MK Villains Land Announced for Walt Disney World's Magic Kingdom

[Pizza Moon]

Big Thunder is fantastic. Tron is physically fun, but a bit short/thin and a lot ugly. Space needs a Disneyland-level retrack and upgrade. SDMT is a lost cause as it would be expensive/expansive to fix what is wrong with it and in its current state, it is a junior coaster selling guests a family coaster; which is why little kids enjoy it but most teens and up find it to be pretty to walk by, but never worth the wait.

They should have just done a Casey Jr/Storybookland area with the SDMT. A vibe boat ride past iconic Disney fairy tale scenes with gardens and rockwork with mine carts coasting around the surrounding hills and mines. Its the difference between riding through a beautiful, landscape hillside and riding on a beautiful, landscaped hill.

I think all of MK’s coasters but Barnstormer will be fantastic once Space is re-tracked, they’re all family coasters, none are that thrilling, but they all have such unique vibes. I’ve never understand the Space/TRON comparisons, they’re so utterly different, for instance.

The length arguments to me are silly and are beating a dead bush at this point. Does it prevent them from being Everest/Hagrid’s/Cosmic Rewind level, yes, but TRON is also a coaster that goes 60 miles per hour and has no lift hills, it’s still a fantastic E-ticket and one of the most spectacular facades of any ride ever.

To me, an F ticket is almost a classification we need now in many ways, and almost like a dimensional access that separates execution quality from scale itself.

 

[MrPromey]

Suggest that overall attention spans are still good, even long? Sure, maybe. It could be that attention span is mostly a hardwired trait and all the reports of it supposedly shrinking boil down to technophobia, I certainly don’t rule that out.

I'm not sure you need that much of an attention span for a 10 minute ride and I find it hard to believe that most people would prefer to wait 40-60+ minutes for a 1 minute quality attraction vs. a 10 minute quality attraction.

I understand that roller coasters are typically not long but Escape from Gringots is 5 so it's certainly possible to make a ride with thrill elements that's more than a couple of minutes if they actually want to and that one has some of the highest wait times at Univeral Studio so I don't think it being more than a minute or two long is hurting it's popularity.

I do think people get bored more easily today than they used to and that more frequent stimulation is needed to keep that attention but isn't that what these attractions are supposed to be?

I suspect if you were able to reverse it - wait in a line for 1-3 minutes for a 40-60 minute attraction vs. 40-60 minutes waiting for a 1-3 minute attraction, most people would choose the longer attraction vs. the longer line, wouldn't you?

 

[rreading]

I'm not sure you need that much of an attention span for a 10 minute ride and I find it hard to believe that most people would prefer to wait 40-60+ minutes for a 1 minute quality attraction vs. a 10 minute quality attraction.

I understand that roller coasters are typically not long but Escape from Gringots is 5 so it's certainly possible to make a ride with thrill elements that's more than a couple of minutes if they actually want to and that one has some of the highest wait times at Univeral Studio so I don't think it being more than a minute or two long is hurting it's popularity.

I do think people get bored more easily today than they used to and that more frequent stimulation is needed to keep that attention but isn't that what these attractions are supposed to be?

I suspect if you were able to reverse it - wait in a line for 1-3 minutes for a 40-60 minute attraction vs. 40-60 minutes waiting for a 1-3 minute attraction, most people would choose the longer attraction vs. the longer line, wouldn't you?

They didn’t for universe of energy. Had the ride been shorter, we might have ridden it more; but since we (and apparently- others) didn’t love it, we didn’t want to spend 30min on something didn’t enjoy

 

[Andrew C]

I'm not sure you need that much of an attention span for a 10 minute ride and I find it hard to believe that most people would prefer to wait 40-60+ minutes for a 1 minute quality attraction vs. a 10 minute quality attraction.

I understand that roller coasters are typically not long but Escape from Gringots is 5 so it's certainly possible to make a ride with thrill elements that's more than a couple of minutes if they actually want to and that one has some of the highest wait times at Univeral Studio so I don't think it being more than a minute or two long is hurting it's popularity.

I do think people get bored more easily today than they used to and that more frequent stimulation is needed to keep that attention but isn't that what these attractions are supposed to be?

I suspect if you were able to reverse it - wait in a line for 1-3 minutes for a 40-60 minute attraction vs. 40-60 minutes waiting for a 1-3 minute attraction, most people would choose the longer attraction vs. the longer line, wouldn't you?

Is this a good time to blame social media and our phone addiction

Anyways, I think balance is key, which I know sounds simple...because it is. Aim for a mix...

 

[MrPromey]

They didn’t for universe of energy. Had the ride been shorter, we might have ridden it more; but since we (and apparently- others) didn’t love it, we didn’t want to spend 30min on something didn’t enjoy

So your point is that you don’t consider a short wait for an old, outdated attraction you didn’t particularly enjoy, to be worth it. An attraction that was a relatively cheap refurb of an even older ride, and that arguably downgraded the experience in favor of pop-culture references that were already older than most of its audience by the time it closed?

