"Are parks putting too much risk in thrill rides?"

mpaul32001

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I read this article in the St Petersburg Times.....I think all of the cases in this article had to do with people not following rules....give me your input.




Are parks putting too much risk in thrill rides?


Every year millions of people flock to Walt Disney World, which touts itself as "The Happiest Celebration on Earth." But for a few families, it is a setting for tragedy.

A 9-year-old riding Pirates of the Caribbean has a thumb severed when it's pinned between two boats. A 4-year-old wanders off and drowns in the moat around Cinderella's Castle.

Now a 4-year-old boy has collapsed and died while riding Epcot's popular new ride, Mission: Space.

As the parents of Daudi Bamuwamye await the results of an autopsy, his death has raised questions about whether the pursuit of bigger thrills by the nation's amusement parks has led to bigger risks for the riders.

Amid growing competition for customers, park owners have begun building high-technology rides that are faster and wilder than before.

When theme park engineers design new rides like Mission: Space, "the goal is controlled fear," said Bill Avery, an Orlando ride safety consultant. "They want to take you to a psychological brink. Your mind thinks it's out of control, but it's not."

Still, some risk is involved.

From 1987 to mid 2004, 64 amusement park ride fatalities were documented by the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission.

Five years ago, for instance, William Pollack, 37, of St. Petersburg was midway through the Splash Mountain flume ride when he told friends he felt sick. The ride slowed and he climbed out of his seat. He tried to use the log-shaped boats to cross to the other side, possibly to an exit.

Then the ride started again. Pollack fell in the water, was hit by another boat and died.

Usually only the rare, deadly accidents make headlines. More frequent incidents involve back, leg, foot, head or hand injuries, which might give potential thrill-riders pause.

Ed Normand, an Orlando lawyer, has two suits pending against Universal's Islands of Adventure for clients who say they were injured while riding a flume ride called Dudley Do-Right's Ripsaw Falls. The ride ends with a 75-foot plunge at 50 mph.

Recent court filings by Universal indicate the park has been sued by eight other people who said they were injured on that same ride. Universal officials did not respond to a request for comment.

"There's no restraint system," said Normand, whose clients include a 6-year-old girl whose forehead was sliced open. "Then when you get hurt, they claim it's your fault for not holding on tight enough."

Normand has asked a judge to invoke a little-used state law that says if enough people are hurt by a product, it can be declared a public hazard.

"Maybe people shouldn't be getting on these rides, if they're that dangerous," he said.

Calculating risks

Since it opened in 2003, Mission: Space has boosted interest in Epcot, long considered the stodgy sibling of Disney's more popular parks. The 4-minute, 20-second ride simulates a flight to Mars using a centrifuge that spins 10 capsules at once. Each capsule seats four people. The G-forces on liftoff are more than double the normal force of gravity.

When amusement park designers plan new rides like Mission: Space, they start off with the concept that's supposed to make this one different from the rest - more thrilling, more amazing.

Then they start calculating how to build it.

"You start with the ride experience, then you go backward into the structure," said Ed Pribonic, former senior design manager for Disney's ride-building arm, Walt Disney Imagineering.

That includes figuring out what it does to riders.

"First they analyze what kind of forces would be exerted on the riders and compare that against the standards," Pribonic said.

The standards for amusement park rides are set by the American Society of Testing and Materials, which figures out requirements for everything from nuclear reactors to sports equipment. The list for amusement park rides, drawn up by industry insiders such as Pribonic, covers such minutiae as the height of guardrails and the maximum forces on a rider going up, down, left, right, backward and forward.

"The standards are really based upon assessing the level of risk," said Steve Elliott, a former Disney engineer who designed Space Mountain at Disneyland Paris. "We know we have some limitations in terms of G-forces to keep a ride safe."

More than 40 states, including Florida, have adopted those standards as law. But the standards don't cover everything, such as a minimum age for riders.

"That's a real gray area," Pribonic said.

On Mission: Space, Disney requires riders to be at least 44 inches tall. That was based on the best fit for the ride's restraints, said Disney spokeswoman Jacquee Polak.

Although he was 4, Daudi already was 46 inches tall, so he was allowed to ride.

"He didn't violate the riding requirements," Avery said. Given the intensity of the ride, though, "I think about my 4-year-old grandson, and I wouldn't ask him to do that."

