Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Opens 2025

[tommyhawkins]

2024 is rather.... ambitious.

It's possible the roadways won't be completed until Spring of 2025 according to Alicia...

it is slightly ambititious, but theyre working north from Universal Boulevard up towards Sandlake, so it could well be theyre done the first half and what i think theyre calling Universal Way into the park, also rumours floating it could be partially opened, by late 2024. People arent really appreciating how a lot of the difficult work has actually already been done, and vertical construction will be fairly quick

my epic universe thread

 

[tommyhawkins]

Yes but they dithered and delayed starting construction, and then covid did come. So now what ... when are they going to commence construction?

We've had no updates nothing. Like i said, i'm not confident they are going to go ahead with this, not in the near future. We'd still be looking at ariel photos of green fields next year. Let's see .

Actually work continued for a long time after the park shut down, as I have already said the real time consuming activities of laying utilities and cleaning up toxic waste, raising the land by many feet is done.. Permits continued to be issued repeatedly throughout the pandemic. There have been plenty of updates if you look in the right places, myself and Alicia have been keeping people apprised the whole time.

If anything the delay has occured because crews are coming off Beijing later than expected, the concrete plant is almost set up....by Autum we will probably start to see concrete being poured, then things will happen very quickly as a lot of things are either on site or ready or prefabbed in warehouses just waiting to be installed.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Actually work continued for a long time after the park shut down, as I have already said the real time consuming activities of laying utilities and cleaning up toxic waste, raising the land by many feet is done.. Permits continued to be issued repeatedly throughout the pandemic. There have been plenty of updates if you look in the right places, myself and Alicia have been keeping people apprised the whole time.

If anything the delay has occured because crews are coming off Beijing later than expected, the concrete plant is almost set up....by Autum we will probably start to see concrete being poured, then things will happen very quickly as a lot of things are either on site or ready or prefabbed in warehouses just waiting to be installed.

The delay had nothing to do with Universal Studios Beijing. You don’t hire a bunch of new people and then lay off nearly all of them and more because a few people are still working on another project.

The design work that continued resulting in building permits was largely complete and handled by third parties overseen by a skeleton crew. Waiting to submit for building permits beyond 2020 would have required additional design work to meet the latest codes. This though does put a time limit on the delay.

 

[celluloid]

People love to hate Shrek and have been saying they know it is leaving any year now for a long time. Of course it is showing its age and is not the strongest 4D show. The fact that it was oversaturated and released on netflix and marketed as a halloween shrot many saw cheapened it a lot as well. Even more so now in a park full of screens and motion based attractions. I would love to have Hitchcock back so naturally I have a bias as well, but it is not often near the top of replacements for like many things, a lot of smaller reasons than people realize.

Vast audience. babies to grandmas. It is the only thing in the park left that moves that does not have a height requirement. It has the largest accessibility of all attractions at Universal as things that used to not have any height requirements or much motion have changed into things that do limit the audience appeal.

Operations are insanely cheap. When crowds are low it can operate one preshow and theater, half of the building is "rented" by Entertainment in the past for HHN house venue location while the rest can still operate. In peak times or as needed it can operate the second preshow and theater.

All of it is a very low budget attraction including low labor. People walk out generally happy and spending in the gift shop or taking time at the successful photo opportunity across the street.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Alicia took some Disney comparision stuff I put on twitter and made an awesome video for it. Lots of Disney comparisons in there

Just ran across that on YT. What was really interesting to me (other than the sheer size, the possible hotel expansion plots and size of a few of the lands) - was moving a lot of the backstage area at the current resort over to EPIC - and freeing up a substantial area for expansion there. That's a pretty impressive video.

Funny that I just cancelled my Disney vacation over Thanksgiving and rebooked Sapphire Falls. The last couple trips - I'm coming to the conclusion that I just have a better time at Universal. Wasn't that way not too long ago. Makes me feel better about the last Uni Survey I did where my comment was: "Please don't Disney-ize Universal". I really hope they don't.

 

[tommyhawkins]

Just ran across that on YT. What was really interesting to me (other than the sheer size, the possible hotel expansion plots and size of a few of the lands) - was moving a lot of the backstage area at the current resort over to EPIC - and freeing up a substantial area for expansion there. That's a pretty impressive video.

Funny that I just cancelled my Disney vacation over Thanksgiving and rebooked Sapphire Falls. The last couple trips - I'm coming to the conclusion that I just have a better time at Universal. Wasn't that way not too long ago. Makes me feel better about the last Uni Survey I did where my comment was: "Please don't Disney-ize Universal". I really hope they don't.

Glad you enjoyed, the BOH move stuff is super interesting, a really conservative guess is that USF imediately gains around 15-20 acres once this this move happens, so we could see some really interesting additions happen there that kinda means you wont just choose to go Epic instead, youll have a reason to spend more days. Back in the 90s Eisner lost 5m visitors to Disney World over 5 years after price scalping for a decade. And of course they responded by building DAK, Disney fans have a lot to gain by the success of EU, im not sure everyone makes that connection that this is a good thing for everyone

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Disney fans have a lot to gain by the success of EU, im not sure everyone makes that connection that this is a good thing for everyone

Agreed. They both play for "Team Orlando" and against "Team Vegas", "Team Cruise", "Team Europe" etc. The main objective is to grow the size of the pie. Then Disney and Uni can fight over the slices.

