MK Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[TrainsOfDisney]

Point being - its quite possible they build such beauty again in something new... without it being the TSI+River.

I’m hopeful it will look very nice - but it will be drastically different I think.

Best case scenario they have some kinetic energy like a water wheel, etc. the way TSI did. Maybe even a burning cabin!? They could definitely make some purists happy if they try a little bit.

 

[lazyboy97o]

River - no - TSI and most of the river away from the landings... yes, forgettable.

Point being - its quite possible they build such beauty again in something new... without it being the TSI+River.

What’s being lost isn’t just beauty.

 

[flynnibus]

What’s being lost isn’t just beauty.

The concern I spoke to was though.

 

[HMF]

It didn’t used to be. Everest, Cars Land, and Avatar all met or exceeded my expectations based on the art.

Two of those involved Joe Rohde, the other John Lasseter. No one of that caliber would be hired by todays Disney.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

the other John Lasseter

Yes and Kevin Rafferty - who is on the same pedestal with Joe and Tony in my book.

The loss of John Lasseter was huge for the parks though :-(

 

[HMF]

The loss of John Lasseter was huge for the parks though :-(

I would argue for Pixar as well.

 

[Gusey]

Possibly? My interpretation was always “these are not blue sky ideas - they are really happening and you will see them come to life over the next 5 years” meaning they will be actively being built and worked on.

Which is indeed already true.

For me, I intertpreted coming to life as actually operating attractions, especially as all the projects announced at 2024 D23 are all already under construction except for Avatar at DCA, and even that is beginning next year. That will be all of them within 2 years, not 5 years, so bringing to life is more than just construction happening

 

[James Alucobond]

I do wish that whoever guides the planning had the same respect he had for the conceptual aspects of the theme parks. They've lost a sense of pace, staging, etc. It's like seeing Hamlet with dancing clowns in the balcony and a cotton candy salesman climbing over the seats. The RoA created a sense of quiet, directed the eye, and subconsciously told the story:

You are traveling through the history of America pre-1900. Either you start at the gold rush and head back to colonial times, or you travel forward from colonial times to the Gold Rush. Isn't it fascinating how the country grew so quickly? Here's the steamboat, one of the inventions that enabled that growth.

This isn't technically how it worked anyway. It went from Haunted Mansion (1830s) to Hall of Presidents (post-1770s revolutionary period) to Liberty Belle (mid-1800s) to Tom Sawyer (1830-40) to Country Bears (post-1928) to Splash Mountain (frame story told in the 1860s) to Big Thunder (1860s abandoned ghost town visited an indeterminate time after 1890 or so). The point was that it held together as a sort of visual journey through early Americana, not that there was a really explicit linear temporal progression.

The specific places visited within Frontierland will actually be more temporally alike now. They can all more or less coexist in the same early 20th-century post-Roosevelt era, and perhaps that's partially the goal insofar as the frontier can be framed as more of a conservationist concept rather than Manifest Destiny. You'll have Country Bears (post-1928), Tiana's Bayou Adventure (post-1927), Big Thunder Mountain (indeterminate time after 1890), and Piston Peak (centered on Old Faithful Inn & Lodge, built 1903-1927). The confounding factor for Piston Peak is that there's no way they can resist throwing in Mater (1950s) and McQueen (modern) despite having characters like Stanley and Lizzie who could actually work, so despite the setting being okay, the characters (and likely ride vehicles) won't be.

But that's all kind of beside the point anyway. As you said initially, it was about the sense of quiet and visual unity the Rivers provided. Just wanted to point out that the timeline wasn't actually that consistently considered.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Lasseter ....

I do wish that whoever guides the planning had the same respect he had for the conceptual aspects of the theme parks.

It *seems* to me, from the outside, that Lasseter kept pushing for "Pixar" to be a theme. And that's how we got Pixar Pier in DCA. And how we almost got a Pixar cul de sac in DHS in front of Midway's old main entrance.

Pixar isn't a theme. The individual films do not have a shared universe (except in the minds of some fevered imaginations). In fact, they can clash with one another.

Lasseter's absence hopefully means that TWDC will not try any more Pixar themed lands, but instead, make a coherent land around one IP.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

It *seems* to me, from the outside, that Lasseter kept pushing for "Pixar" to be a theme.

Maybe. Pixar Pier is certainly unfortunate.

“Pixar Studios” as a park within a park could have worked as a theme at DHS.

But San fransokyo is just as bad as Pixar pier…

Other than Pixar pier - I think everything that happened during his time involved with the parks was a positive.

 

[HMF]

It *seems* to me, from the outside, that Lasseter kept pushing for "Pixar" to be a theme. And that's how we got Pixar Pier in DCA. And how we almost got a Pixar cul de sac in DHS in front of Midway's old main entrance.

Pixar isn't a theme. The individual films do not have a shared universe (except in the minds of some fevered imaginations). In fact, they can clash with one another.

Lasseter's absence hopefully means that TWDC will not try any more Pixar themed lands, but instead, make a coherent land around one IP.

