News Disney Lakeshore Lodge (Project 89 - Development near Fort Wilderness)

[Kamikaze]

They are rides. Why wouldn’t we call them rides?

Disney calls them attractions.

Is Disney legally required to note that it runs “amusement” parks?

Obviously not, but that legal note can't be the reason you're upset about it.

And in general yes, Disney’s PR speak can be absurd, and it’s vital that consumers peel it away to understand and discuss what they are actually doing.

Vital to what?

 

[Kamikaze]

I’m seeing a few on this page include the post immediate above yours.

I can see where you're getting that from that post, but I think that's the person pointing out why it isn't necessarily an exact timeshare.

 

[Touchdown]

I feel like I need to be pedantic about something. All theme parks are amusement parks, not all amusement parks are theme parks. All 4 WDW parks are amusement parks (as well as theme parks.)

 

[John park hopper]

IMO they are becoming less and less theme parks or themed resorts.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I feel like I need to be pedantic about something. All theme parks are amusement parks, not all amusement parks are theme parks. All 4 WDW parks are amusement parks (as well as theme parks.)

 

[BrianLo]

The fact that Disney doesn’t want to call it what it is should set off alarm bells.

DVC has been detrimental to the resort.

That’s exactly why they don’t want to call it a timeshare. Not the other way around.

It absolutely is a timeshare. Though because people have a visceral negative reaction thanks to a small host of incredibly seedy and malicious developers; they evade what it is.

I think your perspective is mostly an issue of what they’d probably be building if they were on a cash binge instead. The worst part of lakeshore lodge is the cash side. A solo timeshare was the backbone of Disneys first legitimate transit solution in decades. It goes both ways. Heck, the FantasySprings hotel is frankly a travesty from everything but its most premium face.

 

[larryz]

IMO they are becoming less and less theme parks or themed resorts.

All of the Disney parks and resorts have exactly the same theme -- separate tourists from their money.
AK = Always Kash
MK = More Kash
EPCOT = Every Penny Collected Off Tourists
DHS = Dollars Have Substance
DLR = Dollars, Lire, Rupees
DLP = Disney Loves Piasters
DLH = Dollars Left Here
DLS = Disney Loves Shekels
DLT = Disney Loves Tender

 

[Casper Gutman]

That’s exactly why they don’t want to call it a timeshare. Not the other way around.

It absolutely is a timeshare. Though because people have a visceral negative reaction thanks to a small host of incredibly seedy and malicious developers; they evade what it is.

I think your perspective is mostly an issue of what they’d probably be building if they were on a cash binge instead. The worst part of lakeshore lodge is the cash side. A solo timeshare was the backbone of Disneys first legitimate transit solution in decades. It goes both ways. Heck, the FantasySprings hotel is frankly a travesty from everything but its most premium face.

I know this is an old post, but I wanted to respond. When I made my post I considered the specifics of what WDW would be like now without DVC and, as you said, it’s a complex issue. The surest thing would be that you wouldn’t have the ugly, largely unthemed, service poor, out-of-place tower additions to many classic Disney resorts. Those are naked attempts to leverage the cache and location of well-designed and -themed resorts to move DVC memberships and please those who have already bought in. “Standalone” resorts like Riviera and Lakeshore are trickier. Would they be more themed? I’d argue that it’s likely they would be simply because they would have to “stand out” more on their own merits rather than rely on the DVC hook to entice guests. I also suspect guests would be more attracted to flamboyant theming in a hotel they treat as a hotel rather than as a “home resort.”

On the simplest level, however, the Disney that didn’t develop and relentlessly push the cash grab of DVC is also likely one that doesn’t make a bunch of the other disastrous changes to the resort over the last decades. It’s a different, better company. In that sense DVC is the symptom, not the disease.

 

[MR.Dis]

I know this is an old post, but I wanted to respond. When I made my post I considered the specifics of what WDW would be like now without DVC and, as you said, it’s a complex issue. The surest thing would be that you wouldn’t have the ugly, largely unthemed, service poor, out-of-place tower additions to many classic Disney resorts. Those are naked attempts to leverage the cache and location of well-designed and -themed resorts to move DVC memberships and please those who have already bought in. “Standalone” resorts like Riviera and Lakeshore are trickier. Would they be more themed? I’d argue that it’s likely they would be simply because they would have to “stand out” more on their own merits rather than rely on the DVC hook to entice guests. I also suspect guests would be more attracted to flamboyant theming in a hotel they treat as a hotel rather than as$250 a “home resort.”

On the simplest level, however, the Disney that didn’t develop and relentlessly push the cash grab of DVC is also likely one that doesn’t make a bunch of the other disastrous changes to the resort over the last decades. It’s a different, better company. In that sense DVC is the symptom, not the disease.

What a thought provoking post. I bought first DVC contract 15 years ago and have taken advantage of great economic benefits thru the years. By buying Annual passes have saved thousands in last 15 years. The cost of lodging is just crazy, the original cost of a value at All stars was like $60 a night and is now $250 (the last time I looked), but being DVC I am not a victim to the lodging price goudging. Not to mention I always get at least a one bedroom with full kitchen and order from Instacart so I save thousands more in food/beverage. The part about the theming is so true--the new Poly Tower is just plan bad and sticks out like a sore thumb. Riviera in my opinion is ugly, just me and I believe in each to their own if someone disagrees. So I guess I am a bit of a hypocrite in that I love the financial benefits I have taken advantage of over the years, but hate the current DVC resorts, point charts, and expansion.

