Avatar - This is what I'm saying

squidward

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Not to (or maybe to) beat a dead horse, this rather long article, is EXACTLY what I, and many others, have been saying about Avatarland.

Five Years Ago, 'Avatar' Grossed $2.7 Billion But Left No Pop Culture Footprint

Scott Mendelson

James Cameron’s Avatar defied the skeptics and became the highest-grossing film of all time, but five years later it is all but forgotten in the pop culture landscape.

Today is the fifth anniversary of the theatrical release of James Cameron’s 3D action spectacular. Avatar earned rave reviews, went on to become by far the highest-grossing movie of all time, and won several Oscars. It then almost immediately vanished from the popular zeitgeist, leaving almost no pop culture impact to speak of. It did not inspire a passionate following, or a deluge of multimedia spin-offs that has kept the brand alive over the last five years. Few today will even admit to liking it, and its overall effect on the culture at large is basically non-existent. It came, it crushed all long-term box office records, and it vanished almost without a trace.

  • James Cameron’s Avatar was the exact opposite of a sure thing. Even with the famously grandiose auteur returning to cinemas 12 years after sailing Titanic to the top of the box office record books and winning 11 Oscars, the film itself was something of a question mark. Cameron had been teasing the film for a decade, promising something that would (my words) change cinema forever and/or make your face melt off and burn a hole through the floor below you. For a decade, Avatar was just a notion, it was just something that Cameron was working on in between trips to the bottom of the sea to explore the actual wreckage of the Titanic. Almost nothing was known about the picture until mid-August 2009 when the first teaser dropped, at which point we discovered that the film was basically a variation on the likes of (deep breath) Fern Gully: The Last Rain Forest, Pocahontas, Atlantis: The Lost Empire, Dances With Wolves, The Last Samurai, and/or Battle for Terra.



    The initial previews were visually spectacular, especially if you saw them on the so-called Avatar Day, when Fox rented out IMAX theaters around the country for a 17-minute sneak preview (I did, and it was the most efficiently run studio event I have ever been to). Sure the footage looked neat and the 3D looked pretty remarkable for a live-action film, but the giant blue creatures were easy fodder for mockery and the film’s somewhat well-worn plot left us underwhelmed in terms of the whole “revolutionizing cinema” thing. But we had forgotten the first rule of film punditry: Never bet against James Cameron.

    Titanic underwent equally dismissive pre-release hand-wringing, but once critics actually saw the film, well, we all know what happened seventeen Decembers ago. Terminator 2: Judgment Day was the first film to cost $100 million and ended up being the third-biggest global grosser ($519m in 1991) of all-time behind E.T.: The Extra Terrestrial and Star Wars at the time. And it was the case for Avatar as well. It didn’t have the luxury of being based on a preexisting property (Sherlock Holmes felt like the easy lock for Christmas box office supremacy), and it was burdened with reports that wildly exaggerated its production and marketing costs so as to be able to crow that 20th Century Fox had spent $500 million on the picture. But Cameron had been down this road before.

    But if we can carp about the mezzo-mezzo marketing materials, the seeming rush to proclaim Cameron as an emperor lacking clothes, or even Fox’s apparent lack of confidence by scheduling Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeakquel a week later as a safety net, we must admit that Fox had a secret weapon: the movie itself. The film screened for critics on December 10th, and I attended the second (IMAX) screening on December 14th, just days before the film’s December 18th theatrical release. At that point, the word was out that the film was, to use my sophisticated critical jargon, f****** spectacular.

