News Magic Kingdom Permits Filed for Big Al's, Westward Ho, and Churro Cart Possible Demolition

[Touchdown]

I’m not touching the timeline stuff, but just circling back to “north woods” not being Frontier. While images of Texas and Arizona might first spring to mind when thinking about “the frontier” it’s not the only place. Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Oregon etc are just as much Frontier as the Southwest. Some of the great historical events of the Frontier era ( Oregon Trail, Lewis and Clark, 49er Gold Rush, the building of the continental railroad) took place at least partially in forested cooler climates where there are lots of bears. Heck Disneys contribution that spauned this land in DLR, Davy Crockett, takes place mostly in Tennessee.

 

[MisterPenguin]

While the original CBJ had songs from more modern times at the time of its opening, its design was always meant to emulate Vaudeville and country music of the early 1900s. Compare the original songs to their CBJ covers and you’ll see how different the instrumentation and style is, the CBJ sounds a lot more vintage despite being newer.

"Feels old" is not the same as "is old."

The point still stands: Because they were singing songs from the 1950's, the time setting of CBJ couldn't be earlier than the 1950s, regardless of "feels."

Disney *could have* created new songs that sound like early 20th century old timey times. But they didn't. They chose the anachronism -- if indeed their intent was to make CBJ part of the "Old West."

But, in the end, this is a failing of Frontierland's 'theme' in confusing "The South" as "Olden Days of the Western Frontier."

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

The point still stands: Because they were singing songs from the 1950's, the time setting of CBJ couldn't be earlier than the 1950s, regardless of "feels."

I disagree with that. That would mean Main Street USA is modern day since the musicians occasionally play songs from modern day Disney movies.

The style (ragtime, barbershop, brass band jazz) creates the timeline.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I disagree with that. That would mean Main Street USA is modern day since the musicians occasionally play songs from modern day Disney movies.

That's just breaking theme, again.

If CBJ is supposed to be in 'frontier times,' then they blew it by choosing songs from the 1950s.

If Main Street is supposed to be from early 20th century then they also blew the theming with anachronisms.

Some anachronisms you can waive away out of necessity (modern trash cans, e.g.,) or from a suspension of belief (e.g., seeing a Romantic European castle from Main Street and hearing an occasional Disney song). But it still is actually and literally literally an anachronism and a break in the theming.

Some breaks are minor, some are downright major atrocities... Like making every single song in an old timey theater picked from the 1950s.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

I disagree with that. That would mean Main Street USA is modern day since the musicians occasionally play songs from modern day Disney movies.

The style (ragtime, barbershop, brass band jazz) creates the timeline.

You can disagree with that but the CBJ has always HAD to be in at minimum the 1930s.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

You can disagree with that but the CBJ has always HAD to be in at minimum the 1930s.

Technically late 1920’s - but that’s not what I was referring to.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

Technically late 1920’s - but that’s not what I was referring to.

Yeah technically it could be within the same year but Idk at the same time I would have felt like there would be some kind of acknowledgement in his grandfather if he literally died the same year we see it.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Yeah technically it could be within the same year but Idk at the same time I would have felt like there would be some kind of acknowledgement in his grandfather if he literally died the same year we see it.

Sure… it’s not really that important cause 1930’s is fine of course. Steamboats still operated, steam trains still operated, an abandoned gold rush mine town makes sense.

 

[networkpro]

"Feels old" is not the same as "is old."

The point still stands: Because they were singing songs from the 1950's, the time setting of CBJ couldn't be earlier than the 1950s, regardless of "feels."

Disney *could have* created new songs that sound like early 20th century old timey times. But they didn't. They chose the anachronism -- if indeed their intent was to make CBJ part of the "Old West."

But, in the end, this is a failing of Frontierland's 'theme' in confusing "The South" as "Olden Days of the Western Frontier."

