Why is there not more love for the Original EPCOT Center in today’s media?

[KaliSplash]

Part of the problem, as pointed out above: Epcot Center was NOT what Walt proposed in that video they still show parts of to this day. Epcot was not supposed to be a theme park. It was supposed to be a completely new type of community.

But what Disney actually knew how to do was make theme parks. They knew how to make money with theme parks. It was hard to see the $$$ in creating a new type of community with domes, and monorails and peoplemovers, etc.

So we got the original Epcot Center we all loved. My wife and I were there before the end of October 1982. And what I said to her after the first day, "This is the most amazing level of audio-animatronic rides I've ever imagined. But the park lacks "Magic!" As wonderful as I found each pavilion to be, there was no magic. Mickey was only briefly mentioned in Communicore.

And as Disney discovered, it needed to make Epcot more magical. And it has over the decades. To the point that the whole purpose has been washed away.

 

[DrStarlander]

My wife and I were there before the end of October 1982. And what I said to her after the first day, "This is the most amazing level of audio-animatronic rides I've ever imagined. But the park lacks "Magic!" As wonderful as I found each pavilion to be, there was no magic

I first got to Epcot in the late '80s and I liked it but don't remember too much of my teen-years impression. So it's interesting to hear your reaction at its opening, that it lacked Magic. I wonder how common that opinion was. I always felt Epcot was admired, respected, had a slightly sophisticated gravitas...but that really slipped away.

As much as I like World Showcase, I think with easy global travel and prolific media/online coverage of every spot on earth, it's perhaps less impressive now. Maybe if it was destinations in both time and place (e.g., Ancient Greece, Egypt) it would feel more special since you can't travel there for real, you need Disney.

 

[Chi84]

Part of the problem, as pointed out above: Epcot Center was NOT what Walt proposed in that video they still show parts of to this day. Epcot was not supposed to be a theme park. It was supposed to be a completely new type of community.

But what Disney actually knew how to do was make theme parks. They knew how to make money with theme parks. It was hard to see the $$$ in creating a new type of community with domes, and monorails and peoplemovers, etc.

So we got the original Epcot Center we all loved. My wife and I were there before the end of October 1982. And what I said to her after the first day, "This is the most amazing level of audio-animatronic rides I've ever imagined. But the park lacks "Magic!" As wonderful as I found each pavilion to be, there was no magic. Mickey was only briefly mentioned in Communicore.

And as Disney discovered, it needed to make Epcot more magical. And it has over the decades. To the point that the whole purpose has been washed away.

No magic as compared to what?

What theme parks had you experienced that had more magic?

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

Here's the thing, to me, the EPCOT that people often are nostalgic for lasted for quite a short time all things considered. It really only lasted for about 10 years which for a theme park, is quite short. EPCOT was always going to be upstaged by Magic Kingdom and it was new. It didn't have that same "Disney" to a lot of people, I'd argue for better or worse. Even just a few years back, I remember for people EPCOT fell in their least favorite parks and one MAJOR problem until recently was it did not appeal well to kids. My family loves EPCOT but when we went, the kids really didn't care for Epcot. The adults and teenagers liked looking around, eating and shopping at the countries but to kids it would basically be a big pretty mall without much to do. With more characters, rides, improvements, I think it's still getting better but still not the perfect park for kids (full disclosure EPCOT is my favorite theme park that I've personally been to, ever.)

In order for people to get super in love/nostalgic for something, it's usually something you experience as a kid/in those formative years. I'm sure early EPCOT with its heavy edutainment can easily be kinda sucked into a "field trip" feel. Like a cool interactive museum but not something that stands out a ton to a kid. I mean as a kid, you're not nearly going to be excited talking about the ride where you learned the history of communication, vehicles, and sustainable farming over you flying over London with Peter Pan, driving your own car at the Speedway, meeting your favorite princess, or conquering your first "big coaster".

Early EPCOT didn't have the coasters, the characters as much, those experiences that REALLY connected with all kids.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

No magic as compared to what?

What theme parks had you experienced that had more magic?