    Yes the plot was a little well-worn and no the script wasn’t full of quotable Sorkin/Tarantino-esque dialogue, but the 3D was truly eye-popping, Zoe Saldana gave what is still one of the great motion-capture performances alongside Sam Worthington, and the movie just-plain worked like gangbusters. It didn’t quite revolutionize cinema as we know it, but the hype was more or less real. But would rave reviews be enough to turn the tide? Heck, King Kong, which opened on the same weekend in 2005, actually suffered due to overly rave reviews since it had pundits thinking it would actually challenge Titanic for similar box office and Oscar glory. Fox and company held their breath over opening weekend. Avatar rode the wave of buzz and weathered a brutal snow storm to open with $77 million, which was and still is the largest opening weekend of all-time for a “not based on anything” motion picture.



    http://www.forbes.com/pictures/fimi45ehhff/hollywoods-most-overpai/
    But opening weekends are about marketing and pre-release interest, the rest of the theatrical run is generally about the movie. Audiences having been knocked out by what they saw, in terms of the 3D, in terms of the visually glorious Pandora , and yes in terms of the primal “indigenous people beat back murderous invaders with the help of a turncoat member of the enemy” story that explicitly referenced a decade of post-9/11 imperialistic warfare. I talk a lot about not giving away the game in the marketing campaign can boost positive word-of-mouth since it will make the film’s real joys appear to be more of a discovery for moviegoers, and Avatar fit the bill. Like Jurassic Park in 1993, no one quite got how visually stunning Avatar was going to look, and quite a few of them came back for seconds. Well, this is where those who grew up in the late 90’s following this stuff got a jolt of déjà vu.

    I distinctly remember the excitement in the air as the opening weekend of Titanic gave way to obscenely positive word of mouth leading into the Christmas season, and I honestly felt the same kind of heat this time around. I remember, as Avatar went from a $24 million Sunday to $16m single-day grosses for Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, thinking out loud “This can’t be happening again, can it? He can’t have done this twice in a row, right?” But history indeed repeated itself as James Cameron’s sci-fi 3D opus dropped about 1.5% on its second weekend to earn $75.6m over the Christmas weekend. Not to be outdone, Sherlock Holmes earned $62m that weekend while Fox’s “safety net” Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeakquel debuted with $47m over what is still the single-biggest box office weekend on record. Avatar’s second weekend gross of $75.1 million was eventually supplanted by The Avengers ($106m off a $207m weekend debut), but Avatar still holds the record for the biggest gross for weekends 3 ($69m), 4 ($50m), 5 ($42m), 6 ($34m), and 7 ($31m). Guess what movie still holds the record for weekends 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12.

    Avatar crossed $1 billion by the end of its third weekend and topped Titanic‘s $1.8b worldwide cume, or what I used to call the ’Joe DiMaggio 56-game hitting streak’ of box office records, in just 38 days. It went on to earn $760m domestic (compared to Titanic’s $600m haul in 1997/1998, not counting the 2012 3D reissue) and a stunning $2.7b worldwide, topping the (at the time) $1.8b worldwide cume of Titanic by 50%. Even five years later, there are only 22 films that have grossed even half of Avatar’s final $760m domestic cume. Even five years later, only Titanic and The Avengers have earned half of Avatar’s $2.7b gross while just 30 films have earned a third of that worldwide. Avatar is the highest grossing film of all time by such a margin that we may not see anything approach its global cume for a very long time, if ever. Yet for all intents and purposes, the film is all-but-forgotten.

    It did not become a cultural touchstone in any real sense. Kids don’t play Avatar on the playground nor with action figures in their homes. There is little-if-any Avatar-themed merchandise in any given store. Most general moviegoers couldn’t tell you the name of a single character from the film, nor could they name any of the actors who appeared in it. Even its strong showing at the Oscars hurt the film, as the narrative turned into “mean and scary James Cameron” against “weak and helpless Kathryn Bigelow” as if the former Ms. James Cameron needed any sympathy votes as she went on to become the first female Best Director winner for The Hurt Locker. Avatar didn’t inspire a legion of would-be Avatar rip-offs, save perhaps for Walt Disney DIS -0.70%’s disastrous John Carter. It didn’t set the mold for anything that followed save its use of 3D which turned the post-conversion tool into a valuable way to boost box office overseas.