Its a matter of temporal perspective. Remember that from 1763 until 1802 Georgia extended from the Atlantic Ocean to the Mississippi River. Paddlewheel steam powered ships were still in use until the early 1900's in Georgia. Everything is relative and nothing exists in a vacuum.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Its a matter of temporal perspective. Remember that from 1763 until 1802 Georgia extended from the Atlantic Ocean to the Mississippi River. Paddlewheel steam powered ships were still in use until the early 1900's in Georgia. Everything is relative and nothing exists in a vacuum.

Yes, that is a point that I keep making every time the temporal cohesiveness of Frontierland is examined.

The geographic boundary of "the frontier" kept changing as the continent was 'settled' by the Colonialists and their succeeding generations.

Yes, at one time Georgia incorporated that boundary between settled and not-settled. But by the time of Splash Mountain, we're in the post-Civil-War era. Georgia to the Mississippi was no longer 'the frontier.'

Let's face it: the word "frontier" barely applied to anything in Frontierland. If your paddleboat is going up and down the Mississippi hauling supplies and goods without danger of attacks from predatory animals or Indians... it ain't the frontier. It's old-timey, but it ain't the unsettled, lawless, wild West, which is what the word "frontier" usually is applied to.

If it were originally called "The American Vista," none of these back and forths would be happening.

 

[Charlie The Chatbox Ghost]

Yeah technically it could be within the same year but Idk at the same time I would have felt like there would be some kind of acknowledgement in his grandfather if he literally died the same year we see it.

If we want to assume that Henry’s father inherited the role after Ursus, then that *could* make the 1950s timeline accurate, or even 1971. Though iirc the lore states that Henry inherited Grizzly Hall directly after Ursus, so I guess Henry’s father wasn’t interested, haha.

The new version of Henry seems much more youthful than previous shows (although only the vacation hoedown makes mention of his age, him calling himself “old”) so I wonder what the new timeline is. Ursus is still his grandfather and still died in 1928, and Henry took over, but now they have electric guitars- so I have no clue. Frankly, Ursus’s death year is the wrench in this whole timeline, if it wasn’t directly stated then it would be a lot easier to adjust the timeline to match the era of the costumes/music styles. (Again I think the songs should be viewed as unthethered to the timeline, as the song choices are always picked with the audience in mind and not the shows backstory)

 

[Charlie The Chatbox Ghost]

Yes, that is a point that I keep making every time the temporal cohesiveness of Frontierland is examined.

The geographic boundary of "the frontier" kept changing as the continent was 'settled' by the Colonialists and their succeeding generations.

Yes, at one time Georgia incorporated that boundary between settled and not-settled. But by the time of Splash Mountain, we're in the post-Civil-War era. Georgia to the Mississippi was no longer 'the frontier.'

Let's face it: the word "frontier" barely applied to anything in Frontierland. If your paddleboat is going up and down the Mississippi hauling supplies and goods without danger of attacks from predatory animals or Indians... it ain't the frontier. It's old-timey, but it ain't the unsettled, lawless, wild West, which is what the word "frontier" usually is applied to.

If it were originally called "The American Vista," none of these back and forths would be happening.

Yeah, Magic Kingdom’s Frontierland has never been a cohesive, accurate land. Even from day 1, where the only attractions were the Country Bears and the canoes. It’s purely a vibes land, like how Adventureland is “jungle vibes” and Tomorrowland is “sci fi vibes”. There’s no unifying story like Paris’s Frontierland or Hong Kong’s Grizzly Gulch (which are the only Frontierlands to do so)

 

[FigmentFan82]

Is there a place currently to get churros in Magic Kingdom?

 

[gerarar]

Is there a place currently to get churros in Magic Kingdom?

Off the top my head, the two snack stands in the hub and galactic goodies in tomorrowland.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Off the top my head, the two snack stands in the hub and galactic goodies in tomorrowland.

There’s also the Cherry Cola Churro at Astrofizz.