Is it "okay" to expect better?

[PiratesMansion]

I loved the rest of your post- but this one point stood out since Disney invests quite a bit into their CMs.

-Minimum $15/hr wage across the resort- right in line with MIT's minimum living wage estimate for the area.
-Free park admission, discounts on food and merchandise, free park admission for friends, and winter coupons for free snacks and heavy food discounts.
-Disney Aspire- a completely free program that allows CM's to get a degree/certificate from a variety of programs- and is expanding every year. There's a few very simple qualifications but its otherwise open to every CM that wants it.
-All sorts of backstage amenities for CMs- everything from a heavily discounted pharmacy to athletic training.

There's quite a bit more- various programs and support groups for various minority groups working at the resort, the VoluntEARS program, the Company D/Property Control stores, and more. Any front cast member that complains about working for Disney is being selfish and entitled and I'd strongly encourage them to leave Disney and find someplace they'd be happier, since there's likely no entry level job that comes with better perks.

And that's all well and good...but what about all those reports of CMs who cannot find affordable housing, living with roommates well past their twenties, and so on? Even if that is a small minority of CMs, that isn't the best look for Disney.

While I have never lived in the area, I imagine a $15 min. wage doesn't go super far for the LA/OC metro area.

 

[Phroobar]

And that's all well and good...but what about all those reports of CMs who cannot find affordable housing, living with roommates well past their twenties, and so on? Even if that is a small minority of CMs, that isn't the best look for Disney.

While I have never lived in the area, I imagine a $15 min. wage doesn't go super far for the LA/OC metro area.

The problem is we don't actually know that is a reality or just made up by special interest groups or is real for less than a handful of cast members or just straight untrue.

 

[PiratesMansion]

The problem is we don't actually know that is a reality or just made up by special interest groups or is real for less than a handful of cast members or just straight untrue.

I mean, there could be some fabrication, there are certainly people who are there who love their jobs and wouldn't go anywhere else, but...c'mon guys. This is the modern WDC company we're talking about. Which do you think is more likely, that modern Disneyland is a wonderful place to work where people are valued, or that that's largely no longer the case? Maybe I'm extrapolating based on these stories and my own personal employment desires, but modern Disneyland sounds like a terrible place to work.

There are people on here who have worked at the park and/or have been connected to those working at the parks who have shared their stories. I don't remember tons of pixie dust and magic coming from most of those people's stories. Are we going to just discount them and what we've been hearing fairly consistently over the past few years at least just because a few people on here had great DCP experiences?

 

[Travel Junkie]

I would probably have a different expectation of Disney if they charged half the price to get in and didn’t have 65 years of operational experience, but they don’t.

I can only imagine the crowds if they cut admission prices in half. Keep in mind when comparing admission costs across the world, there are a variety of factors. Currency exchange rates, differences in salary cost of living expenses vary widely throughout the world. Saying TDR prices are cheaper than DLR using USD's when the dollar has a favorable exchange rate to the Yen doesn't tell the entire story.

I'm just about to rip the boarding group process in another thread, but overall I think Disneyland does a pretty good job operationally considering the park was not designed and built to handle these kinds of crowds. Comparing Disney with others, they handle operational challenges better than just about any other company/ government I have witnessed. It seems to me that some are expecting perfection and Disney is hardly that.

As I have said before though YMMV.

 

[SuddenStorm]

And that's all well and good...but what about all those reports of CMs who cannot find affordable housing, living with roommates well past their twenties, and so on? Even if that is a small minority of CMs, that isn't the best look for Disney.

While I have never lived in the area, I imagine a $15 min. wage doesn't go super far for the LA/OC metro area.

If someone works an entry level job at Disneyland will past their 20s and blames Disney for them not finding better housing, I'd strongly suggest that person should look within and start looking for better jobs and ways to better themselves to help make themselves more attractive to other employers. Disney has actively placed free tools in place to assist cast members in this regard. They want their workforce to grow and learn either within or outside the company.

In that regard, I think Disney's held to an unfair standard. Do we go after Six Flags or Universal about the low wages their employees working almost the exact same jobs make? Disney offers a job that pays x amount, no one is required to take it, and no one is under contract to dedicate years of their lives to the company. Disney also has no control over where their cast members live, how they spend their money, and other life choices that can have huge impact on their career/life trajectory.

That doesn't change the reality that working a job at Disney vs an equivalent job elsewhere in Orange County provides more perks, benefits, and looks far better on a resume than an equivalent job outside of Disney.

$15 doesn't get you far, but it's above the poverty wage and right in line with what MIT calculates the minimum 'living' wage to be. This calculator is the best number I've seen in terms of actually quantifying an elusive 'living wage', a phrase that's often used but not often quantified. In this regard the unions and resort should be applauded for negotiating contracts that do right by their long time CM's who have chosen to make a career out of the entry level resort positions, since it allows them to actually earn a minimum living wage.

