Disney begins sales of new 5 million dollar 'Four Seasons Private Residences' at Golden Oak

[Next Big Thing]

This is beyond what I can fathom. Who needs a house like this? Really?

Nobody NEEDS one. But if you're stupid rich, what's there to lose, especially if you're a big Disney fan. They see this as an investment more than anything.

This is the rich peoples version of DVC basically.

 

[FrostyNaples]

Only 5 million? I'll only look if they're at least 10 million. --- strange times we live in.

If they really want to do something they should build housing for cast. Perhaps name it Progress City or give it a catchy acronym like EPCOT.

None of these will sell for just the 5mil entry, none of them.

5mil gets you the 'standard' builders finish - The clients buying these homes are not the caliber of the 'standard' finish.

The estimated 147 families buying these (think global buyers here) will probably double the cost with personal interior finishes, or more.

This is going to be an elite buyers market.

 

[roj2323]

None of these will sell for just the 5mil entry, none of them.

5mil gets you the 'standard' builders finish - The clients buying these homes are not the caliber of the 'standard' finish.

The estimated 147 families buying these (think global buyers here) will probably double the cost with personal interior finishes, or more.

This is going to be an elite buyers market.

You obviously didn't get my sarcasm. I've worked on houses like the ones they are building, I'm well aware of the mentality of the affluent.

 

[KeeKee]

Nobody NEEDS one. But if you're stupid rich, what's there to lose, especially if you're a big Disney fan. They see this as an investment more than anything.

This is the rich peoples version of DVC basically.

I guess I was having a bit of a "tree-hugging" moment...

 

[World_Showcase_Lover007]

Oh, no, you are definitely NOT becoming a resident of WDW. The properties are de-annexed from the RCID as they as sold. That's why the materials say things like "historical Disney World property." No different than Celebration in that respect.

I was wondering the same thing because I know that Disney will not let anyone actually live on property because of RCID/municipal decision making. Good to know now how they are getting around this...

 

[World_Showcase_Lover007]

I also like the disclaimer on the residences webpage stating how this development actually has nothing to do with Four Seasons, as far as being owned or operated; and that Four Seasons simply leased its trademark to the developer. But this, of course, is a common practice in real estate nowadays.

 

[lobelia]

You would surprised what they spend their money on. One project I did had $800,000 in solid mahogany windows.
it.

Solid mahogany huh. I'd call those doors. Glass is so passé.

 

[R W B]

This^^^

I think they have more room to expand if they wish, but that will depend on the market. It is also my understanding that the number of lotsrs can vary in developments like this as some can build houses that span multiple lots. One of the first 10k + square foot single family homes I did in my career was built on 2 lots in a similar development

That makes sense. Make sure the demand is there before putting it all up for sale.

Are you a developer?, architect?, contractor?

 

[Master Yoda]

That makes sense. Make sure the demand is there before putting it all up for sale.

Are you a developer?, architect?, contractor?

Engineer. I design and engineer wood trusses for both commercial and residential construction. Houses like the ones you would find in Golden Oaks are pretty much my day in, day out work life.

 

[bristol's mom]

I have heard most of the residents in that area are mostly international families.

Has to be because who makes this kind of money in Orlando? I can see the Bin Laden's buying a home here and they could easily keep it occupied year-round since there are estimated to be 600 family members.

 

[rob0519]

Yes that happens if people want a bigger house or more room in general. Some folks don't like the neighbor right outside their window. That's another problem with all this, it's not downtown in a city so why no land with these houses? At 5 million I would want some more room not postage stamp sized lots. Also some of these folks will have staff and or security with them and those houses don't seem to have a separate place for them. You're not going to have the staff in your main house. You could but they are general in a separate wing or building.

Why no land? Simple. The less land you're sold, the more land there is to squeeze in several more houses and the profit that goes along with them. You want more room, buy somewhere else or pay for another lot. Real Estate Sub Division Construction 101.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Tighter lots also play a role in image building. It is an attempt to project ideas of walk-ability, human scale and community. To make things more quaint.

 

[Master Yoda]

Why no land? Simple. The less land you're sold, the more land there is to squeeze in several more houses and the profit that goes along with them. You want more room, buy somewhere else or pay for another lot. Real Estate Sub Division Construction 101.

Exactly. For your average subdivision the builder/developer will either adjust the plans to a particular width or set up the lots to match up with a current set of various plans of the same width. This way you have nearly every house in the subdivision built up right to the BRLs and you sell the most number of houses.