While amusement park rides are built to accommodate customers who fit within the most common range of height and weight, often people climb aboard who are not average-sized.

Those people are "going to have a bad experience," Avery said. "A lot of people ride these rides and they get upset stomaches, headaches or bruises."

The standards also rely to some extent on riders exhibiting safe behavior.

"The rider has a lot of responsibility to know what he's getting into," Pribonic said.

That might not be good enough for some states.

Last week, the California Supreme Court ruled that amusement park rides are "common carriers" - a legal category that includes trains, elevators and ski lifts, meaning operators must provide the same degree of care and safety.

The ruling came in the case of a 23-year-old woman who suffered a brain hemorrhage and died after visiting Disneyland on her honeymoon. Her family blames her death on the violent shaking of the Indiana Jones thrill ride.

A dispute over safety

The "Imagineers" who dreamed up Mission: Space made sure it's different from more traditional Disney rides like It's a Small World.

It's the only one with airsickness bags.

To build it, in 1998 Disney hired a Pennsylvania company called Environmental Tectonics Corp. with expertise in creating flight simulators for the military and the space program.

But in 2001, Disney and Environmental Tectonics executives had a falling out over the $45-million contract. The dispute played out in federal court in 2003, where Environmental Tectonics accused Disney officials of blocking the company from doing crucial safety inspections before the ride's August 2003 opening.

Without those tests, Environmental Tectonics officials warned, "There are increased risks of injury to the public at large."

Hogwash, said Disney officials.

Disney's engineers are "some of the world's most experienced professionals in the area of ride safety," Mike Lentz, executive director of attractions development, said in an affidavit. They thoroughly went over the ride "noting potential hazards and the appropriate means of mitigation," he testified.

The final inspection was certified by an engineer, Susan Richardson, and the ride opened to the public. At the time, Richardson was "a Disney cast member," said company spokeswoman Polak.

Richardson, reached at home last week, declined to comment on how extensive her inspection was.

No state inspections

A new carnival ride must be inspected and approved by a state official, not an employee of the carnival. But Florida officials have long treated the big theme parks differently.

When state lawmakers passed a law regulating carnival rides in 1989, they exempted theme parks with more than 1,000 employees. That means Disney, Universal and Busch Gardens don't have to worry about the state Bureau of Fair Rides Inspection shutting down a ride because of safety concerns.

Four years ago, though, after a series of well-publicized theme- park accidents, the three companies signed an agreement with the state to file quarterly "occurrence reports" on any injuries or deaths.

Since then they have filed reports noting 55 complaints of injuries, illnesses or deaths, ranging from a broken arm on the Dr. Seuss carousel at Universal to a leg fracture at its Wet 'n Wild park.

The reports give no details other than date, time, ride, the age and gender of the rider and a brief note on the injury or illness. State officials do not follow up on the reports unless asked by the park.

"It's the fox guarding the henhouse," said Orlando lawyer Bruce Gibson, who has sued Disney and Universal over ride injuries.

Theme park officials say their safety inspectors are better qualified to examine their complex rides than the state's inspectors.

That may be, Gibson said, but "the fact of the matter is they're still employees of that company. They're not going to shut the ride down. . . . They shut one of those down and they lose a ton of revenue."

There is also no guarantee park officials won't omit some incidents from their reports. For instance, Normand pointed out, despite the number of lawsuits over Ripsaw Falls, Universal has reported only three injuries to the state from that ride.

Mission: Space, which opened in 2003, has been the subject of eight such "occurrence reports," more than any other Florida theme park ride.

Three of the reports concerned riders experiencing chest pains. One noted that a 40-year-old woman was taken to a hospital after fainting. Three listed nausea or "didn't feel well" as the problem. The most recent, before last week's death, was for a 50-year-old man who got dizzy and had an upset stomach.

Disney officials point out more than 8.6-million people have ridden the simulator without serious complaints.

State inspectors do make semiannual site visits, including Epcot about four months after Mission: Space opened. They talked with Disney's safety inspectors, looked over the ride and even tried it out.

"I thought it was a good ride," state inspector Paul Driggers said last week. "I enjoyed it."

Not everyone was so enthusiastic. Longtime theme park enthusiasts Rich and Carol Koster, who for 15 years have run an unofficial Web site for fellow fans called Disney Echo, tried it in 2003.

