DHS Toy Story Land expansion announced for Disney's Hollywood Studios

[MrPromey]

Sorry, I’m not following the 1995 comment. Don’t feel the need to explain, I really don’t care.

When someone announces something is meaningless in a construction timeline. Disney certainly does themselves no favors with their early announcing everything. They build slow, and somehow manage to make it seem even slower by teasing you well in advance of dirt moving.

Disney announces early THESE DAYS because they need to have something to tell all the people who buy tickets for D23 when they don't have anything else to announce. Need I remind of the year they offered Blue Sky projects they weren't even intending to build when announced?

I think this problem actually started with NFL when they were trying to take the wind out of Potter's sails but didn't have anything ready to start construction on yet.

It wasn't always like that.

We used to see earth move, people speculate, then often much later, Disney announce.

Of course you don't care about the 1995 comment - I'm pointing the flaw in your argument so why would you?

Disney ANNOUNCED AK in 1995 and then opened in 1998 which is the three year span everyone goes by.

Do you know when the first permit was pulled for that project? They say they started development as early as 1989. I'm sure that was planning but in terms of actual work, who's to say on this forum?

Or are we judging Universal by the first signs internet folks saw of land work and/or public records and Disney, just on when they decided to announce at a time when people wouldn't have been able to fly drones over a swampy part of their property more than a mile away from the nearest normal public areas of the rest of their resort and when you couldn't just hop online to pull records on permits?

 

[MrPromey]

Yeah Minions Land and Dreamworks LOOKS like they knocked it out fast. Both of them are a piece of work in my experience.

Definitely, definitely - totally not up to the craftsmanship of the shelter it took Disney multiple times longer to build in Toy Story Land to provide some shade!

Look, you guys can keep spinning your wheels all you want trying to say this isn't specifically a Disney problem but facts are facts:

From announcement to opening, with Epic, it'll have been about 5.5 years WITH covid and 4.5 years if you account for the year shutdown as a result of covid.

For AK, from announcement to opening was just a little over 3 years. So is four and a half years longer than three? Obviously but it's not the six and a half someone here is trying to claim.

If you want to argue that the construction efforts for AK which on opening was largely rockwork, landscapeing and unthemed animal care environments (minus the Tree of life and a single complex ride borrowing both it's ride system and track layout from a another pre-existing attraction) to what the cameras show us being constructed for Epic, sure I'll give it to you that it took Universal a year and a half longer from announcement but again, we're not actually talking about total construction time for AK when people say 3 years - is that the win you're looking for in this debate?

Anyway, look how fast that glorious DVC tower went up across Seven Seas lagoon. Apparently Disney doesn't have a problem with worker shortages when it comes to projects like that.

 

[lazyboy97o]

From announcement to opening, with Epic, it'll have been about 5.5 years WITH covid and 4.5 years if you account for the year shutdown as a result of covid.

For AK, from announcement to opening was just a little over 3 years. So is four and a half years longer than three? Obviously but it's not the six and a half someone here is trying to claim.

Using announcements to measure anything is ridiculous.

 

[MrPromey]

Using announcements to measure anything is ridiculous.

I totally agree. I'm just trying to work within the flimsy framework of the original argument posed to me but what they're trying do here is compare when Disney announced they were building AK (1995 which is where everyone is getting three years) to when people caught Universal working on Epic.

Again, I agree announcements as a measuring point are ridiculous but I think using the announcement of one park against when the internet figured out work on another had started is even more ridiculous.

I mean, apples to apples, right?

Do you disagree?

 

[GoofGoof]

I don't know. Seems like they managed to knock the Illuminations Minions Land and Dreamworks land out pretty fast.

Those aren't whole theme parks and chunks of both were re-theming of existing structures but they're both active sections (particularly the minions) of an existing park impacting the work that could be done and while not major in scale, a whole lot more involved than an outdoor shelter like this.

Anyway, Universal announced they were building a new park on August 1st, 2019 and their official opening date is May 22nd 2025 so I'm not sure the math is mathing in your statement. You might want to go re-run those numbers.

Not my math. I was quoting another post but I assume the timeline is for actual construction not time from formal announcement to open. Either way, I actually think given Covid and the lasting issues with labor shortages that 6 years is pretty good for a whole new park on new land. Even so, it’s still almost twice as long as it took to construct IOA in the 90s. It just takes longer to build stuff today. I don’t know the timelines for Minions or Dreamworks land but they are more minor additions and/ or rethemes vs a new park or even a new land.

Back to the original topic, there’s no excuse to have to wait this long for some shade in Toy Story Land. It didn’t take Disney years to construct this, just years to decide to finish constructing it.

