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Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Now Open!

flynnibus

Premium Member
SDR wouldn't be accessible. You don't think there would be a subset of USO APs that would go to Celestial park for dinner (where by all accounts the food is quite great), watch the fountain show, enjoy streetmosphere, and hit the nintendo store? I'm not saying it will be thousands of people a day, but it would basically be free food/merch sales for pretty minimal effort.

Why burden thousands of people (and run how many more staffing shifts) for this handful of people? You take what are free flowing traffic points and add complexity.

Just seems like a lot of work and problems for what is almost zero gain.

They’ll eventually sell a epic ap and those people will buy that… even further reducing the potential audience that would be using this ‘free’ access
 

Purduevian

Well-Known Member
Why burden thousands of people (and run how many more staffing shifts) for this handful of people? You take what are free flowing traffic points and add complexity.

Just seems like a lot of work and problems for what is almost zero gain.

They’ll eventually sell a epic ap and those people will buy that… even further reducing the potential audience that would be using this ‘free’ access
Lets say that on average they get an extra 300 people a night coming in and having dinner (I think this number is low)... lets say their profit margins on dinner in the park + some people buying alcohol is ~$15 per guest (again I think this is low... That's $4,500 a night or $1.6 million a year.

With higher demand, maybe now they can open up more food/merch places inside Celestial park. Once capacity is high enough, you can open it up to the general public without APs... now you've created another city walk type environment, except it also is a free advertisement for EPIC universe.

Why would USO design the park this way and be actively working on the facial recognition tech if they didn't think it might be worth it?
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Lets say that on average they get an extra 300 people a night coming in and having dinner (I think this number is low)... lets say their profit margins on dinner in the park + some people buying alcohol is ~$15 per guest (again I think this is low... That's $4,500 a night or $1.6 million a year.
Ok, let's not even dispute your numbers.. just go with them. Let's assume a window of 4pm to 10pm. Labor pay starts at $17/hr.. even a very lightweight 33% cost on that, $22.61.. that means $135/head in labor for the shift. That's barebones. Now how many more positions are added? At least the 4 lands.. let's assume at least 3 heads on shift between rotation, breaks, spots, etc.. so at least 12. That's $1620. Now build in your margin.. you're not in business to break even.. Lets assume target of at least 45%... roughly 2350k. And this is all assuming it doesn't require keeping staff that they otherwise are reducing at the venues with the lower demand in this time period.

Now build in the cost to add the technology and maintain it.. and staff it. Even with these crayola level math.. you can see it's not chasing a lot of money.

Now you have all this OpEx money chasing a very small percentage of your actual revenue. That makes it high on the list of areas you trim when you need to find an extra 5-10% of savings some random quarter...

With your 300 new patrons, how much is that vs their normal turnover? Would they make even more money by simply limiting hours or scaling down during these later hours?

That's the crux here - adding money is an easy win - but what gets scrutinized and manipulated the most is your SPEND. If spend can't be linked to sufficient revenue, or worse, can be easily cut without affecting the core business.. it's always at risk. Their most attractive way to do things is to extra more money with the same OpEx (or less). inviting people into CP doesn't reduce OpEx.. it increases it. That means it starts behind the eightball.

With higher demand, maybe now they can open up more food/merch places inside Celestial park. Once capacity is high enough, you can open it up to the general public without APs... now you've created another city walk type environment, except it also is a free advertisement for EPIC universe.
The thing is, you need to actually create demand. And I'd argue what you have there is not worth adding how much in parking and time to visit when you are right there in the center of everything International Drive.

So to create demand they do what.. 'open up more food/merch'? That means spending millions to build it out, and run it, and then hope the patrons show up. Again, big spend to create demand - this isn't monetizing existing demand.

It boils down to - Would people come to CP as a free standing attraction? I can't imagine why anyone would on a recurring basis... and the people that would.. are going to be canabalized by your actual Epic ticket offers.

Maybe you could make it interesting by offering conversions.. Give people a CP pass/dining voucher in situations where you try to upsell them to an Epic ticket on-premise. But it still seems like a lot of sunk money to build out.. for a product the customer would need a lot of convincing to invest in.

Imagine a family of 5 taking their 8-16yr old kids to CP - and then having to tell them "sorry son, no you can't get on any of the rides.. we only came for dinner..."

Who is the target audience? The after 4pm Epcot WS crowd? I just don't think CP has enough gravity to pull it off.

I just think it's gotta be a tough sell unless you can show you can stuff the dining locations or bars -- and I don't know why anyone would go unless they were already there at Helios

Why would USO design the park this way and be actively working on the facial recognition tech if they didn't think it might be worth it?
Because the technologies could be used in different ways than this possibly?
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
The infrastructure is already in place.
Then they wouldn't need anything to turn it on today everywhere right?

Right?

I know they use it for ExpressPass - that's still not the same as scaling and applying to areas that are not yet regulated. Every instance is a capital expense plus future upkeep.

What happens when someone without a pass crosses the boundary?
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Then they wouldn't need anything to turn it on today everywhere right?

Right?

I know they use it for ExpressPass - that's still not the same as scaling and applying to areas that are not yet regulated. Every instance is a capital expense plus future upkeep.

What happens when someone without a pass crosses the boundary?
This isn’t something like overhead facial recognition. They’re removable facial recognition turnstiles similar to those now used at the front gate of all of their Orlando parks. The issue of someone crossing the boundary would be handled the same way they handle the front gate.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
This isn’t something like overhead facial recognition. They’re removable facial recognition turnstiles similar to those now used at the front gate of all of their Orlando parks. The issue of someone crossing the boundary would be handled the same way they handle the front gate.

So all these turnstiles and barriers and traffic management are already in place at each portal right?

Right?

Who wants to choke every entrance and staff it for this tradeoff of yet-be-seen CP lovers?
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
So all these turnstiles and barriers and traffic management are already in place at each portal right?

Right?

Who wants to choke every entrance and staff it for this tradeoff of yet-be-seen CP lovers?
Removable was the key word. I have already stated that going back to the idea of opening Celestial Park would be bad. But the ability to limit access at each portal already exists.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Yes, but what you replied to was "Now build in the cost to add the technology and maintain it.. and staff it"

Those words still apply to "removable" turnstyles too. They must exist, they must be maintained, they must be staffed.
The technology is there because renting out a land for a private event costs a pretty penny or two. The equipment and means of restricting access to the lands. Not sure why you take such issue with just accepting that it was already built.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
The technology is there because renting out a land for a private event costs a pretty penny or two. The equipment and means of restricting access to the lands. Not sure why you take such issue with just accepting that it was already built.
Because there is a difference between 'temporary' and partial coverage - and everyday and at every portal.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Because there is a difference between 'temporary' and partial coverage - and everyday and at every portal.
The process doesn’t change if they’re doing it for a few hours or all day. The whole point of the investment was to make things more like the front gates instead of the ad hoc solutions they have to use at the North Campus parks. They literally drop in the turnstiles and check admission.

so that 'staffing' line item appears again :)

And what happens when the teens learn to bum rush the portal? :)
Teens aren’t bum rushing the front gates.
 

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