing birds. But I've seen birds like that that you can pick up at the store infront of cracker barrel. It's not new. And it seems that only people like us who are truly into the disney magic, appreciate these small things. Everyone one else wants to be amazed with something new, something bright, and something fast. Or whole culture is surrounded by speed. Have a bad life? Well, cable internet will make it better, it's so fast...Have a headache? Here, take some of these pills, it'll make the pain go away real fast, but screw your body chemistry up. We all want to be presented with something that gives us satisfaction immedietly. Winnie the Pooh achieves this, it doesn't take much thinking in that ride to enjoy it, bright colors, happiness. (heck the main charecter is as a smart as stump, no offense pooh.) Same with Pirates of the carribean and the majority of the other rides there. But some of them require you to think, to use your imagination and pretend to be somewhere else. Carousel Of Progress required this, and some others still, require you to actually enjoying learning, Like Hall of presidents, which would be on the chopping next if the terrorist attacks hadn't made Patriotism fashionable. The reason thrill rides work, is because it taps into the primative sense of fear, which we are all wired to respond to. Americans ecspecially want everything to be simple and enjoyable. And thats what disney is trying to give them.

Thedisneyfan, please. The parks are empty. The rides you mentioned allways have long lines during regular times (when planes aren't crashing into buildings) I have never seen Rock n' roller coaster with under a 30 mintue wait. And also consider that These rides also process people very quickly, are able to get them through the line fast, because they are specially designed for the high volume of people. And I'm sure that on your last trip, you had to completely skip the carousel of progress and the enchanted tiki rooms because the lines were just overcrowded with people.

I am in no way saying that I like the current decisions, by the way, I'm just saying that I can understand why they are happening. What I can't understand, and can't agree with is the reason why they are not being replaced. That is just shameful.
 

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