 

[Gusey]

I totally agree. I'm just trying to work within the flimsy framework of the original argument posed to me but what they're trying do here is compare when Disney announced they were building AK (1995 which is where everyone is getting three years) to when people caught Universal working on Epic.

Again, I agree announcements as a measuring point are ridiculous but I think using the announcement of one park against when the internet figured out work on another had started is even more ridiculous.

I mean, apples to apples, right?

Do you disagree?

Whilst AK was officially announced in 1995 and construction began in August 1995, a 4th theme park themed to animals was announced in 1990:

https://archive.ph/20220223052400/https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1990-01-15-9001153624-story.html

Animal Kingdom was greenlit by 1992 according to "The Making of Animal Kingdom" by Melody Malmberg (Joe Rhode's wife).

 

[MrPromey]

Not my math. I was quoting another post but I assume the timeline is for actual construction not time from formal announcement to open. Either way, I actually think given Covid and the lasting issues with labor shortages that 6 years is pretty good for a whole new park on new land. Even so, it’s still almost twice as long as it took to construct IOA in the 90s. It just takes longer to build stuff today. I don’t know the timelines for Minions or Dreamworks land but they are more minor additions and/ or rethemes vs a new park or even a new land.

Back to the original topic, there’s no excuse to have to wait this long for some shade in Toy Story Land. It didn’t take Disney years to construct this, just years to decide to finish constructing it.

Yeah, I was comparing the Milions and Dreamworks to the shade as a comparison of polar opposites.

I think we agree in principle - it did not take six years to put this in. It possibly took a couple of months to fabricate and a few weeks to install. It's not like the ladder was there for six years straight, right?

It just wasn't a priority for Disney and that's a shame because I'm sure there are lots of guests who've passed through this land since it opened who would have benefited from management caring about their comfort a little more and them getting this done a little sooner.

 

[MrPromey]

Whilst AK was officially announced in 1995 and construction began in August 1995, a 4th theme park themed to animals was announced in 1990:

https://archive.ph/20220223052400/https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1990-01-15-9001153624-story.html

Animal Kingdom was greenlit by 1992 according to "The Making of Animal Kingdom" by Melody Malmberg (Joe Rhode's wife).

What's your source for when construction began?

That article says something was announced in 1990 which tracks with them supposedly starting to develop it in 1989 as they've previously said but it mentions nothing about the start of construction which isn't surprising since it's from 1990.

We know they formally announced it as an animal park in 1995 and that by 1996 they'd completed forming the topography for the safari tour and were planting/transporting plants for it along with the installation of animal care and holding for that attraction but where are you getting 1995 as the definitive date they began to move dirt?

Given the nature of where it's located, I'd have to imagine reclamation alone would have taken more than a year.

As far as I know, everyone is touting 1995 because that is the date Disney announced but if you can give an actual reliable source for the start of work, I'll be happy to give up the ghost on this one.

 

[Gusey]

What's your source for when construction began?

That article says something was announced in 1990 which tracks with them supposedly starting to develop it in 1989 as they've previously said but it mentions nothing about the start of construction which isn't surprising since it's from 1990.

We know they formally announced it as an animal park in 1995 and that by 1996 they'd completed forming the topography for the safari tour and were planting/transporting plants for it along with the installation of animal care and holding for that attraction but where are you getting 1995 as the definitive date they began to move dirt?

Given the nature of where it's located, I'd have to imagine reclamation alone would have taken more than a year.

As far as I know, everyone is touting 1995 because that is the date Disney announced but if you can give an actual reliable source for the start of work, I'll be happy to give up the ghost on this one.

This website and the Melody Malmberg book I think. I'll check my copy of the book later and see if I can find a direct quote for you

 

[Gusey]

What's your source for when construction began?

That article says something was announced in 1990 which tracks with them supposedly starting to develop it in 1989 as they've previously said but it mentions nothing about the start of construction which isn't surprising since it's from 1990.

We know they formally announced it as an animal park in 1995 and that by 1996 they'd completed forming the topography for the safari tour and were planting/transporting plants for it along with the installation of animal care and holding for that attraction but where are you getting 1995 as the definitive date they began to move dirt?

Given the nature of where it's located, I'd have to imagine reclamation alone would have taken more than a year.

As far as I know, everyone is touting 1995 because that is the date Disney announced but if you can give an actual reliable source for the start of work, I'll be happy to give up the ghost on this one.