    If Avatar has any legacy at all, it is by normalizing and/or incentivizing studios to release their biggest would-be tent poles with some kind of 3D modification in order to charge more money for tickets. That’s obviously not necessarily a positive thing, as it led to a few years when seemingly every big film was artistically compromised by a half-hearted or rushed 3D conversion for the sake of a ticket up-charge. That’s less of an issue in America, although it remains a driving factor of international box office today. James Cameron wanted to show the world how great 3D could be, and Hollywood responded by showing us how terrible it could be too. Despite a pretty swift case of blockbuster backlash, whereby pundits quickly attributed the film’s box office success entirely to the 3D effects, I still think it’s a pretty fantastic adventure film. The characters are simple but primal, and the storytelling is lean and efficient even while running nearly three hours. Avatar was arguably the right film at the right time, with a potent anti-imperialism message that came about just as America was waking up from its post-9/11 stupor and the rest of the world was more-than-ready to cheer a film where murderous private armies were violently defeated and driven away by impassioned indigenous people.

    But it was basically a historical cinematic footnote not a year later, with no real pop culture footprint beyond its record-setting box office and groundbreaking 3D. What’s sadder than what Avatar was remembered for (very little) is what it wasn’t remembered for. The positive lessons of Avatar’s success, an original story that resonated on a narrative and socially-topical level with truly eye-popping visuals being delivered by an auteur at the top of his game that touched the entire world for a brief period, were forgotten in favor of “everything must be 3D.” Avatar was not the first mega-blockbuster where Hollywood learned all of the wrong lessons (examples: nearly every other blockbuster ever made). But considering how big a deal it was for a brief period in time, it is all the more odd that exists solely as “that 3D movie that made a bunch of money.”

    Aside from arguably cementing IMAX as the go-to destination for the biggest of big blockbuster movies (just over a year after they expanded via the digital IMAX screens) and kickstarting a mad dash for live-action 3D, Avatar didn’t really change the industry in any real way, for better or worse, and its seemingly franchise-ready world didn’t really go beyond the single initial film. For the moment, Avatar is a footnote in cinematic history. I’ve seen the film once in IMAX 3D, once on 2D blu-ray, and I caught the third act on an airplane last year, and I can speak with some authority that the film still holds up. But even with James Cameron swearing that Avatar 2, 3, and 4 will “make you s*** yourself with your mouth wide open” (challenge accepted) and Walt Disney tentatively planning for “Avatar Land” in various parts of their theme parks, it would seem that the chance for Avatar to be the Star Wars of its generation, or really the anything of its generation, came and went five years ago.

    That’s okay of course. A great blockbuster movie can just be a great blockbuster movie without capturing the lunchbox market. And considering how often James Cameron actually lives up to his own hype, I am incredibly excited to see what he has in store for our next trip(s) to Pandora. The odd thing is that, despite the fact that Avatar grossed $2.7 billion worldwide, I might be the only one who still cares.
 

DarthVader

Sith Lord
Yup, it was a visually stunning movie, that surprisingly (to me at least) made a gazillion dollars. Yet we don't really have any after effect from the movie. Star Wars has worked itself into our culture, but that was a unique circumstance that I doubt will ever be repeated. We also have other sci fi movies that seemed to work itself into pop culture in various forms including the Terminator (though the last movie was a bust), Star Trek, Aliens. Basically those that successfully built a franchise did so because of the effect on the culture. I wonder if Avatar can do that. In fact I'm skeptical if lightening can strike twice, i.e., the next movie will be as good as the first.
 

Glasgow

Well-Known Member
Maybe we're looking at this wrong - maybe the fact that there isn't a direct residual presence from the movie franchise is actually better in the long run because it may allow this version in AK to morph into it's own thing. People are always complaining that there isn't enough unique IP in the parks anymore and obviously that is because you don't have the instant marketing value with a new IP. Perhaps in this case, the fact that Avatar was a huge selling movie will bring in first time visitors but the fact that it's somewhat removed from popular culture will allow for more creative leniency and greater expandability without being tied to some canon. That's my glass-half-full view, anyway .. here's hoping.
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
In regards to the land currently being constructed at AK....The movies cultural impact will matter very little in the lands success.

What will matter is if they build a stunning environment and good attractions.

The stunning environment seems to be a lock at this point.

The quality of the attractions is still a bit up in the air, but my feeling are positive on that front so far.