Afterward, Carol Koster said, "my head felt weird." Other fans logging onto their Web site have reported vomiting and dizziness, sometimes well after the ride ended.

Rich Koster says Disney should have spent its millions on a more family-friendly ride, even if it was less likely to draw away thrill- riders from Universal and other theme parks. And he's not going to let his 9-year-old on Mission: Space. Not yet, anyway.

"I now do not want my son riding that ride until we know it's safe," he said. "I think they ought to have an age restriction, in addition to a height restriction."

Times staff writers Matthew Waite and Alex Leary and researchers Caryn Baird and Carolyn Edds contributed to this report.
 

DisneyChik17

Well-Known Member
I don't think Disney and other parks can't say "you can't ride this until you 9" because some 9 year olds can handle it and some can't. I think they are trying to get parks to be responsible for a parents/gaurdians job. My mom would get on to me if I put my hand between the boats on PotC and severed my thumb, because that's a dumb thing to do. I guess people refuse to except responsibility for their screw-ups. :confused: It will always be a mystery as to why some parents don't say "don't do that" once in a while.
 

crazydaveh

Active Member
I am tired of all the speculation about the attractions and how safe they are. We know the reputable parks will never put any of their guests at risk. When I say reputable, I mean Disney, Universal, and the Busch parks.

I can say that some of the Six Flags and Paramount Parks have frightened me in my years, and they will do whatever to bring in people, but won't go as far with their safety as the above mentioned.

All park operators know that if something bad happens, it could be the end of the park due to lawsuits, loss of attendance = loss of income. It's a far stretch, but it could happen, so why would they put us in harm? They won't!

I know that when I go to any of the Florida parks, I'm safe. I check my life insurance policy if I go to SFOG or Carowinds.

I wish the government would get off the mouse's back with this. It's sad what happened, but it's rare that such an event happens at a quality built park! If the government takes control of accidents, attractions will close anytime someone stubs their toe getting on or off of it and will remain closed until a lengthy investigation is complete.
 

Thrawn

Account Suspended
From 1987 to mid 2004, 64 amusement park ride fatalities were documented by the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission.

64.

From: http://www.nh-dwi.com/caip-206.htm
71 people are killed each day in alcohol related accidents.

These media idiots need to stop trying to sensationalize things and start using common sense. How many millions of people have been on Disney attractions alone? 1.5 billion I would venture to guess (1 billion have been on the WDW monorail, so 1 billion might be low.) How many people have died on Disney attractions? 25 tops (way too high)

So,
25/1,500,000,000 over 50 years or
71/0,270,000,000 over a day

Which should we be more concerned about?

In case anyone is wondering, the alcohol related stat translates to 1,295,750 people over 50 years.

Nothing against alcohol, in fact I enjoy it. But media morons should worry about more pressing matters than the few theme park related deaths, and even fewer Disney related ones.
 

tigsmom

Well-Known Member
I can understand all the interest now (it happens everytime there is an incident), but LIFE is a risk; use your head, follow the ride instructions and you should be ok. Accidents do happen, but you can't walk around afraid of your shadow. I'll continue to visit and ride my favorite rides.
 

monorail_driver

New Member
Fixing grammar ... the writer of this article obviously don't know much about Disney
Walt Disney World, which touts itself as "The Happiest Celebration on Earth."
should read
Walt Disney World, which touts itself as part of "The Happiest Celebration on Earth."

Also, I was reading and it said the following:

Amid growing competition for customers, park owners have begun building high-technology rides that are faster and wilder than before

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I really hardly see any amusement parks, besides Disney, building high-technology rides ... I see them just putting up roller coasters, not really anything new to the public. Disney is the one that brings technology into new rides and attractions, and testing them for safety.

Think of this: there is at least one car accident everyday, does that prevent you from driving?

Okay, sure, you're paying to go to Disney or whatever other park, but you also pay for your car, gas, and insurance. I would say high-grade theme parks, like Universal and Disney, take all the necessary precautions, because not only do they depend on tourists, but the quality of their theme parks reflect on customers watching their movies and buying other merchandise.

I will also point out that ANYTHING can be dangerous ... from breathing to walking. Humans aren't perfect, so rides can't be perfect, whether it's the poor choice of the rider or at the fault of the ride [DO NOT READ: Mission: Space ride is at fault for death.]