I do think there are ways the CM experience could be improved. Providing more consistent schedules for part time CM's that only get two or so shifts a week (but those two shifts can change week to week) would provide students and those working second jobs better ability to schedule classes and their other job. The cast member cafeterias are woefully bad and overpriced, charging outrageous prices for really lousy food. Finding ways to improve the food quality or at least lower prices could allow the cast members to save money on their lunch breaks.

 

[SuddenStorm]

I mean, there could be some fabrication, there are certainly people who are there who love their jobs and wouldn't go anywhere else, but...c'mon guys. This is the modern WDC company we're talking about. Which do you think is more likely, that modern Disneyland is a wonderful place to work where people are valued, or that that's largely no longer the case? Maybe I'm extrapolating based on these stories and my own personal employment desires, but modern Disneyland sounds like a terrible place to work.

There are people on here who have worked at the park and/or have been connected to those working at the parks who have shared their stories. I don't remember tons of pixie dust and magic coming from most of those people's stories. Are we going to just discount them and what we've been hearing fairly consistently over the past few years at least just because a few people on here had great DCP experiences?

Yeesh, I can assure you that my commentary didn't come from my DCP experience. I strongly disliked my location, a few of my managers, and the job I was doing. I've often made similar points before spending a few months at the Resort. All the DCP did is show my the myriad of backstage services Disney offers to their Cast Members that many aren't aware of- that I think should be taken into account when discussing employment at Disneyland.

Of course modern entry level jobs are often terrible. That's why they're entry level and not intended to be career positions. That's the reality of most of the work- custodial, selling churros at food courts, or telling tourists to tug on the yellow tab on 20 second intervals aren't glamorous jobs.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Yeesh, I can assure you that my commentary didn't come from my DCP experience. I strongly disliked my location, a few of my managers, and the job I was doing. I've often made similar points before spending a few months at the Resort. All the DCP did is show my the myriad of backstage services Disney offers to their Cast Members that many aren't aware of- that I think should be taken into account when discussing employment at Disneyland.

Of course modern entry level jobs are often terrible. That's why they're entry level and not intended to be career positions. That's the reality of most of the work- custodial, selling churros at food courts, or telling tourists to tug on the yellow tab on 20 second intervals aren't glamorous jobs.

So all that everyone, including yourself, have said about it not being a great place to work should be swept aside because they offer some nice perks for their employees?

I guess I'm just not seeing the controversy here. It seemed pretty unanimous to me on here that DLR wasn't a great place to work, and the cuts have to be making it worse. The expectations of making things better at Disneyland surely should also extend to the people who make running the park possible.

I'm also quite tired of the "of course it's terrible, it's an entry level job" argument. It's the service industry, which continues to take up a larger and larger percentage of American jobs as other areas decline or are closed off to larger numbers of people. Given that, it'd be nice if people working in such jobs had access to affordable housing, but there's still a lot of arguments people make that basically boil down to "it's their fault they couldn't find something better and they don't "deserve" more than what they can get." Not just with Disney, but in lots of other industries and companies, which ignores the reality of our changing economy and changing opportunities.

Expecting better absolutely should extend to back of house and employees as well as what is onstage, IMO.

 

[Mickeyboof]

How is the company supposed to change the housing dynamic in Southern California? It is not their responsibility to create affordable housing for anyone.

The jobs offered to CMs are meant as starter jobs. I worked a few jobs at minimum wage before I graduated college and never expected "affordable housing" to go with it. I worked at Six Flags and never expected a career out of it.

There is a need for entry level jobs, and simply put, anyone off the street can do a minimum wage job. My guess is a household income of 100k is needed to own a home in the OC. Do you expect Disney to pay every entry level employee six figures?

Sigh. Would be nice if people could at the very least rent an apartment without struggling.

 

[SuddenStorm]

So all that everyone, including yourself, have said about it not being a great place to work should be swept aside because they offer some nice perks for their employees?

I guess I'm just not seeing the controversy here. It seemed pretty unanimous to me on here that DLR wasn't a great place to work, and the cuts have to be making it worse. The expectations of making things better at Disneyland surely should also extend to the people who make running the park possible.

I'm also quite tired of the "of course it's terrible, it's an entry level job" argument. It's the service industry, which continues to take up a larger and larger percentage of American jobs as other areas decline or are closed off to larger numbers of people. Given that, it'd be nice if people working in such jobs had access to affordable housing, but there's still a lot of arguments people make that basically boil down to "it's their fault they couldn't find something better and they don't "deserve" more than what they can get." Not just with Disney, but in lots of other industries and companies, which ignores the reality of our changing economy and changing opportunities.

Expecting better absolutely should extend to back of house and employees as well as what is onstage, IMO.

The initial claim I was responding too- that Disney has a "total disregard for the CMs and their needs"- was all my posts were intending to respond too. I'm not trying to claim that working there is perfect, or that the job is all unicorns and rainbows. I'm also not equipped to discuss the housing dilemma which extends far beyond the scope of this forum or Disneyland in general.