I think of it as that last bit of Disney that people really connect back to Disney. Like it or not, people like seeing the Disney brand in the Disney parks. People want to know that they're in that higher level of theming and something that truly only Disney could provide.
Only Disney can shrink you to the size of a mouse and have a fun kitchen escape with Remy, Disney uses specific ride system, they just do certain stuff that no one else can do.

EPCOT really lacked that in the beginning.

 

[Chi84]

I think of it as that last bit of Disney that people really connect back to Disney. Like it or not, people like seeing the Disney brand in the Disney parks. People want to know that they're in that higher level of theming and something that truly only Disney could provide.
Only Disney can shrink you to the size of a mouse and have a fun kitchen escape with Remy, Disney uses specific ride system, they just do certain stuff that no one else can do.

EPCOT really lacked that in the beginning.

I don’t think Epcot was about Disney IP like Remy.

It was a unique land apart from Cinderella, Snow White and the others.

I can’t imagine anything more spectacular than the original Living Seas.

Did you experience the original Epcot in 1982? If so how old were you?

 

[FiestaFunKid]

I was born in '76, and visited Epcot in 83, 85, 87-92, Walking into Epcot and seeing what appeared to be the future before my eyes (in the backdrop of the more limited everyday technology back then), was as magical as anything I've experienced in the parks.... and the lines were incredibly long for all of these attractions.

It was a different type of entertainment vs MK for sure, which is now missing in today's more homogenized park experience. Your Epcot day felt unique (as did your MGM Studios day). I dont begrudge them for adding Test Track, Soarin and new ride systems to bring more varied excitement, but they could have done other updates a way that preserved the core mission of the park w/o just plopping IP wherever the can shoehorn it (not to mention the bland spine we are left with now). The current popularity of SE indicates Horizons and or WoM should have remained as a core offering in the vein of the classic MK attractions, with updates if needed.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

I don’t think Epcot was about Disney IP like Remy.

It was a unique land apart from Cinderella, Snow White and the others.

I can’t imagine anything more spectacular than the original Living Seas.

Did you experience the original Epcot in 1982? If so how old were you?

Nah, I would be way off the original Epcot, I can only look at videos and the facts and make assumptions based on that. I wish I got to see stuff like the original JII or WOM.

I’d just make the argument that it seems like this park has always struggled with th kids

 

[DL-fan]

Nah, I would be way off the original Epcot, I can only look at videos and the facts and make assumptions based on that. I wish I got to see stuff like the original JII or WOM.

I’d just make the argument that it seems like this park has always struggled with th kids

It definitely would struggle 70% more with today’s kids

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

It definitely would struggle 70% more with today’s kids

Kids are all over the map - lots of kids are very interested in science and technology and would love the original Epcot.

 

[Heppenheimer]

I've heard it said that Journey Into Imagination was the one ride in the pre-1990s EPCOT that felt timeless and would still hold up today with minimal updates.

My memory of it... probably? There was nothing in particular that would have obviously dated the ride, it was just a classic Disney dark ride, filled the usual details and visual effects. It was definitely much more engaging and whimsical than the current iteration of the ride.

Some of the ImageWorks exhibits they had upstairs probably would have eventually dated themselves, but they could have easily designed updates.

 

[Jrb1979]

Here's the thing, to me, the EPCOT that people often are nostalgic for lasted for quite a short time all things considered. It really only lasted for about 10 years which for a theme park, is quite short. EPCOT was always going to be upstaged by Magic Kingdom and it was new. It didn't have that same "Disney" to a lot of people, I'd argue for better or worse. Even just a few years back, I remember for people EPCOT fell in their least favorite parks and one MAJOR problem until recently was it did not appeal well to kids. My family loves EPCOT but when we went, the kids really didn't care for Epcot. The adults and teenagers liked looking around, eating and shopping at the countries but to kids it would basically be a big pretty mall without much to do. With more characters, rides, improvements, I think it's still getting better but still not the perfect park for kids (full disclosure EPCOT is my favorite theme park that I've personally been to, ever.)

In order for people to get super in love/nostalgic for something, it's usually something you experience as a kid/in those formative years. I'm sure early EPCOT with its heavy edutainment can easily be kinda sucked into a "field trip" feel. Like a cool interactive museum but not something that stands out a ton to a kid. I mean as a kid, you're not nearly going to be excited talking about the ride where you learned the history of communication, vehicles, and sustainable farming over you flying over London with Peter Pan, driving your own car at the Speedway, meeting your favorite princess, or conquering your first "big coaster".

