Portions of Kidzone closing January 16, 2023

[Andrew25]

The bigger issue for me is their continued inability to improve USF. It’s jarring how weak it is when you go to IoA. EU will make it look even worse. It shouldn’t be that hard to fill warehouses with compelling attractions.

Don't get me wrong, I was very anti-Epic Universe when it was being rumored as I would have preferred 2 fully-fleshed out parks instead of 2 great parks and one park surviving on events and Diagon Alley lol

With that said, there are a lot of moving pieces that will start gearing up soon to get USF in a better long-term solution, quicker than most people realize.

 

[sonoma15]

To be fair Disney's food booths are better priced, higher quality and offer way better service.

2023-24 Average Pricing:
WDW Food & Wine 2023 - $6.67
WDW Flower & Garden 2024 - $6.63
UOR Mardi Gras 2024 - $8.08
*Excludes any kind of beverages as Universal/Disney use different serving sizes that make it difficult to compare 1:1.

I don't actually care that much about the average price of the festivals, I'm just joking and I think they are both great festivals. I've had great and terrible items at both, but as an AP holder I get a pretty sizeable discount on Mardi Gras items (20% discount with the gift card than my 10% AP discount) which I'm pretty sure makes the average price (in my situation) lower than the price of Disney food festivals, which offer no discounts.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Don't get me wrong, I was very anti-Epic Universe when it was being rumored as I would have preferred 2 fully-fleshed out parks instead of 2 great parks and one park surviving on events and Diagon Alley lol

With that said, there are a lot of moving pieces that will start gearing up soon to get USF in a better long-term solution, quicker than most people realize.

I certainly hope that’s true, but at this point I feel like most people do toward Disney right now—I’ll believe it when I see it!

 

[Tom Morrow]

The way Universal is treated with kid gloves combined with the sarcastic dismissiveness its fans treat any claims that they could do better are the reason Kong is in its present state. It’s astonishing to me how two world class properties charging similar rates in Central Florida are treated in such a vastly different manner. They serve overpriced garbage from literal tents at marquis events and the crowd goes wild.

They did win the crepe war. Credit where due. The strawberry Nutella crepe I waited 45 minutes for was delicious. And served from an actual building!

I think a better comparison is stuff like VillainCon - it's absolute garbage. "But it's not meant to be a major attraction!" - neither is Moana, but at least Moana is very pretty. Yet Moana was ripped apart by theme park fans and they've been mostly silent on VillainCon. Or Tron, a simple but competent E-ticket, is also ripped to shreds by theme park enthusiasts. But, you know, slapping some Minion statues on things - Smart and Good.

No no, you are completely right my food festival narrative is crumbling around me. I don't know what I'll do, first the children's playground now this. I just can't catch a break

Exactly the snark @ToTBellHop was talking about.

Objective criticism of Universal is always dismissed or laughed at by its fans because, well, to be frank, theme park enthusiasts are largely a bunch of nerds (not saying I'm NOT a huge nerd!) who latch on to one of the two brands as part of their identity. A lot of these people (I've known tons over the course of my life so I'm not just spitballing) are the contrarian types who want to come off as more informed and more unique than the masses - thus, liking the less popular, less praised resort and bashing everything the most popular, more praised resort does falls in line with the image they want to project.

So you get things like "VillainCon fine, Tron absolute garbage". (I think Tron is an okay E-ticket).

To circle around back to Dreamworks Land, again, it's fine that it's mediocre, but it was basically a big mud pile for over a year and it seems like they perhaps could have done a little more than paint the ground and slap some 2D character cutouts around. I'd rather people just acknowledge this than be all "Well it's okay because ______." especially when this is a park that very much needs new high quality additions.

 

[Andrew25]

I think a better comparison is stuff like VillainCon - it's absolute garbage. "But it's not meant to be a major attraction!" - neither is Moana, but at least Moana is very pretty. Yet Moana was ripped apart by theme park fans and they've been mostly silent on VillainCon. Or Tron, a simple but competent E-ticket, is also ripped to shreds by theme park enthusiasts. But, you know, slapping some Minion statues on things - Smart and Good.



Exactly the snark @ToTBellHop was talking about.