I would also like to say one more thing about Disney: (I haven't been to the other great theme parks like Universal, so I can't speak for them.)

Disney will list warnings for all their rides, both in the park maps, at the ride's entrance, and in the queue, and especially on Mission: Space. They do care about guests, because with every accident that occurs, that could mean a major loss for the theme park.
 

Ralph Wiggum

Account Suspended
drowning in the moat (when did that happen?) and the idiot that tried to get off of SM have nothing to do with the incident. I hate the St. Pete Times. 2 G's doesn't constitute a thrill ride. this is just litigious bullcrap and attorneys going after the pockets of the big theme parks. You're safer on ANY attraction in Florida versus the flight down and the drive on I-4 to the parks.
 

RnRJoe6114

Member
It's all about following safety rules, which i guess the age limit make sense, sort of, because they must be old enough to understand these rules, because if they don't, It's a Small World could be as dangerous as Tower of Terror or any other thrill ride.
 

HauntedPirate

Park nostalgist
Premium Member
I can't emphasize this enough - it is the PARENTS' responsibility to know if their child/children should ride a particular ride, not the parks'. I don't know of a single 4 year old who should be riding M:S.

The absolute LAST thing we need is some kind of government oversight of rides, as has been mentioned. It is NOT the government's job to protect idiots from themselves, although many think this is the case. If a particular theme park suffers from poor quality rides, or even dangerous rides, the free markets/paying public will let them know quickly what is acceptable and what isn't. COMMON SENSE is something that is sorely lacking in today's society, and more government intrusion into people's lives makes the situation worse. When you have to stop and think, "Gee, is this steaming cup of coffee hot?", or "Should I put this hair dryer into the bathtub while I'm in it?", it's time to take a step or two back and figure out the root of the problem and stop caretaking.

Apologies, I do not intend to offend anyone, but things like "government oversight is demanded for theme park rides!" really get my blood boiling.
 

Epcot82Guy

Well-Known Member
This whole thing is getting insane. It really shows the fact that "a person is a smart, rational being; people are stupid, sensational, chatoic followers that are skiddish at any sense of danger." I really think this whole thing could be avoided if people stopped to think what they are getting onto! I love hearing arguments about a person expecting to be safe at a theme park. If that is true, I would highly suggest everyone moving to Lake Buena Vista for a permanent residence. I think Thrawn points out some great things. The numbers are VERY low. I will guarantee you more people die a day on I-4 than will at Disney in a year.

Just some observations of Disney vs. the Real World mentalities:

1. Would a person be considered "unaware" if he/she tried to recklessly jump into a moving motor vehicle?
Real World - of course not. That would be a dangerous activity that should be done with care.
Disney - That's Haunted Mansion, TTA, etc., so naturally a person should be able to do cartwheels into the car and still expect to be safe, right?

2. If a person stood up in a Convertible while driving through a tunnel, fell out, and was hit by another car, would it be the other drivers' fault?
Real World - likely not (or at least mitigated in some way). Standing up in a moving vehicle is extremely dangerous.
Disney - Splash speaks for itself.

I know these are a bit extreme, and a theme park does take some additional responsibility since dangers are often masked or hidden and simply not on display. However, that does not excuse riders, and especially parents, from understanding what they are dealing with. These attractions aren't shows. They are large pieces of machinery with many moving parts and mechanisms. I suggest all parents to look at these as you would a car or crane or escalator. Warnings are there for a reason. Granted, that is a Catch 22 in that more warnings = more desensitization. However, that is a reflection on society, not the company. Disney did its job here. The warnings are OBVIOUS and much more abundant than usual. This is not the brief, one sign warning like Space Mountain or RnRC. I really get sick of the victimization society sees. This is a HUGE tragedy as is any death, but I don't think anything is different or unique because it happened on a large piece of machinery that is highly themed with sets and music vs. a car accident or other mechanical situation outside of this "non-real world." The more unique it is considered, the less people will start realizing what they are dealing with. These can be incredibly fun, great things, but they are still machines and carry some element of intensity and danger. That's a necessary trade-off.
 