The only thing Pandora will not really enjoy is that initial surge of a large fan base like we saw with Potter and most likely see with Star Wars. It will have to stand on its own merits.
 

sshindel

The Epcot Manifesto
Everyone, sing along with me:

If they build a top notch land with top notch attractions,
It wont matter if the film was ever popular
If they build a half-arsed land with half-arsed attractions,
No IP in the world will matter, it'll suck

Ok, so maybe it didn't rhyme and might make a terrible song. Better not quit my day job.
 

Atomicmickey

Well-Known Member
At this point, I don't really get threads like this. No new info.

Is there a chance that they will stop construction? No.
Will it be rethemed as Beestlie Kingdomme? No.
Do we know that some people don't like Avatar? Yes.
Are some people going to boycott AK because of this? Who cares?
Are some people going to not ever go in the land because Blue Space Kitties? Good for you, all three of you. Power of the wallet!

Nothing to see, here, move along . . . . opening day approaches, reality is what it is, folks.
The land itself is gonna be cool. Go or don't go. I'll be there, not on opening day because CROWDS.
But I'll be there. And so will you.
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
At this point, I don't really get threads like this. No new info.

Is there a chance that they will stop construction? No.
Will it be rethemed as Beestlie Kingdomme? No.
Do we know that some people don't like Avatar? Yes.
Are some people going to boycott AK because of this? Who cares?
Are some people going to not ever go in the land because Blue Space Kitties? Good for you, all three of you. Power of the wallet!

Nothing to see, here, move along . . . . opening day approaches, reality is what it is, folks.
The land itself is gonna be cool. Go or don't go. I'll be there, not on opening day because CROWDS.
But I'll be there. And so will you.
65625610.jpg
 

flyerjab

Well-Known Member
We have now moved on to using a dead horse to beat a dead horse. The argument is tired. The popularity of the IP is irrelevant to the success of the land.

This is what matters as far as I can see it:

1. Being able to walk under the impressive structure of the floating mountains. I can't even imagine how awesome this is going to be the first time you experience it.
2. Being able to immerse yourself in a land that is beautiful by day, but takes on an entirely new identity at night. What other land - in ANY theme park - will boast a land that will have bioluminescent plant life throughout the entire landscape come to life after the sun sets. Ummm...that would be none.
3. Being able to see truly advanced AAs - most likely on the boat ride, that will use a newer ride mechanism (that hopefully will help keep us dry). I have faith that this boat ride, although not as long as Pirates, will be incredible in its level of detail and the number of AAs that are in it.
4. Being able to fly above the landscape of Pandora, a place even the most ardent haters of the movie still admit was viscerally beautiful masterpiece to look at on screen.
5. Other small touches that most likely haven't even been touched upon during any presentations or rumor leaks. In all honesty, most people now are only considering the main attractions of the expansion. None of us fully know the small details that are never discussed initially when a project of this magnitude is first introduced.
 

Atomicmickey

Well-Known Member
Doesnt the fact that Disney is building avatarland disprove the notion of no cultural footprint? Or the curently touring cirque du soleil show based on avatar

True dat. When Disney decided this was going to be made, they committed to CREATING a giant
cultural footprint. I guess an entire themed land, in the number one themed vacation destination in the world
is some sort of footprint.

Some of these things are forced on us, ya know. Sure, Frozen was good. Mostly "the song" was good. But look at what they've done with it.

If they so choose, and apparently they do choose, we will be Avatare-d into submission in a year or two. Including the new films coming out as well.
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
Iger was banking on the IP's financial success to bring that kind of success to the DAK land. He bet on getting another Potter. With Avatar being the highest grossing film ever, Iger was hoping for Potter sized crowds and merchandise sales. Neither of those is going to happen.
 

Biff215

Well-Known Member
Iger was banking on the IP's financial success to bring that kind of success to the DAK land. He bet on getting another Potter. With Avatar being the highest grossing film ever, Iger was hoping for Potter sized crowds and merchandise sales. Neither of those is going to happen.
I don't doubt Disney chose Avatar because they thought it would be successful, but what proof is there that they expected Potter-sized crowds and profit? And who's saying that can't happen if they do it right?