I will acknowledge that Lasseters biggest flaw in the parks department was his over-promotion of his own characters. Pixar Pier was indeed a horrible idea even though having a pier in any Disney Park was a horrible idea to begin with. Pixar Place was actually a very good idea that I wish they had stuck with because it would have contained most of the Pixar attractions in one area at WDW preventing them from being put in inappropriate places like say Frontierland.

 

[James Alucobond]

Pixar Place was actually a very good idea that I wish they had stuck with because it would have contained most of the Pixar attractions in one area at WDW preventing them from being put in inappropriate places like say Frontierland.

Containment has never really worked in practice. They'll put IP anywhere at this point, whether it's in another park or not.

 

[HMF]

Containment has never really worked in practice. They'll put IP anywhere at this point, whether it's in another park or not.

That is more of a problem with Iger's Parks philosophy than Lasseter's.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I do wish that whoever guides the planning had the same respect he had for the conceptual aspects of the theme parks. They've lost a sense of pace, staging, etc. It's like seeing Hamlet with dancing clowns in the balcony and a cotton candy salesman climbing over the seats. The RoA created a sense of quiet, directed the eye, and subconsciously told the story:

This sort of stuff wasn’t Lasseter’s doing. It was people like Tom Morris getting uncredited work.

Other than Pixar pier - I think everything that happened during his time involved with the parks was a positive.

Which is like all of two projects.

That is more of a problem with Iger's Parks philosophy than Lasseter's.

Lasseter didn’t actually have a meaningfully different philosophy beyond personally liking rides. He was more than happy to relegate themed entertainment to a secondary status.


It’s really kind of gross and disturbing how much people have puffed up Lasseter’s involvement in parks projects since his ousting. He’s being given all sort of credit for this that he wasn’t involved with as though he an actively involved creative director and not a glorified consultant who got to poke at a few things.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

It’s really kind of gross and disturbing how much people have puffed up Lasseter’s involvement in parks projects since his ousting. He’s being given all sort of credit for this that he wasn’t involved with

Not sure if it’s gross and disturbing - none of us work at 1401 flower so we don’t really know how involved some people were or weren’t. We know that he was involved to an extent - and in general I find him to be a creative genius.

Not to excuse his faults, I don’t excuse Walt’s either. But still can praise Walt for the being the visionary that brought us the Disney parks…. Or was Walt not really involved with anything either?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Not sure if it’s gross and disturbing - none of us work at 1401 flower so we don’t really know how involved some people were or weren’t. We know that he was involved to an extent - and in general I find him to be a creative genius.

Not to excuse his faults, I don’t excuse Walt’s either. But still can praise Walt for the being the visionary that brought us the Disney parks…. Or was Walt not really involved with anything either?

That people don’t know is part of what makes it gross and disturbing. It is puffing up his contributions and it’s clear part of the purpose is to minimize his completely unacceptable behavior. It’s telling that nobody is blaming him for The Little Mermaid that was right there at that same time period when he was most involved. Not to mention the avoidance of associating him with later projects like Toy Story Land.

Walt wasn’t a creative advisor on Disneyland. He was the boss who was personally paying a good chunk of the bills and had the actual power to make decisions. But even he eventually came to accept that he couldn’t be involved in everything. He even said that the park that would become Magic Kingdom would largely be designed without him. We credit people like Marc Davis or Herb Roman for their work on the parks and shouldn’t try to insert Walt into things where he wasn’t involved.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

It is puffing up his contributions and its clear part of the purpose is to minimize his completely unacceptable behavior.

We have presidents on both sides of the aisle who have done way worse (in the same category of sin) and stayed in the Oval Office.

I’m not convinced John shouldn’t have kept his job - but I don’t know all the details.

I have no issue praising John for his contributions to the company. Several projects happened during his time as an advisor that turned out exceptionally well - Cars Land, Buena Vista Street, and Rivers of America being a few of them.

I know the most praise for Cars land goes to the brilliant Kevin Rafferty (Who is on the same pedestal as Tony and Joe in my book) - but I’m quite certain John helped that land be as magical as it is.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I have no issue praising John for his contributions to the company. Several projects happened during his time as an advisor that turned out exceptionally well - Cars Land, Buena Vista Street, and Rivers of America being a few of them.

Correlation is not causation. You are picking and choosing things to attribute to him, and have already admitted to not actually knowing his involvement.

 

[Incomudro]

It *seems* to me, from the outside, that Lasseter kept pushing for "Pixar" to be a theme. And that's how we got Pixar Pier in DCA. And how we almost got a Pixar cul de sac in DHS in front of Midway's old main entrance.

Pixar isn't a theme. The individual films do not have a shared universe (except in the minds of some fevered imaginations). In fact, they can clash with one another.

Lasseter's absence hopefully means that TWDC will not try any more Pixar themed lands, but instead, make a coherent land around one IP.

Pixar as a theme in Hollywood Studios would have worked for me,

 

[James Alucobond]

Pixar as a theme in Hollywood Studios would have worked for me,

With the old version of the park, sure. With the way it has been reimagined, no.