That’s fine, I guess but it doesn’t really have anything to do with what I’m saying.

Rise of the Resistance is about a 20-minute attraction.

Do you not like that one either?

Do you think the reason it’s more popular is simply because it’s about 10 minutes shorter than Ellen’s Energy Adventure was? And if it were 10 minutes longer, do you think that would suddenly turn its usual hour-long wait into a walk-on?

If they were to make that a 33 minute attraction and you had the option to spend that 33 minutes on the ride with nearly zero wait, would you consider that a worse thing than currently spending an hour standing in line for it to be 20 minutes?

Do you actually enjoy your time in the line so much you'd prefer to do that than be on the ride?

 

[MrPromey]

Is this a good time to blame social media and our phone addiction

Anyways, I think balance is key, which I know sounds simple...because it is. Aim for a mix...

It's our easy access to immediate gratification, in general. Why wait for the best stuff when there is an endless selection of good-enough options always available?

I was trying to explain to my son the other day how when I was his age, if there was a show on TV, I either had to be there when it was on or have a VCR which had to be programed in advance to capture it or risk possibly never experiencing that show again in my life.

He could not believe it. I then went on to explain that it usually came on again in "reruns" but I had to know the date and time for the episode and again had to be there or had to manually program a machine to record it to tape... or maybe wait several years for something called "syndication" where I could see it out of order again, if I was present at the date and time it aired.

We have cable due to our home owner's association but I unplugged the boxes about a year ago after realizing it had been more than a year since I'd bothered using them, so as to stop wasting the electricity. It's a part of the internet bundle and we get the streaming apps for Disney, AMC, Paramount and HBO through the deal so whatever.

But back to the point, If not for smart phones, I think Disney would be in HUGE trouble with their standby lines today. They benefit immensely in the parks by most of their guests showing up with their own entertainment that they likely spend more time using without even realizing it, than Disney is providing them.

 

[MrPromey]

For the record, if anyone wants to argue that people would prefer to wait 2-3 minutes for lots of 2-3 minute attractions, I could see that being the case but I think a park that was nothing but that could not be a whole-day experience for most people because I think a lot would suffer from overload if stimulation were switching back and forth that quickly, even if they had enough of those to take up a whole day.

When we go to a park on a slow day and get more done in 5 hours than we normally would in 9 or 10, we usually go home more tired than we did spending the whole day there, even if we're happy we got to do more.

 

[Ghost93]

I am SHOCKED that people are suggesting people prefer shorter attractions. If I have to wait an hour or longer for a ride, I definitely want the ride to be as long as possible to make it worth the wait.

Pirates of the Carribean, Splash Mountain, Jungle Cruise, Haunted Mansion, etc. were all great because they were a full 10ish minute experience. The biggest issue with something like Na'vi River journey is it ends so quickly!

 

[neo999955]

I am SHOCKED that people are suggesting people prefer shorter attractions. If I have to wait an hour or longer for a ride, I definitely want the ride to be as long as possible to make it worth the wait.

Pirates of the Carribean, Splash Mountain, Jungle Cruise, Haunted Mansion, etc. were all great because they were a full 10ish minute experience. The biggest issue with something like Na'vi River journey is it ends so quickly!

Couldn't agree more. Major E-ticket rides should all be 4-5 minutes minimum IMO. Obviously pre-shows help with this as well - I think Rise is the best of any ride ever and I would hope the dark ride aims for that quality, length and immersion.

Obviously, coasters are different, but I think 2 minutes is a good floor for a themed top-tier coaster. Both Hagrid's and Cosmic Rewind feel like solid lengths to me.

 

[DisneyHead123]

I'm not sure you need that much of an attention span for a 10 minute ride and I find it hard to believe that most people would prefer to wait 40-60+ minutes for a 1 minute quality attraction vs. a 10 minute quality attraction.

I understand that roller coasters are typically not long but Escape from Gringots is 5 so it's certainly possible to make a ride with thrill elements that's more than a couple of minutes if they actually want to and that one has some of the highest wait times at Univeral Studio so I don't think it being more than a minute or two long is hurting it's popularity.

I do think people get bored more easily today than they used to and that more frequent stimulation is needed to keep that attention but isn't that what these attractions are supposed to be?

I suspect if you were able to reverse it - wait in a line for 1-3 minutes for a 40-60 minute attraction vs. 40-60 minutes waiting for a 1-3 minute attraction, most people would choose the longer attraction vs. the longer line, wouldn't you?

Aaaaaa, absolutely not! A 60 minute attraction? You would find me trying to slip out from under the safety bar and escape.

