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MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
I highly recommend this YT channel if you want to get into the weeds of pronunciation and vowel shilfts...

 

Disgruntled Walt

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
I highly recommend this YT channel if you want to get into the weeds of pronunciation and vowel shilfts...

I was just watching his video about the Pope's accent!
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
I highly recommend this YT channel if you want to get into the weeds of pronunciation and vowel shilfts...

An excellent channel indeed! I've watched many of his videos.
 

Castle Cake Apologist

Well-Known Member
Just because you (sort of) asked, I live in the US and am using Merriam-Webster as my main reference point, though other dictionaries agree with it. The symbol you’re referring to represents the sound of E in the word “cent”, which isn’t the sound I’m taking about; I’m talking about the vowel of the final syllable of “recent” (when that vowel is sounded at all).

I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone, because "cent" and the ending of "recent" are 100% pronounced the same way.
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
There is a tendency in English for many of its dialects to turn any 'short' and unstressed vowel into a "schwa e."

And so, people wind up thinking that's the "correct" way to pronounce it. And indeed, for some words, the preponderance of everyone using the schwa makes it the standard pronunciation, such as the 'o' and the 'a' in 'woman.'

However, people don't notice that in more formal speech, such as when giving a... um... speech, speakers of English will often un-schwa the vowel and pronounce it the way they were taught back in elementary school what those vowels should sound like.

In my region of the U.S., most people pronounce "milk" as if it rhymes with "elk" and not "silk."

Personally, I pronounce "complement" and "compliment" differently rather than schwa-ing up the "e" and the "i."

And don't get me started on how often "our" gets pronounced as "are." But only in fast, colloquial conversation. Someone at a podium giving a speech will almost certainly pronounce it like it was "hour."

"Now is the time of are *hour* discontent made glorious summer by this son of York."
"Are Father, who art in heaven..."

IOW, often there are formal and informal pronunciations of words. Both are correct in their context.
Thanks for the lesson, professor.

:D
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
You pronounce them differently? How?

They're homophones!
Do you pronounce 'him' and 'hem' the same?

When people shift unstressed 'short' vowels to the schwa-E, then yes, they are homophones.

When you don't shift to the schwa-E, then they're not homophones.

But, even when they're pronounced differently, people will hear them the same. Just like people in the greater NYC area don't 'hear' that they're "dawg" and "cawfee" is pronounced differently by Middle America. They believe they're pronouncing it the same until you get them to try to rhyme 'dog' with 'log' or 'frog.'

Anyhoo, to bring this back to being on-topic. Note that many people misspell 'villains' as 'villians.' So, it'd be best if we all pronounce it "VIHL - lee - andz."
 

ᗩLᘿᑕ ֊ᗩζᗩᗰ

Hᴏᴜsᴇ ᴏʄ  Mᴀɢɪᴄ
Premium Member
Anyhoo, to bring this back to being on-topic. Note that many people misspell 'villains' as 'villians.' So, it'd be best if we all pronounce it "VIHL - lee - andz."
Case in point.
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LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone, because "cent" and the ending of "recent" are 100% pronounced the same way.
If that were so, you would pronounce “recent” exactly the same as “resent” (as in sending something again, not feeling bitterness!). Try saying “I recently resent the email” and you’ll hear how distinct the second syllables of those two words are. Again, you don’t have to take my word for it: any transcription will tell you the same thing. Indeed (and to take us back to what sparked this tangent), it’s why Disney used “sint” rather than “sent” to represent the final syllable of “Maleficent” (@TheMaxRebo’s response to you suggests that Disney is not alone in using an I to represent that sound).

Do you pronounce 'him' and 'hem' the same?

When people shift unstressed 'short' vowels to the schwa-E, then yes, they are homophones.
For what it’s worth, I think this is a distinction you yourself have developed. All dictionaries as far as I can tell show “compliment” and “complement” as homophones.
 

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