CAPTAIN HOOK

Well-Known Member
An "accident" at any of the Disney parks will sell newspapers as it is "family orientated" The thrill rides at WDW are tame compared to alot of the rides I've been on / heard about - its the word "Disney" that makes it sensational. Disney is controlled by the same legislation as every other US theme park.
As for four year olds riding M:S and wandering off and drowning - Their parents / guardians should be looking after their interests and welfare - bet the media didn't have a go at them
 
The St. Petersburg Times article, along with the majority of media coverage concerning the death at Mission: SPACE, is nothing more than sensational journalism.

The article talks about numerous deaths but show me how they're Disney's fault. The guy who climbed out of the Splash Mountain boat? Um, if you're dumb enough to even think of something like that then you don’t even deserve to be admitted into the park to begin with. The kid who lost a finger? Again, don't they insist that you keep your hands inside the boat at all times?

The fact of the matter is that the attractions built are safe as long as you use some common sense and follow the guidelines established by Disney.
 

abe_bb

New Member
I specifically like the part about 64 deaths between 1987 to mid 2004. And that was ALL theme parks, not just disney.

All in all, it is the fault of the population. (not individuals).

There is a general beleif that parents shouldn't parent anymore. Theme parks should make the decision about rides for the parents.

The same thing has already happened at local playgrounds. Anyone else remember the old playgrounds we used to have? 10 foot high metal slights covered in rust, and you could fry an egg on them on a summer day? Metal bar climbing toys that were in a box or pyramid shape, and didn't have any "platforms"? if you fell, you would fall 15 feet into sand or woodchips? Jungle Gyms made of wood, all splintery and nice?

Now all of those (in our area at least) ahve been replaced with small, plastic toys that aren't nearly as fun as the old ones... except for one old covered slide that is built into the side of a hill, that one is still there and still fun :)

They are trying to make the same thing happen at theme parks - if it is remotely dangerous, replace it with something else.

Instead of mission space, we will have an IASW clone, only with dancing martian dolls :)

As long as the parks take all necessary precautions (which I beleive Disney at least has), then the rest is left up to the parents.

Mission space wasn't meant for little children, but what would make parents more angry? To tell them "here are the risks it is your choice" or to say "only age x and above"?
 

CaliSurfer182

New Member
HauntedPirate said:
I can't emphasize this enough - it is the PARENTS' responsibility to know if their child/children should ride a particular ride, not the parks'. I don't know of a single 4 year old who should be riding M:S.


This is a great point that some how only seems to end up being repeated on this website.
 

CaliSurfer182

New Member
Individuals need to start taking responsibility for their actions and for the actions of those they are responsible/accountable for. If people are allowed to keep sloughing off their responsibilities then we will all end up living in padded rooms, eating/drinking puree fruits and vegetables, and listening to elevator music.
 

tazhughes

Member
monorail_driver said:
Fixing grammar ... the writer of this article obviously don't know much about Disney

:lol: :lol: :lol:

:cry:

I don't whether to laugh or cry about a post that begins with "Fixing Grammar" and then follows with "the writer of this article obviously don't know much about Disney". Outside of a Neville Brothers song don't know much is very poor grammar.

As far as the article goes, what a waste of ink. Lawyers like the ones quoted give the profession a very bad public image.
 

totodog

Member
What I find interesting about this article is it poses a question "Are parks putting too much risk in thrill rides?" then it proceeds to give two examples that have nothing to do with thrill rides and have little to no 'risk'.

"A 9-year-old riding Pirates of the Caribbean has a thumb severed when it's pinned between two boats. A 4-year-old wanders off and drowns in the moat around Cinderella's Castle."

I would hardly call Pirates a 'thrill' ride nor would I associate a lot of risk. I child wandering off and drowning in water could happen (and often does) anywhere has nothing to do with theme parks whatsoever.

It's all simply about trying to make Disney look bad.
 

Disneyfan1981

Active Member
Oh Jeez....

Accidents happen. Nothing is full proof. You can slip in your own home and kill yourself. Disney is a place to go and feel like a kid again and share the magic with friends and family. I put my trust into Disney and am well aware that sometimes things do happen. BUT one shouldn't forget that when looking at totals the amount of rider participation in those accidents like getting out of a moving ride for example weighs heavily on reducing the safety factor. What happened on Mission: SPACE was a sad event and a lot of finger pointing and "should have" "would haves" can be done but what it comes down to is that this is an unfortunate accident that hasn't even be proven to be Disney's fault yet and the press should stop trying to crucify the park over it.
 

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