I don't think there's some conspiracy- I think there's multiple things at play. Often the most disaffected are the most vocal and there's also a huge variety of managers, jobs, and locations worked- some of which are way better than others. I also believe that in response to the negative PR Disney implemented many new 'cast first' approach programs that weren't available a few years ago that have drastically improved the cast member experience. The pay alone was a huge win for the CM's, Disney Aspire aside.

I think two things can simultaneously be true-

-Working at Disneyland isn't as bad as it's often made out to be.
-Disney still has a long way to go until working there fully embodies the brand and the company philosophy.

I was just trying to offer a different perspective than what's sometimes offered online in regards to working at Disney.

 

[bryanfze55]

Housing prices are a well-known issue in Orange County. This isn’t the fault of Disney, and it’s not their responsibility to fix. Affordable housing is a public policy issue, not the issue of a single company. We could easily make the argument that people in general are underpaid, but there is a market rate for all wages... and I can’t think of many companies that pay significantly above market rate out of sheer benevolence. Why would Disney be expected to? Because we have a connection to the place and want it to be all sunshine and rainbows? As far as I know, Disney pays better than other theme parks in the area. It’s unfortunate, and I do feel for people. But again, this is a publicly policy issue.

 

[Mickeyboof]

It’s never the issue for the billion dollar companies.

 

[bryanfze55]

It’s never the issue for the billion dollar companies.

But Disney is uniquely criticized. Why not get mad at Universal for underpaying people? I guess with great success comes great scrutiny, but come on.

It is a policy issue though. Government can’t tell a company what to pay their employees (assuming above min wage), but they can tax the company and build more public housing with the revenue.

 

[Mickeyboof]

But Disney is uniquely criticized. Why not get mad at Universal for underpaying people? I guess with great success comes great scrutiny, but come on.

It is a policy issue though. Government can’t tell a company what to pay their employees (assuming above min wage), but they can tax the company and build more public housing with the revenue.

Because this is a Disney theme park message board...?

 

[Model3 McQueen]

But Disney is uniquely criticized. Why not get mad at Universal for underpaying people? I guess with great success comes great scrutiny, but come on.

It is a policy issue though. Government can’t tell a company what to pay their employees (assuming above min wage), but they can tax the company and build more public housing with the revenue.

Disney is the only company I know who raises their prices every year by exponential amounts.

 

[bryanfze55]

Because this is a Disney theme park message board...?

I’m not just talking about here on the boards. I’m talking about the incessant media articles talking about underpaid Disney employees who struggle. Where are those articles for the millions of other service industry employees at other companies? They struggle, too.

 

[bryanfze55]

Because Disney is the only company I know who raises their prices every year by exponential amounts.

Bull. A one day ticket went up by a few bucks this year. Entertainment in general is getting much more expensive all the time as the economy continues to expand. I pay a lot more for flights and sports tickets than I did just a few years ago, too.

I’m not excusing Disney’s greed. They are definitely greedy. Just not uniquely so.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Comparing Disney with others, they handle operational challenges better than just about any other company/ government I have witnessed. It seems to me that some are expecting perfection and Disney is hardly that.

You keep looking for ways to blame the consumer, but it's not my fault if Disney decides to reduce attraction hours or entertainment to save money while raising admission prices. Or cut staffing on attractions so it takes longer to load/unload guests. Or only have so many registers open at the fast food places, or reduce the number of staff maintaining rides so that effects go broken for extended periods etc.

The best symbolic example is still the roof lights on the Grand Floridian. They haven't worked in years, but they keep raising the room rates. Should customers be OK with that? They don't have the same problem with the comparable hotels at HKDL, DLP and TDR.

Again, Tokyo takes care of their parks better, and has employees who care more about their job. Part of that is culture, but you could have standards that good in America if management cared.

 

[Mickeyboof]

Disney could be a leading example of fair wage, creative output, and employee health.

Too bad Disney is an American company though.

 

[bryanfze55]

You keep looking for ways to blame the consumer, but it's not my fault if Disney decides to reduce attraction hours or entertainment to save money while raising admission prices. Or cut staffing on attractions so it takes longer to load/unload guests. Or only have so many registers open at the fast food places, or reduce the number of staff maintaining rides so that effects go broken for extended periods etc.

The best symbolic example is still the roof lights on the Grand Floridian. They haven't worked in years, but they keep raising the room rates. Should customers be OK with that? They don't have the same problem with the comparable hotels at HKDL, DLP and TDR.

Again, Tokyo takes care of their parks better, and has employees who care more about their job. Part of that is culture, but you could have standards that good in America if management cared.

I’ll argue in favor of the parks all day long, but Disney hotels are a special kind of ripoff. They are a joke for the price on both coasts. Grand Floridian may be the worst overall offender.

Still, whether or not customers SHOULD be okay with poor maintenance is irrelevant. The Grand Floridian fills up, even at $600+ per night. A lot of people clearly aren’t worried about these things, and if they are, they’re paying exorbitant costs anyway.

 

[bryanfze55]

Disney could be a leading example of fair wage, creative output, and employee health.

Too bad Disney is an American company though.