Early EPCOT didn't have the coasters, the characters as much, those experiences that REALLY connected with all kids.

I kind of agree. IMO had they actually finished the original World Showcase plans with all the attractions the nostalgia would be a lot better.

What I'm not a fan of is pushing IP into Epcot as the answer to make it more appealing to guests.

 

[Heppenheimer]

I kind of agree. IMO had they actually finished the original World Showcase plans with all the attractions the nostalgia would be a lot better.

What I'm not a fan of is pushing IP into Epcot as the answer to make it more appealing to guests.

That Zugspitze-themed roller coaster that was on the drawing boards for the Germany pavilion probably would have gone a long way to changing people's original opinion of EPCOT.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

I kind of agree. IMO had they actually finished the original World Showcase plans with all the attractions the nostalgia would be a lot better.

What I'm not a fan of is pushing IP into Epcot as the answer to make it more appealing to guests.

I'm gonna agree that IP just loaded into Epcot is not the best answer to making it appealing but in todays day and age, it's one of the only answers. Very few rides are able to keep up with the demand of the Disney company. This is a company where cross promotion and "doing more" is everything. Very very few rides even popular ones are able to hold legs outside the parks. Haunted Mansion/Pirates are the most stable of these and I would argue ToT and Small World to a lesser extent but not really anything outside of that. EPCOT's ride just don't hold that same standard.

IP when done well is actually very good and I think fits in EPCOT at times.

 

[Brer Panther]

I think there's a right way and a wrong way to do IP, including in EPCOT.

The problem is that Iger's Disney has done it the wrong way.

Using Finding Nemo in the Living Seas pavilion is a good idea on paper, and honestly, I recall most of the exhibits being done well. It's the dark ride that's the main problem - instead of using the characters to teach about the ocean and its inhabitants, they just rehashed the movie.

Guardians of the Galaxy... yeah, I don't think that EVER could've worked. Should've put it in Tomorrowland or used it for the Rock 'n' Roller Coaster retheme.

 

[DrStarlander]

Guardians of the Galaxy... yeah, I don't think that EVER could've worked. Should've put it in Tomorrowland

GotG seems like a great fit for Tomorrowland, as a fantasy-based world and story. Tron seems like it could have worked great at Epcot, with its world's fair pavilion architecture, and easily could have made sense as the headliner of a pavilion on tech/gaming.

 

[denyuntilcaught]

For DCA the reason is obvious. The others, not so much.

And WDSP/DAW.

DHS could have worked. It didn't even have to stick to the working studio model, but could have found a new lens on the magic of movie making within the context of the 21st century that could have still worked while finding a way to integrate IP. They just went the lazier route with it.

Epcot, as others have mentioned, is a tricker one. It's inherently fascinating and dull to many at the same time. It's message is simple and complex simultaneously. And as one just noted, it lacked magic but somehow was the most magical of them all.

And I think that complexity was something the company wasn't prepared - or ever willing - to handle in the long run. Every other park that came after had a simpler theme, even DAK. It's principles are academic, but consumer facing, it's a park about animals.

 

[HMF]

And WDSP/DAW.

That is fair, seeing as how even with DCA there were actually things to do. I only went to WDSP to ride their thankfully non-messed up Tower of Terror. The rest of the place was mostly a maze of construction walls when I was there.

 

[HMF]

Kids are all over the map - lots of kids are very interested in science and technology and would love the original Epcot.

I was nine when I first rode the Irons SSE. It literally changed my life.

 

[HMF]

Using Finding Nemo in the Living Seas pavilion is a good idea on paper, and honestly, I recall most of the exhibits being done well. It's the dark ride that's the main problem - instead of using the characters to teach about the ocean and its inhabitants, they just rehashed the movie.

As I said the problem with their approach to Nemo in the Seas is that Nemo is now the real point of the pavilion rather than the actual subject of the pavilion. The equivalent would be instead of just Circle of Life, the entire Land Pavilion ended up being re-themed to Lion King.