Objective criticism of Universal is always dismissed or laughed at by its fans because, well, to be frank, theme park enthusiasts are largely a bunch of nerds (not saying I'm NOT a huge nerd!) who latch on to one of the two brands as part of their identity. A lot of these people (I've known tons over the course of my life so I'm not just spitballing) are the contrarian types who want to come off as more informed and more unique than the masses - thus, liking the less popular, less praised resort and bashing everything the most popular, more praised resort does falls in line with the image they want to project.

So you get things like "VillainCon fine, Tron absolute garbage". (I think Tron is an okay E-ticket).

To circle around back to Dreamworks Land, again, it's fine that it's mediocre, but it was basically a big mud pile for over a year and it seems like they perhaps could have done a little more than paint the ground and slap some 2D character cutouts around. I'd rather people just acknowledge this than be all "Well it's okay because ______." especially when this is a park that very much needs new high quality additions.

The one thing giving me hope is that we're looking at a Rip Ride Rockit replacement and Pokemon sometime in the next few years.

The parade/fireworks will be a decent step in the right direction of getting USF back into action as well.

Edit: I say this as someone who passionately hates the recent changes at the parks. Early park closures in favor of special events, horrendous parking operations, horrible F&B ops, TMs with very little training, etc.

 

[ToTBellHop]

The one thing giving me hope is that we're looking at a Rip Ride Rockit replacement and Pokemon sometime in the next few years.

The parade/fireworks will be a decent step in the right direction of getting USF back into action as well.

I struggle to imagine what Rip Ride can be replaced with. It had such a compact layout. I worry it will simply be removed.

 

[Andrew25]

I struggle to imagine what Rip Ride can be replaced with. It had such a compact layout. I worry it will simply be removed.

Probably something similar to USH's Fast and Furious coaster.

There's a bit of land available by the soundstages that can provide additional space for the layout if they wanted to.

 

[sonoma15]

I think a better comparison is stuff like VillainCon - it's absolute garbage. "But it's not meant to be a major attraction!" - neither is Moana, but at least Moana is very pretty. Yet Moana was ripped apart by theme park fans and they've been mostly silent on VillainCon. Or Tron, a simple but competent E-ticket, is also ripped to shreds by theme park enthusiasts. But, you know, slapping some Minion statues on things - Smart and Good.



Exactly the snark @ToTBellHop was talking about.

Objective criticism of Universal is always dismissed or laughed at by its fans because, well, to be frank, theme park enthusiasts are largely a bunch of nerds (not saying I'm NOT a huge nerd!) who latch on to one of the two brands as part of their identity. A lot of these people (I've known tons over the course of my life so I'm not just spitballing) are the contrarian types who want to come off as more informed and more unique than the masses - thus, liking the less popular, less praised resort and bashing everything the most popular, more praised resort does falls in line with the image they want to project.

So you get things like "VillainCon fine, Tron absolute garbage". (I think Tron is an okay E-ticket).

To circle around back to Dreamworks Land, again, it's fine that it's mediocre, but it was basically a big mud pile for over a year and it seems like they perhaps could have done a little more than paint the ground and slap some 2D character cutouts around. I'd rather people just acknowledge this than be all "Well it's okay because ______." especially when this is a park that very much needs new high quality additions.

Well I like villaincon (I am a top 50 villain) so thats why you haven't heard any hate about it from me. I like tron too, it's a must ride everytime I go to MK (unless I get screwed by the virtual queue which has happened multiple times to me). It's funny hearing these "universal" fan takes from y'all whenever people don't complain about every little thing Universal does because I go to both resorts at least once a week nearly every week and love both. I just love theme parks.

 

[lazyboy97o]

To circle around back to Dreamworks Land, again, it's fine that it's mediocre, but it was basically a big mud pile for over a year and it seems like they perhaps could have done a little more than paint the ground and slap some 2D character cutouts around.

It is only that because it was such a short project.

 

[JT3000]

Yes, I’m sure all of us who keeping noting this difference are just crazy.

Not crazy, just too biased to see the situation clearly. Biased Disney fanatics outnumber similar Universal fanatics 10 to 1, and they always have. But I don't expect someone hyperbolic enough to complain about the theming of temporary food stands to realize this.

They're food stands, dude.

