That’s the one that stings the most to me, it’s a very nice park, themed to Around the World in 80 days. It has a lot of room to expand too. The others sold were not good parks or incredibly small with no real path to growth.
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All things Knotts Berry Farm
- Thread starter Phroobar
- Start date
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
At one time St. Louis was a lovely park. I grew up going there each summer (extended family lived in the area) - police academy stunt show anyone!?!? Haha.
Lovely train ride too - just a crown steam locomotive but those are fun.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
The problem with it is the attendance and guest spending wasn't there. I know they didn't get the investments but they did add a new coaster a couple of years ago. It did little to boost attendance. I was there a year ago and most rides were walk ons.
That's the issue with these parks they sold off and others they still own. The attendance isn't there when adding new attractions.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
But St. Louis is dying a slow death. It's riding on the last fumes it had when it was still relevant and growing in the 1980's. That it still has major sports teams is only because they've been there for decades and Anheuser-Busch and TWA used to operate their headquarters there.
It's a minor miracle the heartless corporate overlords in Brussels know they can't pull the Cardinals out of town and have to keep subsidizing them like it's still 1975.
I just checked, and at 2.8 Million in the combined metro area St. Louis is the 23rd largest city in America. Smaller than Charlotte, but bigger than San Antonio.
More telling, and the reason why Six Flags would pull out of that mid-market, is how poor the St. Louis metro area now is. It ranks 79th on the list for Metro Area GDP Per Capita in the US. St. Louis metro has a GDP Per Capita of just $66,743 per person. Above Green Bay, but below Ithaca. 23rd in population, but 79th in income. That's not a good business bet.
As a comparison, Knott's Berry Farm sits in a metro area (Orange County, population 3.3 Million) with a GDP Per Capita of $94,034. Magic Mountain sits in a metro area (Los Angeles County, population 9.8 Million) with a GDP Per Capita of $102,899.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
It’s struggling. I wouldn’t say it’s dying. I was there this summer - the muny (summer broadway concert series in Forest Park) and other programs are doing good and figuring out how to survive.
But that’s why I mentioned that Kansas City is even more perplexing - cause that city is doing great.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
The city may be doing great but it has done little to support their park.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
But looking at these metro areas, and their business cases, on a national level you have to ask... Doing great compared to what? Cleveland, Ohio? Pontiac, Michigan?
Using that same data set, Kansas City Metro area has a smaller population than St. Louis, and a marginally better yet still relatively poor GDP Per Capita.
Kansas City Metro = 2.3 Million, GDP Per Capita of $70,165 at 79th Place
Vs.
St. Louis Metro = 2.8 Million, GDP Per Capita of $66,743 at 63rd Place
Then look at some of the metros that don't even have a single major theme park, Six Flags or otherwise...
Seattle Metro Area = 4.0 Million, GDP Per Capita of $119,646 at 4th Place
Portland is bigger than Kansas City, with a slightly higher GDP Per Capita, and it doesn't have a theme park at all.
Portland Metro Area = 2.5 Million, GDP Per Capita of $74,283 at 46th Place
I think it's lucky that the Six Flags locations in demographically challenging cities like St. Louis or Kansas City lasted as long as they did. I'm not surprised that a spreadsheet showing all of the Six Flags theme parks in the country would be flashing red in 2026 when it came to Kansas City and St. Louis, plus a few others. It would be an easy business decision to make, it would seem to me.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
mostly I just have good memories of the St. Louis park. Hopefully the new owners will do a good job with it. I have no clue what condition it’s in.
people complain about Detroit all the time and yet the Henry ford village is thriving and a joy to visit.
Back to the topic…. I got to revisit Knotts on my next trip to Anaheim - only been a couple times and would love to revisit!
PiratesMansion
Well-Known Member
St. Louis has lost an enormous percentage of their population since their peak (much closer to when the park was built than to now). The city has less than half of the population than it did in the 1950s. It's a really cool city with more interesting attractions and character than people might expect, but it just isn't growing and its reputation isn't the best. It makes me sad to see the St. Louis park leave the chain, because it was the last park Six Flags actually built themselves, but it also isn't exactly drowning in growth potential. I somewhat understand the new name, as the park was originally known as Six Flags over Mid-America, but apparently nobody's told the theme park executives that mid has come to mean mediocre-which is precisely what a lot of enthusiasts think of Six Flags St. Louis (though not WOF fans, anyway).
Kansas City-Worlds of Fun is a really nice park, but once Cedar Fair bought the Paramount parks they ignored it (at least in terms of new coasters and major cap ex). They waited so long that when they finally did build a new coaster relatively recently, it did very little to move the gate. It was a park that had a very divided reputation depending on how familiar people were with it. New or infrequent visitors saw a beautiful, well-kept park with a unique theme. The locals probably would have preferred to have been next to Six Flags St. Louis instead, which wasn't as well put together but at least saw reasonably consistent investment in attractions until Selim Bassoul permanently broke Six Flags.