 

[prberk]

You know, I was at Monticello last month, and this has really made me think. Monticello is, of course, the historic home of Thomas Jefferson -- the great inventor and father of our country (writer of the Declaration of Independence and a major contributor to the constitution of our country). It sits atop a mountain in Albemarle County, just outside of Charlottesville, with great view of the city and UVa. It is on the back of older nickels, and is probably the most famous residence in the United States (second perhaps to Elvis' Graceland).

But is it also considerably smaller than these and other "McMansions" built these days. In fact, so is Graceland. If you have ever taken a tour of either of these, especially Monticello, you will be struck with how outsized our current tastes have come for the way even the rich and powerful live. It helps put some things in perspective.

I am primarily a conservative, with hands-off approach to the market, believing that the market decides.

In some ways I find myself hoping that the market will eventually show some of this excess to be rediculous and counter to what Walt intended, and to good sense. It is clearly a money-grab, obviously, but more than that, I just think it is gaudy and contrary to so many things.

 

[Master Yoda]

You know, I was at Monticello last month, and this has really made me think. Monticello is, of course, the historic home of Thomas Jefferson -- the great inventor and father of our country (writer of the Declaration of Independence and a major contributor to the constitution of our country). It sits atop a mountain in Albemarle County, just outside of Charlottesville, with great view of the city and UVa. It is on the back of older nickels, and is probably the most famous residence in the United States (second perhaps to Elvis' Graceland).

But is it also considerably smaller than these and other "McMansions" built these days. In fact, so is Graceland. If you have ever taken a tour of either of these, especially Monticello, you will be struck with how outsized our current tastes have come for the way even the rich and powerful live. It helps put some things in perspective.

I am primarily a conservative, with hands-off approach to the market, believing that the market decides.

In some ways I find myself hoping that the market will eventually show some of this excess to be rediculous and counter to what Walt intended, and to good sense. It is clearly a money-grab, obviously, but more than that, I think just think it is gaudy and contrary to so many things.

While I am sure there are other factors involved, modern technology has made larger and much more complex structures easier to build and less expensive to boot.

Back when the homes you mentioned were built, post and beam was the primary method of construction. Not only did this put constraints on the design and appearance of the house, but it worked to limit its size as well. Post and beam is also a very time consuming process especially when you get into more complicated designs.

Conventional wood beams can only span so far until you need additional bearing. While you could technically build almost anything, you quickly reached a point where things got exponentially more expensive.

Fast forward to today and your biggest limiting factor is what you can physically ship to a job site. Clear spanned roofs in excess of 50' are common place and use nothing more than 2x4's. Up the lumber size to 2x6 and we can max out our shipping length which is around 80'.

Assembly is also made much easier. Setting the trusses on the projects like the ones you will find in Golden Oaks often only take 2-5 days vs weeks of conventional framing.

 

[prberk]

While I am sure there are other factors involved, modern technology has made larger and much more complex structures easier to build and less expensive to boot.

Back when the homes you mentioned were built, post and beam was the primary method of construction. Not only did this put constraints on the design and appearance of the house, but it worked to limit its size as well. Post and beam is also a very time consuming process especially when you get into more complicated designs.

Conventional wood beams can only span so far until you need additional bearing. While you could technically build almost anything, you quickly reached a point where things got exponentially more expensive.

Fast forward to today and your biggest limiting factor is what you can physically ship to a job site. Clear spanned roofs in excess of 50' are common place and use nothing more than 2x4's. Up the lumber size to 2x6 and we can max out our shipping length which is around 80'.

Assembly is also made much easier. Setting the trusses on the projects like the ones you will find in Golden Oaks often only take 2-5 days vs weeks of conventional framing.

You are right about the construction methods and advances in technology.

I guess I am more philosophical about it in the long run.

I cannot put my finger on exactly why, but so much about this Golden Oak project just strikes me as cold and wrong. I do know that the Monticello and Graceland visits did remind me that so much about a "mansion" and intrinsic value of anything as a thing of value is inherently guided by our notion of importance. This much is true.

But beyond that I think there is something more haunting me about Golden Oak. I don't know if it is more that it seems so crass or that it goes so far against what Disney has so long stood far. Yes, Disney World has long been a moneymaking machine, and even had overpriced hotels, and even lately has slipped in service (bringing the value of the hotels somewhat into question), but has also always been ostensibly about the dreams and aspirations of common folks. It is hardly ever about the prince -- unless the prince (or king or queen) needed to learn to be humble. And the parks and resorts, while sometimes pushing the limits on expense for "normal" people, have also remained in most ways accessible.

