MK Villains Land Announced for Walt Disney World's Magic Kingdom

Agent H

Agent H

Well-Known Member
UNCgolf said:
I wasn't suggesting it would necessarily be a bad cartoon -- just that I don't think it makes sense as a major theme park attraction. I also think it would require too much silliness and characters that look like the Disney villain but don't actually act like the Disney villain.

I think (and maybe I'm wrong) that when people say they want Disney villains, they want to see/experience the villains as they exist in their films. Not some completely different version of them that just looks the same. That's another reason I don't really like it is a concept; many (if not most) of the Disney villains are going to feel weirdly out of place when taken out of the context of their film.
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I don’t see how it would be a completely different version of them just because they don’t get along with the other villains. In any case I don’t see this going anywhere so I think it’s best we agree to disagree.
 
J

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
Agent H said:
Really it’s a trope that goes back a long time. The point is that they’re such terrible people that they can’t even get along with like-minded people.
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The other lands have powerful placemaking themes based on genres like utopian science fiction, medieval fantasy, western action, castaway adventure, romanticized Americana, etc. The attractions and characters are designed to blend without needing narrative explanation because the theme itself is unifying. In no existing land is the central thesis as tenuous as, "Disney villains are hanging out and teaming up because Disney!" If there is an isolated attraction or show wherein successive villains appear (i.e. Fantasmic), then fine. However, the layout and visual storytelling of the land should not be predicated on that idea.
 
Agent H

Agent H

Well-Known Member
James Alucobond said:
The other lands have powerful placemaking themes based on genres like utopian science fiction, medieval fantasy, western action, castaway adventure, romanticized Americana, etc. The attractions and characters are designed to blend without needing narrative explanation because the theme itself is unifying. In no existing land is the central thesis as tenuous as, "Disney villains are hanging out and teaming up because Disney!" If there is an isolated attraction or show wherein successive villains appear (i.e. Fantasmic), then fine. However, the layout and visual storytelling of the land should not be predicated on that idea.
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While it’s true that all of the magic kingdom lands are designed to fit a bunch of different concepts Disney has been designing theme park lands with overarching narratives that explain every little detail for at least 30 years or so. It’s even been retroactively written for older lands (example. Disneylands Adventureland) so I don’t know why this land would be any different.
 
J

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
Agent H said:
While it’s true that all of the magic kingdom lands are designed to fit a bunch of different concepts Disney has been designing theme park lands with overarching narratives that explain every little detail for at least 30 years or so. It’s even been retroactively written for older lands (example. Disneylands Adventureland) so I don’t know why this land would be any different.
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They put discoverable story details throughout the lands. That is not the same thing. That's about making it feel broadly lived-in and dynamic. Unless you're building an IP-based land, the lands themselves should be deeply rooted in a fairly universal theme, genre, cultural context, or whatever. "Disney villains teaming up" is self-referential, fourth wall-breaking, and transparently merchandise-centric in a really unappealing and thoroughly untimeless way. It is definitely not a good organizing principle for the land.
 
D

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
I actually think there’s a ton they could do with a villains theme, because there’s such an interesting psychology to “villains” - and I think those are themes that would be universal enough to be easily recognized. It could be the dark, rebellious world of the outcast. It could be the electrifying, heady feeling of Halloween night. It could the strange, eerie feeling of something glowing just beneath the surface (haven’t been there but it looks like parts of Potter World do that well). It could be smirking, dramatic camp. Etc.

I think an overarching theme for Villains will have to be more about broad archetypes, less about specific storylines. It is true that the villains as a group don’t have any kind of group narrative - but in their case, I think the psychological themes are interesting enough to make up for that.
 
ToTBellHop

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
The issue with all of the recent new lands is that they no longer build them with an over-arching, general theme. The theme is always whatever IP. Any story treatments are just meant to explain the land’s existence in a defined time and place. They no longer build lands with a general theme where the attractions are loosely interconnected. And they certainly don’t worry about connecting to other lands. This is how Disneyland ended up with a Batuu. They adapt it to make it work visually, but thematically, it has no place in Disneyland.

As with so many things, I blame J. K. Rowling and, by extension, Great Britain for this.
 
J

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
DisneyHead123 said:
I actually think there’s a ton they could do with a villains theme, because there’s such an interesting psychology to “villains” - and I think those are themes that would be universal enough to be easily recognized. It could be the dark, rebellious world of the outcast. It could be the electrifying, heady feeling of Halloween night. It could the strange, eerie feeling of something glowing just beneath the surface (haven’t been there but it looks like parts of Potter World do that well). It could be smirking, dramatic camp. Etc.

I think an overarching theme for Villains will have to be more about broad archetypes, less about specific storylines. It is true that the villains as a group don’t have any kind of group narrative - but in their case, I think the psychological themes are interesting enough to make up for that.
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This is why Villains was the best choice of all “probable” options for a new land at MK despite potential problems with execution. Even if they go the route of some contrived villain meet-up, there’s a decent chance they stumble into a land that at least feels like it taps into a universal genre, like gothic horror or dark fantasy. It also helps that, aside from Maleficent’s castle, there aren’t really that many architecturally significant villain lairs, particularly if we’re talking about exteriors instead of interiors.
ToTBellHop said:
The issue with all of the recent new lands is that they no longer build them with an over-arching, general theme. The theme is always whatever IP. Any story treatments are just meant to explain the land’s existence in a defined time and place. They no longer build lands with a general theme where the attractions are loosely interconnected. And they certainly don’t worry about connecting to other lands. This is how Disneyland ended up with a Batuu. They adapt it to make it work visually, but thematically, it has no place in Disneyland.

As with so many things, I blame J. K. Rowling and, by extension, Great Britain for this.
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I’m hoping Tropical Americas and Villains buck the trend, even if accidentally.
 
J

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
Agent H said:
I will never understand why people think ip based lands don’t fit in the castle parks. The closest thing they have to an overarching theme Americana.
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You may as well say you don’t understand why people value consistency. I honestly have no issue with a “new” castle park going that direction if it’s the intended overarching design philosophy, but when six lands are presented a certain way, the seventh will ideally follow suit.
 
ToTBellHop

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
James Alucobond said:
You may as well say you don’t understand why people value consistency. I honestly have no issue with a “new” castle park going that direction if it’s the intended overarching design philosophy, but when six lands are presented a certain way, the seventh will ideally follow suit.
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Maybe they will surprise us and come up with a theme like “adventure” or “fantasy”.

Surely, it won’t actually be called Villainland. Even if I don’t love the project, at least some attempt is being made to make Cars an expansion of Frontierland.
 
D

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
Was listening to a CNN story about the Abu Dhabi park, and one thing they talked about was “gamification” as a trend that would be applied in the new park. It made me think that will likely be a theme in Villains as well. If they are ever going to do an updated Sorcerers or a MagiQuest type game, the Magic Mirror seems like the obvious lead-in.
 

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