Did the Revival Era end with Frozen II?
Did Raya and the Last Dragon begin the "Streaming Era"?
Did Raya and the Last Dragon begin the "Streaming Era"?
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Are we in the "Streaming Era" of Disney Feature Animation? Is the "Revival Era" finally finished?
- Thread starter Haymarket
- Start date
Disney Irish
Premium Member
Streaming has forever changed the landscape of Hollywood. Consumers now have more choice in how they want to consume their content including animation films from Disney. Some may try to deny it but its clear that streaming is here to stay.
So if one wants to call it the Era of Streaming or Streaming Era, that wouldn't be far off from the truth.
So if one wants to call it the Era of Streaming or Streaming Era, that wouldn't be far off from the truth.
Heppenheimer
Well-Known Member
The counter-argument is that Puss in Boots is doing quite well at the box office.
Streaming has complicated the business model for animated films, no doubt, but Disney hasn't helped themselves with the lesser quality of their last few films (Encanto being an exception that was doomed by the pandemic).
The "Disney Feature Animation" or "Pixar" names by themselves are no longer enough to get bodies in the theater. They need "event" films to re-establish their name.
Face it, Disney, you need a reset. Go back to the tried-and-true straight forward Fairy Tale. Not saying every animated film needs to be a fairy tale, and it doesn't even necessarily need to be based on a princess, or even Western European-based. But Disney clearly needs a course correction, and every successful period of Disney animation began with a Fairy Tale. Forget about the mythical "Modern Audience" you think you need to appeal to (this is just your own limited Hollywood echo-chamber), go back to your bread and butter, don't worry about ticking every "representation box" before you have a solid, fun story. But most important, re-establish your company name's association with joy and wonder.
Streaming has complicated the business model for animated films, no doubt, but Disney hasn't helped themselves with the lesser quality of their last few films (Encanto being an exception that was doomed by the pandemic).
The "Disney Feature Animation" or "Pixar" names by themselves are no longer enough to get bodies in the theater. They need "event" films to re-establish their name.
Face it, Disney, you need a reset. Go back to the tried-and-true straight forward Fairy Tale. Not saying every animated film needs to be a fairy tale, and it doesn't even necessarily need to be based on a princess, or even Western European-based. But Disney clearly needs a course correction, and every successful period of Disney animation began with a Fairy Tale. Forget about the mythical "Modern Audience" you think you need to appeal to (this is just your own limited Hollywood echo-chamber), go back to your bread and butter, don't worry about ticking every "representation box" before you have a solid, fun story. But most important, re-establish your company name's association with joy and wonder.
There definitely seems to have been some kind of switch/change in era since Frozen II. Some say it's still the "Revival Era," but how can a revival go on for fourteen/fifteen years (Princess and the Frog (2009) or Bolt (2008) supposedly started the Revival Era)?
I think this is spot-on. The "modern audience" is quite limited, and large international markets like China and Japan don't care a whit about "representation."
There are so many beautiful fairy tales out there, ready for quality contemporary retellings, and it's a shame they keep trying to come-up with often convoluted "original" stories that fall flat.
Bring back princesses and romantic love. Tangled was extraordinary.
On a personal note, if there's another East Asian protagonist, make her less like Mulan and Raya (yes, I know Raya is Southeast Asian-inspired as opposed to East Asian like Mulan), and more like Rapunzel in Tangled: an actual princess, fine-featured, feminine, and sweet—like, e.g., the "Korean" Snow White in Red Shoes and the Seven Dwarfs.
Snow White and Merlin from Red Shoes and the Seven Dwarfs
The "Girl Boss" thing is truly tired and played-out; it's no longer novel, clever, or "subverting expectations" for "modern audiences." It's become a hoary trope.
However, Disney's hubris is so monumental that I think they'll need several more huge failures to even begin to turn things around.
I think this is spot-on. The "modern audience" is quite limited, and large international markets like China and Japan don't care a whit about "representation."
There are so many beautiful fairy tales out there, ready for quality contemporary retellings, and it's a shame they keep trying to come-up with often convoluted "original" stories that fall flat.
Bring back princesses and romantic love. Tangled was extraordinary.