Here's a quote from the Melody Malmberg book saying constructionon AK began in August 1995:
"Back at Imagineering there was elation, adulation and frantic activity. Jack Blitch recalls the fallout [of the announcement]: "Everyone realised it's a real project!" Bids on contracts came in on or under budget. The earth-moving for Disney's Animal Kingdom Theme Park began in August. With opening day set for Spring 1998, a mere two-and-a-half years remained to build Disney's largest-ever theme park."

 

[GoofGoof]

Yeah, I was comparing the Milions and Dreamworks to the shade as a comparison of polar opposites.

I think we agree in principle - it did not take six years to put this in. It possibly took a couple of months to fabricate and a few weeks to install. It's not like the ladder was there for six years straight, right?

It just wasn't a priority for Disney and that's a shame because I'm sure there are lots of guests who've passed through this land since it opened who would have benefited from management caring about their comfort a little more and them getting this done a little sooner.

Yeah it probably took a few months at most of actual construction. I believe it was only greenlit after someone from Disney witnessed me nearly sweating to death walking through the land one hot Summer day. If that ladder was there I would have attempted to stand in its shadow. I have no evidence the decision was based on my desires, but the timing lines up

The crazy part to me is Disney actually usually does consider things like the heat in FL in the Summer when building attractions and when designing queues. If you go to a place like LEGOLAND you appreciate more what Disney has done. I have no idea why they didn’t incorporate more shade in the design and why it took years to add some.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

Yeah it probably took a few months at most of actual construction. I believe it was only greenlit after someone from Disney witnessed me nearly sweating to death walking through the land one hot Summer day. If that ladder was there I would have attempted to stand in its shadow. I have no evidence the decision was based on my desires, but the timing lines up

The crazy part to me is Disney actually usually does consider things like the heat in FL in the Summer when building attractions and when designing queues. If you go to a place like LEGOLAND you appreciate more what Disney has done. I have no idea why they didn’t incorporate more shade in the design and why it took years to add some.

My bet is definitely financial. Different departments fighting over a shared pool of money. Certain departments got it easier or put in their requests earlier while the others had to wait to spread out the cash flow. You can see it when one park gets a few extra stuff like MKs small enhancements recently while HS had a TON of money dumped into it and will get it again

 

[GoofGoof]

My bet is definitely financial. Different departments fighting over a shared pool of money. Certain departments got it easier or put in their requests earlier while the others had to wait to spread out the cash flow. You can see it when one park gets a few extra stuff like MKs small enhancements recently while HS had a TON of money dumped into it and will get it again

It always comes down to money

This is why I consider it a fail in the design of the land. If they took this into consideration from day 1 it could have been paid for with the initial project budget.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It always comes down to money

This is why I consider it a fail in the design of the land. If they took this into consideration from day 1 it could have been paid for with the initial project budget.

But then you’re paying for it instead of something else. Easy to not do it first knowing the park will want it enough to pay for it later.

 

[GoofGoof]

But then you’re paying for it instead of something else. Easy to not do it first knowing the park will want it enough to pay for it later.

I guess, but we are talking about some shade structures. The cost is a rounding error on the total project cost.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

I guess, but we are talking about some shade structures. The cost is a rounding error on the total project cost.

We know thats not really true especially with projects being overbudget

 

[GoofGoof]

We know thats not really true especially with projects being overbudget

Unless I’m missing something we are talking about a shade structures with some light theming. The original Toy Story Land project had a budget just under $300M and that may not have included the sit down restaurant that opened later. How much could this shade structure cost?

 

[James Alucobond]

Unless I’m missing something we are talking about a shade structures with some light theming. The original Toy Story Land project had a budget just under $300M and that may not have included the sit down restaurant that opened later. How much could this shade structure cost?

This particular shade structure is a tiny strip bandage on a gaping wound. It's true that it alone probably does not represent significant cost; in fact, its budget was likely tied into the kitchen expansion at Lunch Box. However, the fact that a massive line of umbrellas constantly dots the approach to Slinky Dog demonstrates that tackling the issue in its entirety would probably be quite costly and need much more design work than the couple of K'Nex shelters in this update.

 

[GoofGoof]

This particular shade structure is a tiny strip bandage on a gaping wound. It's true that it alone probably does not represent significant cost; in fact, its budget was likely tied into the kitchen expansion at Lunch Box. However, the fact that a massive line of umbrellas constantly dots the approach to Slinky Dog demonstrates that tackling the issue in its entirety would probably be quite costly and need much more design work than the couple of K'Nex shelters in this update.

Yeah, I don’t disagree that the shade situation in the whole land is an epic fail. I still think it’s a design flaw and I agree it would be a lot more difficult and expensive to try to fix it now.