 

[The Grand Inquisitor]

Here's the video of the Dragon show in Beijing that's coming to the park. The show looks really good!

 

[tommyhawkins]

Here's the video of the Dragon show in Beijing that's coming to the park. The show looks really good!

looks fantastic, but its rumoured to be up in the air if we will get it at Epic

 

[The Grand Inquisitor]

looks fantastic, but its rumoured to be up in the air if we will get it at Epic

According to Alicia Stella it's still coming to the park.

 

[tommyhawkins]

According to Alicia Stella it's still coming to the park.

I know Alicia well, I've produced content for several of her videos.

If it's future is in doubt as rumoured it's probably a question of whether its the best use of space because the theatre only holds ~750 and the two main rides in the land will likely have some form of height restriction so it might be a higher capacity dark ride is what will provide better throughput.

 

[Poseidon Quest]

I know Alicia well, I've produced content for several of her videos.

If it's future is in doubt as rumoured it's probably a question of whether its the best use of space because the theatre only holds ~750 and the two main rides in the land will likely have some form of height restriction so it might be a higher capacity dark ride is what will provide better throughput.

In what capacity do you work with that channel?

As much as I'd be interested in more rides coming to the park, I was recently contacted by a source who made the claim that Epic might not be nearly as ambitious as we previously presumed due to cuts from the pandemic. I'm not sure if the source is reliable or not, but they made a compelling argument that leads me to believe what vague details they provided.

 

[MisterPenguin]

In what capacity do you work with that channel?

As much as I'd be interested in more rides coming to the park, I was recently contacted by a source who made the claim that Epic might not be nearly as ambitious as we previously presumed due to cuts from the pandemic. I'm not sure if the source is reliable or not, but they made a compelling argument that leads me to believe what vague details they provided.

That rumor was expressed here about half a year ago if I remember correctly.

Alternatively, another rumor had the initial park being less ambitious with the rest of the plans added later over time.

It all depends, I would think, on Comcast's cash flow. Everyone thought they were going to power thru the pandemic and keep building (unlike those scaredy cats at Disney), but even Comcast had to bow to financial reality and temporarily mothball the project and to stop announcing a completion year.

Some people who are gangbusters for this need to temper their excitement and optimism in face of a world wide pandemic reality.

I do hope Comcast can build a complete and great theme park and do it soon. But I also know just how difficult that would be for them or any company. Just look at how Disney scaled back the Epcot refurbishment projects and the 50th Anniversary plans.

 

[Andrew25]

I'm hoping Comcast is seeing the crowds at HHN and the near 100% occupancy rates on weekends. Universal has been given the best opportunity to take significant attendance away from Disney.

As for budget cuts, I could see Monsters being 1/2 of what they originally wanted to do and maybe the Gerstlaurer Sky Fly flat ride from HTTYD get cut before they start cutting more stuff.

 

[tommyhawkins]

That rumor was expressed here about half a year ago if I remember correctly.

Alternatively, another rumor had the initial park being less ambitious with the rest of the plans added later over time.

It all depends, I would think, on Comcast's cash flow. Everyone thought they were going to power thru the pandemic and keep building (unlike those scaredy cats at Disney), but even Comcast had to bow to financial reality and temporarily mothball the project and to stop announcing a completion year.

Some people who are gangbusters for this need to temper their excitement and optimism in face of a world wide pandemic reality.

I do hope Comcast can build a complete and great theme park and do it soon. But I also know just how difficult that would be for them or any company. Just look at how Disney scaled back the Epcot refurbishment projects and the 50th Anniversary plans.

Comcast's cash flow has been good throughout the whole pandemic, despite the fact they did continue building an entire new park including a $300m commitment to getting it opened this year they were still in the black with the parks devision much earlier than Disney.
From all the earnings calls ive heard from both companies, Comcast actually see the parks division as a continued growth potential asset, where as Disney are putting all their eggs into the DMED division basket at the moment.

In what capacity do you work with that channel?

As much as I'd be interested in more rides coming to the park, I was recently contacted by a source who made the claim that Epic might not be nearly as ambitious as we previously presumed due to cuts from the pandemic. I'm not sure if the source is reliable or not, but they made a compelling argument that leads me to believe what vague details they provided.

Check the most recent video, linked further back in the chat, as one example.

It's not really abnormal for stuff to be cut from a project, or budgets to be trimmed down. But it's not always money is it? For example, the VR ride set up as second ride in the Potter land included its own expansion pad, now there is talk of that ride being moved to USF.....because that park is going to need stuff to balance the attendance and it also creates a bigger space at EU they can either add another (bigger) potter ride later or use the 4-5acres for a new land. It's going to be tricky to balance the crowds across the three parks, and to avoid everyone ditching IOA/USF in favour of Epic when they have the option to start small and add to it later. So the source may be partially right, but maybe not for the reasons most would think. We are going to get an awesome park, just maybe not all of it on Day 1, which strategy is evidenced with previous Universal parks including Beijing right now.