On a personal note, if there's another East Asian protagonist, make her less like Mulan and Raya (yes, I know Raya is Southeast Asian-inspired as opposed to East Asian like Mulan), and more like Rapunzel in Tangled: an actual princess, fine-featured, feminine, and sweet—like, e.g., the "Korean" Snow White in Red Shoes and the Seven Dwarfs.
Snow White and Merlin from Red Shoes and the Seven Dwarfs
The "Girl Boss" thing is truly tired and played-out; it's no longer novel, clever, or "subverting expectations" for "modern audiences." It's become a hoary trope.
However, Disney's hubris is so monumental that I think they'll need several more huge failures to even begin to turn things around.
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If done right… I believe streaming and theaters could benefit each other…release a movie in theaters try to extend the window to 90 days make what you can… then when it arrives at streaming it will have a higher profile due to advertisement…I feel as movies released straight to streaming don’t have as much recognition as when you go to theaters first
Ghost93
Well-Known Member
I think Raya and Encanto are just as good as the revival films, but COVID undercut their box office.
Lightyear and Strange World were mediocre movies that were also plagued by absurd culture war controversy.
Disney releasing Soul, Luca and Turning Red on Disney Plus FOR FREE severely hurt the Pixar brand, as it made the brand no longer seem like a "theatrical event" and instead "direct to video kids stuff." Those three Pixar originals were excellent, but, unfortunately will always be seen as lesser Pixar simply due to not having a Big Screen release.
Regardless of critical reviews, I really hope Disney doesn't give Wish a short theatrical window like it did for Encanto and Strange World. The short theatrical windows train audiences to wait for something to become free. And you can't do that when these movies cost $150-$200 million a piece.
Anyway, I would say we are in a different era from the Revival Era, but that's less due to the quality of the Disney movies themselves and more due to COVID and misguided release strategies.
In addition to COVID, it should be noted that this era is more diverse and inclusive than any other Disney Era:
1. Soul — Black leading man
2. Turning Red — Chinese Canadian female lead
3. Raya — Southeast Asian princess
4. Encanto — Colombian family with female leads
5. Lightyear — supporting lesbian and minority characters
6. Strange World — mixed race family, Black gay teen, female leaders, etc.
7. Wish — Afro-Latina princess
Lightyear and Strange World were mediocre movies that were also plagued by absurd culture war controversy.
Disney releasing Soul, Luca and Turning Red on Disney Plus FOR FREE severely hurt the Pixar brand, as it made the brand no longer seem like a "theatrical event" and instead "direct to video kids stuff." Those three Pixar originals were excellent, but, unfortunately will always be seen as lesser Pixar simply due to not having a Big Screen release.
Regardless of critical reviews, I really hope Disney doesn't give Wish a short theatrical window like it did for Encanto and Strange World. The short theatrical windows train audiences to wait for something to become free. And you can't do that when these movies cost $150-$200 million a piece.
Anyway, I would say we are in a different era from the Revival Era, but that's less due to the quality of the Disney movies themselves and more due to COVID and misguided release strategies.
In addition to COVID, it should be noted that this era is more diverse and inclusive than any other Disney Era:
1. Soul — Black leading man
2. Turning Red — Chinese Canadian female lead
3. Raya — Southeast Asian princess
4. Encanto — Colombian family with female leads
5. Lightyear — supporting lesbian and minority characters
6. Strange World — mixed race family, Black gay teen, female leaders, etc.
7. Wish — Afro-Latina princess
Miru
Well-Known Member
Even if I have watched Wish, I cannot say for certain whether the Revival is done. But for certain, Disney seem slightly more prone to including more varied art styles than before even if to non-stellar results. Further, I can safely say it seems there are far more haters and pundits, who even if it seems like they want them to get better, really simply want the company torn down, for good or for ill. That’s some of the biggest things, which is why we can call this era a “Gilded Age”.