The way Universal is treated with kid gloves combined with the sarcastic dismissiveness its fans treat any claims that they could do better are the reason Kong is in its present state.

This narrative falls apart when you realize that someone can be both forgiving of a kid's playground not being the greatest thing ever while also offering harsh criticism of what they did to Kong. Which you should, because I just described a number of people, myself included. It's all about managing expectations & priorities. Offering hyperbolic criticism of every little thing they do won't help anything. I promise no one at Universal is reading this thinking, "I'm sorry you don't like our food stands, sir. We'll add the 3D back to Kong immediately."

 

[BrianLo]

Not crazy, just too biased to see the situation clearly. Biased Disney fanatics outnumber similar Universal fanatics 10 to 1, and they always have. But I don't expect someone hyperbolic enough to complain about the theming of temporary food stands to realize this.

That’s because Disney Fanatics in general outrank Universal fanatics many, many times over.

No one is really signing up to attend C23 to celebrate all things Comcast. The praise is louder, but so seemingly is the criticism.

I’m also not totally disagreeing with you, there isn’t as much critical takes against Universal probably because there are just a lot less people who actually care enough to be critical. Or actually have a relationship enough with their product that is more than a decade or two old.

The problem with the lack of criticism is probably an issue within the Disney community itself… rather than the Universal one. The hypocrisy springs from the Disney fans who think the grass is greener, but refuse to actually critically judge the other side.

 

[JT3000]

That’s because Disney Fanatics in general outrank Universal fanatics many, many times over.

No one is really signing up to attend C23 to celebrate all things Comcast. The praise is louder, but so seemingly is the criticism.

I’m also not totally disagreeing with you, there isn’t as much critical takes against Universal probably because there are just a lot less people who actually care enough to be critical. Or actually have a relationship enough with their product that is more than a decade or two old.

The problem with the lack of criticism is probably an issue within the Disney community itself… rather than the Universal one. The hypocrisy springs from the Disney fans who think the grass is greener, but refuse to actually critically judge the other side.

There's been a decent amount of Disney criticism within certain circles of the enthusiast community recently, the sort of people who will visit sites like this, but I think they often fail to see the bigger picture. Disney still has a significantly larger and more rabid consumer base than any of its competitors. I'll just say I've never heard of a "Universal adult." The parks have their fans, for sure, but I've never seen or heard of anyone who makes them their entire personality. If a D23 equivalent existed, I'm sure people would show up to watch, but not as many.

Also, a pretty decent portion of the wider Universal praise I've seen online lately has been coming from people who've recently decided they hate Disney, for reasons that have nothing to do with the parks themselves. They aren't even actual Universal fans. They just hate Disney, so they prop up their competitors (and some of these people have probably never even been to said parks.)

 

[BrianLo]

So anyways, this land is ‘fine’. We’ll see how some of it holds up to wear and tear.

My criticism is going to stem from the fact that this is just more doubling down on mediocrity in USF. I’ve waited literally over a decade of obsessive recurrent Kidzone replacement rumours for us to essentially wind up back at a place that we started. It isn’t lost on me this should have been Super Nintendo World five years ago.
The real analogues here are Toontown and Dinoland USA. The former from the same general time period. How it has been seemingly revised and refreshed in recent times to something I largely feel is a permanent fixture In the park. I went from being quite content with Galaxies Edge ripping out Toontown to feeling like it’s really become a permanent quality, LASTING part of Disneyland. This Dreamworks project is just another one that already has a shelf life.

Or Dinoland, which is being reborn into an actual nice land with its random attraction still off to the side, but meaningfully incorporated and hopefully refreshed in a positive way. No I don’t want them ripping out ET, so I guess I’m weirdly thankful it’s still there totally untouched.

Why is there no proper indoor retail, indoor dining, a quick serve. Instead of a false noodle shop facade. It’s all very temporary and another stop gap, because that’s what it is. So I’m not so much judgemental of the finalized product as much as the ‘why’. Can we start the ‘Dreamworks land to close in the New Year’ threads yet?


My other criticism is yeesh. You all realize this is the type of energy that the Texas project is bringing - right? This is what they’ve put into their billions of dollar flagship original park with admission prices creeping towards 200$. The cheap regional Kids park is not going to be what everyone wants it to be. I think a VillainsCon might be the best attraction that regional park would even support. Maybe some cute bus bar dark rides if we’re extremely lucky.