 

[BrianLo]

I know this is an old post, but I wanted to respond. When I made my post I considered the specifics of what WDW would be like now without DVC and, as you said, it’s a complex issue. The surest thing would be that you wouldn’t have the ugly, largely unthemed, service poor, out-of-place tower additions to many classic Disney resorts. Those are naked attempts to leverage the cache and location of well-designed and -themed resorts to move DVC memberships and please those who have already bought in. “Standalone” resorts like Riviera and Lakeshore are trickier. Would they be more themed? I’d argue that it’s likely they would be simply because they would have to “stand out” more on their own merits rather than rely on the DVC hook to entice guests.

I know exactly what you mean. I’ve even gone so far as to describe the FantasySprings Hotel as looking like it has a lesser-than DVC appendage. Meaning the newer wings are often is lower effort than the older. Such an odd hotel.

On the simplest level, however, the Disney that didn’t develop and relentlessly push the cash grab of DVC is also likely one that doesn’t make a bunch of the other disastrous changes to the resort over the last decades. It’s a different, better company. In that sense DVC is the symptom, not the disease.

Agree. I think at the end of the day you cannot separate out the two. It’s more a chicken and the egg than it’s empirically worse because it’s DVC.

 

[BrianLo]

Oh and what are the thoughts on Grand Destino Tower @Casper Gutman?

Admittedly I know nothing about Coronado Springs and have never stepped foot on the grounds before or after. But a rare modern cash tower. I'm curious if the consensus was that was better integrated than DVC?

 

[Bocabear]

I was only over there one time...though I stayed at Coronado Springs many years back and loved it... It does feel a little cut off from the rest of the world though..
The Gran Destino tower was nice and modern... I would rate it closely with the Poly tower... The restaurant at the top was excellent....and the room was nice, though the lighting was way too bright. Maybe someone forgot to turn them down for dining mode....who knows. Gran Destino has some lovely little details, but still felt out of place from the rest of the resort...even it's placement and how you got to it, made it feel like an add-on rater than integrated into the resort... We also ate at Three Rivers and found it extremely meh.

 

[easyrowrdw]

Oh and what are the thoughts on Grand Destino Tower @Casper Gutman?

Admittedly I know nothing about Coronado Springs and have never stepped foot on the grounds before or after. But a rare modern cash tower. I'm curious if the consensus was that was better integrated than DVC?

I don't think the Destino Tower feels integrated into that resort. It is totally different in appearance. It's also the check-in for all the resort, but most of the rooms are far from the tower. Even the preferred rooms are down a hallway, around a corner, and past the old check-in and restaurant area. I've heard the Tower is designed more for people at the resort for conventions than regular guests.

The DVC towers are, what, Bay Lake, Riviera, and Poly2? I get why Riviera doesn't look at all like CBR, but it's still awkward having them so close. I don't understand why they didn't try to more closely follow the original buildings for Bay Lake and Poly2. They managed it with Grand Floridian, Beach Club, and Wilderness Lodge, but I guess towers give you more rooms in a smaller footprint.

 

[BrianLo]

I don't think the Destino Tower feels integrated into that resort. It is totally different in appearance. It's also the check-in for all the resort, but most of the rooms are far from the tower. Even the preferred rooms are down a hallway, around a corner, and past the old check-in and restaurant area. I've heard the Tower is designed more for people at the resort for conventions than regular guests.

The DVC towers are, what, Bay Lake, Riviera, and Poly2? I get why Riviera doesn't look at all like CBR, but it's still awkward having them so close. I don't understand why they didn't try to more closely follow the original buildings for Bay Lake and Poly2. They managed it with Grand Floridian, Beach Club, and Wilderness Lodge, but I guess towers give you more rooms in a smaller footprint.

Thanks, I’m swinging back around to my thesis that it isn’t DVC, it’s just modern Disney’s approach to accommodations that is the actual problem.

 

[Disney Analyst]

I know exactly what you mean. I’ve even gone so far as to describe the FantasySprings Hotel as looking like it has a lesser-than DVC appendage. Meaning the newer wings are often is lower effort than the older. Such an odd hotel.

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Agree. I think at the end of the day you cannot separate out the two. It’s more a chicken and the egg than it’s empirically worse because it’s DVC.

Fantasy springs hotel is particularly bad when you compare it to the impeccably themed MiraCosta.


I think in general, they no longer want to (or feel the need) to theme hotels like they once did, on the outside at least.

I personally prefer a more modern design for the interiors, with light thematic touches to pull it together.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Can someone share with me what 90% of the past 5 pages has to do with Lakeshore Lodge construction?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

What Disney calls anything is 100% irrelevant. Somethings…like “amusement or theme parks” is a marketing tactic. Nobody should really care or be offended by either.

Things like “cast member” is part of a business psychology…however…cause “minimum wage” doesn’t have a nice ring to it.

Bravo to the kings of branding anyway

 

[Phicinfan]

Can someone share with me what 90% of the past 5 pages has to do with Lakeshore Lodge construction?

Nothing

 

[lazyboy97o]

Can someone share with me what 90% of the past 5 pages has to do with Lakeshore Lodge construction?

Why are the circumstances that contributed to a project considered so verboten once construction is underway?

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Fantasy springs hotel is particularly bad when you compare it to the impeccably themed MiraCosta.


I think in general, they no longer want to (or feel the need) to theme hotels like they once did, on the outside at least.

I personally prefer a more modern design for the interiors, with light thematic touches to pull it together.

I feel like they are going for modern/clean line version of the themes more than not being themed

Like the Poly Tower, I really like - the lobby is really nice, love the feel by Wailulu - but it is definitely a more modern take on the Polynesian/island vibe vs transporting you to the past like the original Poly does