So, maybe that is part of it. But something makes this whole project to me come up feeling that it is very cold. I am not sure I would ever care to live there, even if I were a billionaire.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Houses also had to be smaller because they lacked mechanical systems. A massive house today is cool because it is pumped full of cold air, not because of how it is designed into the local environment.

Golden Oak is cold because it really is the exact opposite of what EPCOT was about. The very sort of place that Walt Disney was reacting against. It is entirely automobile focused. It is live only, no work. No openness or sharing of an idea. It is the same tired, old, subdivision concept except with Walt Disney World branding.

 

[prberk]

@lazyboy97o , I think you are right on why it is cold to me. I mean, the only way I would EVER consider buying one of these places if I had crazy amounts of money were if I could justify it by often bringing people to stay for the vacation of a lifetime for people who would never otherwise be able to do it (or maybe like the kids who have terminal diseases). But the sad fact is that the homeowners' association in such a community would probably disallow such sharing of it. Too much riff-raff and too many "guest passes" through the security gate. Not certain, but it would seem that would be the case for such an exclusive community wishing to keep up their property values -- which fits in with your statement. Exclusivity was the opposite of Walt's dream. He did, in fact, recognize that there would be suburbs of EPCOT (in the outer circles), but they still participated in the whole. Which is not really the case in an exclusive, gated community of McMansions with piped-in "magic" and paid services to decorate your house for you during the holidays.

I don't think that the family in the Carousel of Progress would recognize their home in Golden Oak, no matter what year it is. But maybe I am wrong.

I know that this has sounded like I just have a stump to grind against the rich, but that is not the case. (In that case I would have something against The Grand Floridian.) But I have really tried to figure out why Golden Oak itself so disappoints and unsetttles me as a fan of Disney and WDW. And I think that LazyBoy97 is right in a lot of it. It is not any one thing within it, but more the concept and whole of it. It is contrary completely to Walt Disney World's original purpose and vision, even as flawed as it might have become over the years.

 

[Master Yoda]

@lazyboy97o , I think you are right on why it is cold to me. I mean, the only way I would EVER consider buying one of these places if I had crazy amounts of money were if I could justify it by often bringing people to stay for the vacation of a lifetime for people who would never otherwise be able to do it (or maybe like the kids who have terminal diseases). But the sad fact is that the homeowners' association in such a community would probably disallow such sharing of it. Too much riff-raff and too many "guest passes" through the security gate. Not certain, but it would seem that would be the case for such an exclusive community wishing to keep up their property values -- which fits in with your statement. Exclusivity was the opposite of Walt's dream. He did, in fact, recognize that there would be suburbs of EPCOT (in the outer circles), but they still participated in the whole. Which is not really the case in an exclusive, gated community of McMansions with piped-in "magic" and paid services to decorate your house for you during the holidays.

I don't think that the family in the Carousel of Progress would recognize their home in Golden Oak, no matter what year it is. But maybe I am wrong.

I know that this has sounded like I just have a stump to grind against the rich, but that is not the case. (In that case I would have something against The Grand Floridian.) But I have really tried to figure out why Golden Oak itself so disappoints and unsetttles me as a fan of Disney and WDW. And I think that LazyBoy97 is right in a lot of it. It is not any one thing within it, but more the concept and whole of it. It is contrary completely to Walt Disney World's original purpose and vision, even as flawed as it might have become over the years.

It is hard to wrap your brain around it, but there is a small segment of our population where $5 million dollars is chump change. I will never be that guy no matter how much I have in the bank, but they do exist.

Ratios are something that will put things into perspective. A person with $500 million in the bank spending $5 million on a home is the same as a person $500 in the bank spending $5. It also does not hurt that the $5 million they drop on the house will most likely make them money 10 +/- years later.

 

[prberk]

I do have one related question: Does anyone know if this whole community and Four-Seasons relationship came about in some way related to that time that the Board of Directors met with a foreign (middle-Eastern, I think) dignitary about the possible sale and lease-back at the time of the whole WDW resort? It seems I remember him having a Four-Seasons connection, and maybe some other investment connection with WDW that put him in a good position to do something like this. My memory is foggy, but I seem to remember some connections there. Am I off-base here?
If I am not, maybe this is a result of some deal they made to give him significant part for a Four Seasons resort and community, but not the big deal. Just wondering.