 

[sonoma15]

My other criticism is yeesh. You all realize this is the type of energy that the Texas project is bringing - right? This is what they’ve put into their billions of dollar flagship original park with admission prices creeping towards 200$. The cheap regional Kids park is not going to be what everyone wants it to be. I think a VillainsCon might be the best attraction that regional park would even support. Maybe some cute bus bar dark rides if we’re extremely lucky.

The Texas project is very much intended to be on something like the level of Peppa Pig park - albeit bigger and not just a small portion of a parking lot, so I wouldn't expect any dark rides, but it's intended for that age range. I would expect a small coaster, a kid friendly water ride (as shown in the concept art), and some small flat rides. It's possible a small scale dark ride like Lost Kingdom Adventure at most Legoland parks could be added in the future. I doubt they will even get something like Villain-Con at opening though considering that alone would eat up like 20% of the parks budget, but I do think that would be a good fit for this park.

 

[Tom Morrow]

I'll just say I've never heard of a "Universal adult." The parks have their fans, for sure, but I've never seen or heard of anyone who makes them their entire personality. If a D23 equivalent existed, I'm sure people would show up to watch, but not as many.

True, there aren't "Universal adults" per say, but as a lover of theme parks and not just Disney and Universal, from most people I talk to who fall under that description / not Disney Adults, the general opinion among them is usually what I said above: Disney sucks now, Universal is untouchable.

Also, a pretty decent portion of the wider Universal praise I've seen online lately has been coming from people who've recently decided they hate Disney, for reasons that have nothing to do with the parks themselves. They aren't even actual Universal fans. They just hate Disney, so they prop up their competitors (and some of these people have probably never even been to said parks.)

I have encountered some of this as well (unfortunately), in addition to people who aren't anti-woke and used to love Disney parks but now bash everything they do. The people hating on Disney / Disney parks because of perceived "wokeness" are truly pathetic whereas I think a lot of theme park enthusiasts just want to belong with the group.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Anyways,

My criticism is going to stem from the fact that this is just more doubling down on mediocrity in USF. I’ve waited literally over a decade of obsessive recurrent Kidzone replacement rumours for us to essentially wind up back at a place that we started. It isn’t lost on me this should have been Super Nintendo World five years ago.

Yes. By itself, it's fine that it's mediocre, a minor improvement. Bigger picture though, another mediocre addition/change to USF shouldn't just be dismissed "because they have other stuff going on". The park really needs help.

 

[BrianLo]

The Texas project is very much intended to be on something like the level of Peppa Pig park - albeit bigger and not just a small portion of a parking lot, so I wouldn't expect any dark rides, but it's intended for that age range. I would expect a small coaster, a kid friendly water ride (as shown in the concept art), and some small flat rides. It's possible a small scale dark ride like Lost Kingdom Adventure at most Legoland parks could be added in the future. I doubt they will even get something like Villain-Con at opening though considering that alone would eat up like 20% of the parks budget, but I do think that would be a good fit for this park.

A very fair take on the status. I have seen a lot more positivity about the project, which sort of strikes me as people not really understanding what it is. Unless you live regionally close to it I guess and have little kids.

I really think it weakens and cheapens their parks brand, personally. Maybe I'm alone in that thought.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It isn’t lost on me this should have been Super Nintendo World five years ago.

Or Pokémon, or any of the other grand plans that were developed rather far into the design process. People complain about Disney cancelling projects but they’ve got nothing on Universal and just Kid’s Zone.

The area wasn’t designed to be what it is, so something more ambitious would have some significant costs associated with things that are not guest faxing. But this project was something quick and cheap just to say they have something new this year.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Or Pokémon, or any of the other grand plans that were developed rather far into the design process. People complain about Disney cancelling projects but they’ve got nothing on Universal and just Kid’s Zone.

The area wasn’t designed to be what it is, so something more ambitious would have some significant costs associated with things that are not guest faxing. But this project was something quick and cheap just to say they have something new this year.

So it's not just Disney that isn't *responding* to EU, it's also Universal not responding to EU!!

 

[Tom Morrow]

Universal is gonna run Universal out of business at this rate