 

[Poseidon Quest]

It's not really abnormal for stuff to be cut from a project, or budgets to be trimmed down. But it's not always money is it? For example, the VR ride set up as second ride in the Potter land included its own expansion pad, now there is talk of that ride being moved to USF.....because that park is going to need stuff to balance the attendance and it also creates a bigger space at EU they can either add another (bigger) potter ride later or use the 4-5acres for a new land. It's going to be tricky to balance the crowds across the three parks, and to avoid everyone ditching IOA/USF in favour of Epic when they have the option to start small and add to it later. So the source may be partially right, but maybe not for the reasons most would think. We are going to get an awesome park, just maybe not all of it on Day 1, which strategy is evidenced with previous Universal parks including Beijing right now.

The source made more concerning claims than simply the practicality of changing plans. They made the claim that because Comcast made the choice to purge their senior Creative staff and almost the entirety of the Epic team, that a lot of experienced people would no longer be working on the project. Instead, Universal is bringing on their team from Beijing at 1/3 of the cost and is about at half the staffing that the original, now laid-off team was. This particular source also disclosed that they had been laid-off after many years of loyalty to the Universal brand and really has no other work opportunities, so I'm sure that there's a bias there as well, but I still think it's concerning information nonetheless. They described the new plans for the park as "B-Level" in scope.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Comcast's cash flow has been good throughout the whole pandemic, despite the fact they did continue building an entire new park including a $300m commitment to getting it opened this year they were still in the black with the parks devision much earlier than Disney.
From all the earnings calls ive heard from both companies, Comcast actually see the parks division as a continued growth potential asset, where as Disney are putting all their eggs into the DMED division basket at the moment.

Comcast's cash flow wasn't so good that they didn't indefinitely delay the building of EU for a while.

Comcast's cash flow wasn't so good that there isn't rumors of scaling back the scope of EU, at least temporarily.

Comcast's cash flow wasn't so good they were able to outbid Disney on the purchase of Fox.

Comcast's cash flow wasn't so good that they didn't have massive furloughs and lay-offs.

Just because streaming is currently Disney's number one priority doesn't mean the parks aren't also still getting billions of dollars in capex for the parks. There a a ton of projects that Disney paused and have restarted. But, there are a few cuts and scale backs. It would be credulous to think that Comcast isn't under the same constraints and making the same decisions.

Disney also considers their parks as a asset, BTW. That wasn't an issue I brought up, tho.

 

[tommyhawkins]

Comcast's cash flow wasn't so good that they didn't indefinitely delay the building of EU for a while.

It was actually decided at end of 2020 long before announcement that it was back on

Comcast's cash flow wasn't so good that there isn't rumors of scaling back the scope of EU, at least temporarily.

Comcast's cash flow wasn't so good they were able to outbid Disney on the purchase of Fox.

My understanding of the deal was Comcasts was all cash offer of around 52bn and then disney upped their offer by including stock. and they went and bought Sky instead. Also this happened in 2018, so not sure the relevance of Covid loss of business?

Comcast's cash flow wasn't so good that they didn't have massive furloughs and lay-offs.

Who continued to pay their staff before this though?

Just because streaming is currently Disney's number one priority doesn't mean the parks aren't also still getting billions of dollars in capex for the parks.

There a a ton of projects that Disney paused and have restarted. But, there are a few cuts and scale backs. It would be credulous to think that Comcast isn't under the same constraints and making the same decisions.

I never said that had no financial considerations but when you said "Everyone thought they were going to power thru the pandemic and keep building (unlike those scaredy cats at Disney), but even Comcast had to bow to financial reality and temporarily mothball the project and to stop announcing a completion year." It had me scratching my head as they continued to build Beijing, SNW Japan, SNW Hollywood, SLoP, Velocicoaster, and made a decision about EU very quickly that it was still happening. And Disney so far have only spent 44% of what they normally would on domestic Capex this year. Covid might be the same reality for both businesses but it doesnt mean their decisions have been

 

[JT3000]

The source made more concerning claims than simply the practicality of changing plans. They made the claim that because Comcast made the choice to purge their senior Creative staff and almost the entirety of the Epic team, that a lot of experienced people would no longer be working on the project. Instead, Universal is bringing on their team from Beijing at 1/3 of the cost and is about at half the staffing that the original, now laid-off team was. This particular source also disclosed that they had been laid-off after many years of loyalty to the Universal brand and really has no other work opportunities, so I'm sure that there's a bias there as well, but I still think it's concerning information nonetheless. They described the new plans for the park as "B-Level" in scope.

This sounds like a classic case of, "You can't replace me!" It doesn't really tell us anything objective. Also, why would there even be new plans at this point in the process, if not for budget cuts? Just because they laid people off, that doesn't mean they can't still use the plans that are already in place. Wizarding World's design was overseen by a guy who jumped to Disney before it could be built. They still built it without him.

 

[MisterPenguin]

And Disney so far have only spent 44% of what they normally would on domestic Capex this year.

From 3Q report:

That looks like 60% less for domestic parks, not 44%.