I will say that none of the parks they sold/rebranded as Enchanted Parks are outright disasters or underperformers, and all are more or less dependable properties that just aren't really parks with huge growth potential and definitely are not signature parks. Hopefully they will be better able to shine in a company where they are the sole focus and their parent company isn't tempted to just give all investment to the bigger market parks.
Kansas City-Worlds of Fun is a really nice park, but once Cedar Fair bought the Paramount parks they ignored it (at least in terms of new coasters and major cap ex). They waited so long that when they finally did build a new coaster relatively recently, it did very little to move the gate. It was a park that had a very divided reputation depending on how familiar people were with it. New or infrequent visitors saw a beautiful, well-kept park with a unique theme. The locals probably would have preferred to have been next to Six Flags St. Louis instead, which wasn't as well put together but at least saw reasonably consistent investment in attractions until Selim Bassoul permanently broke Six Flags.
I will say that none of the parks they sold/rebranded as Enchanted Parks are outright disasters or underperformers, and all are more or less dependable properties that just aren't really parks with huge growth potential and definitely are not signature parks. Hopefully they will be better able to shine in a company where they are the sole focus and their parent company isn't tempted to just give all investment to the bigger market parks.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
I love the entire Dearborn experience! I've gone out and done that twice now in the last two decades. I stayed both times at the Dearborn Inn, America's first airport hotel that Henry built to serve his Tri-Motors. Marriott runs it as a very swanky place. I spent 3 days visiting at The Henry Ford, Greenfield Village, the big Ford Factory tour experience, plus a visit to the Motown Museum and their gift shop. Pierogi's and Detroit Pizza taste tests, and it's always been a great visit! People are so nice there too.
Last time I made my taxi driver take me the long way back to the airport so I could see that incredible Ford headquarters building that Skidmore/Owings/Merrill built for them. "The Glass House" they call it. It was a Sunday and we just parked in the giant empty drive in front and looked at it for a few minutes, and the taxi driver said he was glad I asked him to because he hadn't noticed how impressive it was.
I'm so glad I did because I read Ford is abandoning that building for a new headquarters. I've been reading stories that Detroit is experiencing a rebirth and revival, which is wonderful to hear. That city is America personified, and it needs to regain its glory! And it's wealth and comfortable middle class! If I ever get back to Detroit, I want to see the newly refurbished Michigan Station. That's a story unto itself!
I'm just getting up to speed on the Knott's & Six Flags story. I am naturally, and understandably, worried that Knott's is now owned by Six Flags. That just sounds like a recipe for disaster and decay. But apparently folks more in the know here are optimistic, and it's more of a case of Cedar Fair executives taking over Six Flags? That would help soothe the angst.
Still, I'm nervous for Knott's Berry Farm. That park can't go the way of Magic Mountain, it just can't!
PiratesMansion
Well-Known Member
100% it's a case of the same people that have run Knott's and the other CF properties for a decade are now running the company, they just kept the Six Flags name because it's recognizable.
The people who were responsible for the worst of what happened last year (none of which really hit Knott's at all) have all been canned-or at least, the most visible ones have.
There's nothing in the past year or so pointing to the need to worry about Knott's-it's a solid performer with a big following. Entertainment isn't quite as plentiful as it used to be, but you could say that about a lot of parks right now. They even finally got the last piece of the new Montezuma track installed, so that should be reopening soon as well.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
How much have they cut?
They also got rid of the smaller steam train and replaced it with electric
AJFireman
Well-Known Member
In December 2025 they did appoint a new CEO. Here is his bio. All the other executive officers are still previous Cedar Fair
parksandtravel
Member
parksandtravel
Member
Pizza Moon
Well-Known Member
Obviously, Knotts is a must-do for Disney diehards, but is it truly worth peeling off a Disneyland day? Like going from 4 to 3?
Did USH last time I went, and thought it was worth it to check out, so if it is similar in its own way like a Dollywoo,d then I should probably go.
I heard Knotts became ghetto from a friend who refuses to go now, but I imagine those concerns are overblown.
Did USH last time I went, and thought it was worth it to check out, so if it is similar in its own way like a Dollywoo,d then I should probably go.
I heard Knotts became ghetto from a friend who refuses to go now, but I imagine those concerns are overblown.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Probably not. I’ve only done Knotts when I was in Anaheim for a long trip.
It’s a really cool place for the history - the old train ride, the log flume, the calico mine train, real stagecoach ride, Wild West town, etc.
There is some lovely live entertainment but it’s more seasonal. Billy hill / krazy kirk is worth the visit alone!
CoastalElite64
Well-Known Member
If you like coasters- yes! If you don't like coasters then it depends.
The best times to go is during Scary Farm or a festival.
parksandtravel
Member
Professortango1
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't say ghetto, just don't expect competence in terms of operations. Wait times will be 3x what they quote, stores will open at some point, but not necessarily at art times, people will cut in line, Berry Takes will be down half the day.
But you'll also have great interactions with the citizens of Calico in ways that Disney could only dream. You'll see far more entertainment and varieties of it .You'll ride the best wooden coaster around, and you'll enjoy the quiet charm.
It's a half day park for me, but that's party because I'm at 250 pounds ATM so I got 30 more to go before I can ride all the rides.