For now WDAS does seem to have run out of original/new concepts to work with, given the only films I know are in the pipeline are sequels. And the larger Walt Disney Company being such a, well, BIG target for pundits and the media in general when it comes to industry coverage doesn't help. They're certainly not the only multimedia company that's been alienating creatives and overmilking established IP, but even Warner Bros. has had more box office and critical successes this year than they have. And none of those other companies are so family-focused. ("Won't somebody please think of the children?!?") I think this has contributed to the sour critical reception of Wish - several critics have noted it's hard to present a story of an underdog taking on The Powers That Be when Disney IS the Powers That Be, hoarding IP, freely rendering multiple shows and movies for Disney+ lost media by dropping them, keeping other films/shows that aren't problematic the way that Song of the South is in The Disney Vault, and leashing creativity to varying extents.
It's a weird era we're entering for Disney. They're not in nearly such bad financial and creative shape as they were at the turn of the 1980s, when virtually no one of note wanted to work with them, but at least they took more throw-it-at-the-wall, see-what-sticks chances then. How can they get back to that when they're under a much bigger spotlight and every move they make is scrutinized seven ways from Sunday?
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
Pedantic, I know, but “Latina” cannot be used of Iberia. It refers to American contexts only.
Disney Analyst
Well-Known Member
I would also add, especially with the way social media is now monetized, hate gets clicks. Rage machine gets clicks. Jumping on specific bandwagons / trends gets clicks, and it makes many, many people, a lot of money.
This is why you see some people tweet out some of the most absurd takes these days, they know it will get a lot of engagement, and it literally puts money in their pocket.
Ghost93
Well-Known Member
Early reports about Wish referred to Asha as Afro-Latina. My post was made well before we had more details about the film.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I thought I was responding to a new post. I have no idea how I got transported back to February!
ETA: I just worked out what happened: I thought the whole thread was new, so I didn’t bother checking the dates of any individual posts.
Miru
Well-Known Member
This… and this explanation is why we’re in what is now a “Gilded Age” for Disney. The “Gilded Age” started somewhere from WIR2 to Raya.
Vegas Disney Fan
Well-Known Member
I think TV sizes are hurting theaters more than streaming. Movies have only had a 3-6 month theatrical window (before the DVD/Blu-ray) for over a decade now, the big difference is we can now watch those movies on a massive screen in glorious 4K at home, the “big screen” advantage the theater used to have has been seriously diminished.
Before, even if you knew you’d buy the bluray in a couple months it was worth paying to watch it in the theater on a giant screen because it was so different from watching it on a 42” or 50” 1080p at home, now that TVs fill a wall it’s harder to justify paying extra to see it twice.
Before, even if you knew you’d buy the bluray in a couple months it was worth paying to watch it in the theater on a giant screen because it was so different from watching it on a 42” or 50” 1080p at home, now that TVs fill a wall it’s harder to justify paying extra to see it twice.
LSLS
Well-Known Member
See I don't think that's as big a deal. I think it's much more that it was "Well I'm going to have to spend $30 in 3 months anyways, lets just spend the extra $10 for the theater experience." Now it's "Well, I will get it for free (knowing it's not free per se, but I'm already paying for that service anyways) in a few months anyways, I'm not spending that $75."
I don't think I'd discount the fact the movies doing well right now are streaming on services that are a fraction of the subscribers that D+ has. Honestly it didn't even occur to me that Mario would be on Peacock til I saw it there one random day on the site. I also have no idea where Barbie will be streaming (and it's been what, 6 months at this point?). I fully know if I miss Wish, I'll see it around mid-late Feb on Disney+. I completely subscribe to the idea they have built this streaming era, and it's significantly affecting their box office.
Phroobar
Well-Known Member
It didn't affect Five Nights at Freddie's. It was released theatrically and to streaming at the same time. It still made more theatrically than anything Disney did. It was something people wanted to see. No one was asking for another Indiana Jones or live acttion Little Mermaid.
Miru
Well-Known Member
I feel like there are also some tone and visual commonalities to the “Gilded Era” films atop the diminishing trust in the company as a whole. Namely the massive refusal to kill villains, for example. There’s a tendency to attempt to break from the Revival art style but to non-stellar results.
Tha Realest
Well-Known Member
You can’t kill villains when no conventional ones exist
Miru
Well-Known Member
There is Wish for example though. Modern Disney marketing tends to lump in twist villains with conventional ones as well.