Iger has had his equivalent of Potter in his back pocket for a while now, and that's Star Wars. Crazy how quickly some discredit a concept before it even opens!
 

Atomicmickey

Well-Known Member
Yeah, Star Wars is the real Potter-Swatter. I dislike that term, because I am glad that
both exist. But in terms of scope and being a pop-culture match, yeah.

The thing with Avatar, for merch, and for food . . . it could be anything. And I'll bet it will be cool and unique.
Were I them, I'd play up the adventure-travel aspect, 'hello from Pandora' sort of thing. There will not be another
place where you'll feel so much as though you've visited another planet, as this one.

Again, no Cars-fan I, but CarsLAND, that's a different matter. I never wanted to leave. It's simply stunning to have
a themed environment at that scale and immersiveness. I didn't buy any Cars-merch, but . . . . almost! For me,
almost is unthinkable when it comes to Cars. And I ate there several times 'cause I just wanted to sit there.
And eat. Or whatever, it was awesome.
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
I don't doubt Disney chose Avatar because they thought it would be successful, but what proof is there that they expected Potter-sized crowds and profit? And who's saying that can't happen if they do it right?

Iger has had his equivalent of Potter in his back pocket for a while now, and that's Star Wars. Crazy how quickly some discredit a concept before it even opens!
I'm not attempting to discredit the project. Just sayin' that Iger tried to buy a pop culture phenomenon, and what he got was a box office phenomenon.

As far as the project itself, visually it will be jaw dropping. And I said just the other day over in the "Specifics" thread that I thought everybody was seriously underestimating the "Soarin' 2.0" attraction. It will be truly breathtaking. People will be saying "Disney out Disneyed Disney" with this project.
 

Biff215

Well-Known Member
I'm not attempting to discredit the project. Just sayin' that Iger tried to buy a pop culture phenomenon, and what he got was a box office phenomenon.

As far as the project itself, visually it will be jaw dropping. And I said just the other day over in the "Specifics" thread that I thought everybody was seriously underestimating the "Soarin' 2.0" attraction. It will be truly breathtaking. People will be saying "Disney out Disneyed Disney" with this project.
But you're also saying it won't draw huge crowds or merchandise sales? Seems to contradict your praise as this is what Disney does best. It's obviously too early to tell if either of us is right, but this idea that "Avatar is not Potter" will doom the land is just crazy.
 

Mouse Trap

Well-Known Member
I'm really not sure why it ever was a big deal Disney chose to create a themed land off an IP that has "no pop-cultural footprint".

How many rides at any Disney resort have no or never had a pop-culture footprint at the time of their creation? Maybe we need a history lesson and should look at what Disney used to do best. They could build rides that created pop culture footprints. Ever heard of Pirates? Haunted Mansion? Jungle Cruise? Small World? Hmmm...

Perhaps one day confused 12 year olds will be asking their parents to see that Avatar movie based off the Disney attraction.
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
But you're also saying it won't draw huge crowds or merchandise sales? Seems to contradict your praise as this is what Disney does best. It's obviously too early to tell if either of us is right, but this idea that "Avatar is not Potter" will doom the land is just crazy.
The land will draw all the crazy WDW fans that wet themselves with anticipation for anything Disney. You know, the ones that go to WDW 5 times a year anyway. And the half a dozen Avatar megafans from around the globe.

And they will sell more merchandise based on the fact that it is "Disney" than the fact it's "Avatar".
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
I'm really not sure why it ever was a big deal Disney chose to create a themed land off an IP that has "no pop-cultural footprint".

How many rides at any Disney resort have no or never had a pop-culture footprint at the time of their creation? Maybe we need a history lesson and should look at what Disney used to do best. They could build rides that created pop culture footprints. Ever heard of Pirates? Haunted Mansion? Jungle Cruise? Small World? Hmmm...

Perhaps one day confused 12 year olds will be asking their parents to see that Avatar movie based off the Disney attraction.
The land is bumping off a billion, let me repeat, ONE BILLION $$$$$. All of DAK 1.0 was $630 MILLION. Avatar better sell more than "I Survived A Banshee Ride" T Shirts.
 

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