We're talking in extremes here though - 1 minute attractions, 60 minute attractions. I'd say realistically we're looking at ranges from 5-12 minutes (I thought Shanghai Pirates was 12 for some reason, not sure where I got that. Google actually says 8.)

My theory is this - I don't think people would consciously say "I really need this ride to be about 4 minutes shorter in order to give it a higher guest satisfaction rating." I rarely to never think about the length of rides. But unless you're talking about the best of the best rides (like Rise), I think you can have a "law of diminishing returns" situation. Rides seem interesting because you're whisked abruptly into a unique set of sensory circumstances, whirlwind shown around, and then spit back out again before you entirely processed what happened. There's a sharp event boundary on either side that tells your dopamine system "Something significant just happened!!"

It's kind of like a kid with a mechanical toy - if it's that Newton's cradle on someone's desk that they can only see for about 30 seconds, it's fascinating. If it's that $200 Christmas gift that they are allowed to explore until they are familiar with every nuance, it often ends up discarded in the closet with whines of "I'm booooored."

Again, just a theory. Alternately, maybe people would relate to rides more like movies and get more involved in the plot if they were longer. Maybe it would allow them to feel more fully immersed in that particular universe and create a stronger inclination to return. Without guest satisfaction scores no way for me to really confirm any possible patterns.

 

[Bocabear]

Aaaaaa, absolutely not! A 60 minute attraction? You would find me trying to slip out from under the safety bar and escape.

We're talking in extremes here though - 1 minute attractions, 60 minute attractions. I'd say realistically we're looking at ranges from 5-12 minutes (I thought Shanghai Pirates was 12 for some reason, not sure where I got that. Google actually says 8.)

My theory is this - I don't think people would consciously say "I really need this ride to be about 4 minutes shorter in order to give it a higher guest satisfaction rating." I rarely to never think about the length of rides. But unless you're talking about the best of the best rides (like Rise), I think you can have a "law of diminishing returns" situation. Rides seem interesting because you're whisked abruptly into a unique set of sensory circumstances, whirlwind shown around, and then spit back out again before you entirely processed what happened. There's a sharp event boundary on either side that tells your dopamine system "Something significant just happened!!"

It's kind of like a kid with a mechanical toy - if it's that Newton's cradle on someone's desk that they can only see for about 30 seconds, it's fascinating. If it's that $200 Christmas gift that they are allowed to explore until they are familiar with every nuance, it often ends up discarded in the closet with whines of "I'm booooored."

Again, just a theory. Alternately, maybe people would relate to rides more like movies and get more involved in the plot if they were longer. Maybe it would allow them to feel more fully immersed in that particular universe and create a stronger inclination to return. Without guest satisfaction scores no way for me to really confirm any possible patterns.

UOE was probably the longest attraction of any ride built in a Disney park....and that was not even close to 60 minutes... So there would be no worry about them ever building a ride that long... I do miss attractions like Horizons where it really felt like a journey.....instead of the 2-3 minute attractions of today...Hi\egher cost for the consumer overall, more time spent in long lines...(unless you want to double up on your admission cost) and still none of the rides are much over a couple minutes...

 

[MrPromey]

Aaaaaa, absolutely not! A 60 minute attraction? You would find me trying to slip out from under the safety bar and escape.

We're talking in extremes here though - 1 minute attractions, 60 minute attractions. I'd say realistically we're looking at ranges from 5-12 minutes (I thought Shanghai Pirates was 12 for some reason, not sure where I got that. Google actually says 8.)

My theory is this - I don't think people would consciously say "I really need this ride to be about 4 minutes shorter in order to give it a higher guest satisfaction rating." I rarely to never think about the length of rides. But unless you're talking about the best of the best rides (like Rise), I think you can have a "law of diminishing returns" situation. Rides seem interesting because you're whisked abruptly into a unique set of sensory circumstances, whirlwind shown around, and then spit back out again before you entirely processed what happened. There's a sharp event boundary on either side that tells your dopamine system "Something significant just happened!!"

It's kind of like a kid with a mechanical toy - if it's that Newton's cradle on someone's desk that they can only see for about 30 seconds, it's fascinating. If it's that $200 Christmas gift that they are allowed to explore until they are familiar with every nuance, it often ends up discarded in the closet with whines of "I'm booooored."

Again, just a theory. Alternately, maybe people would relate to rides more like movies and get more involved in the plot if they were longer. Maybe it would allow them to feel more fully immersed in that particular universe and create a stronger inclination to return. Without guest satisfaction scores no way for me to really confirm any possible patterns.

Curveball: lets say it's a boat ride like Pirates or IASW. On the one hand, there's no safety bar but on the other, you're escape requires wading through 3-4 feet of water. Does that change anything?

Yeah, we absolutely are (talking in extremes). My 60 minutes extreme just came from flipping the time people wait with the time people spend on many of the newere attractions.

I agree the sweet spot for most attractions would be under the 20 minute mark and I don't think anyone is consciously thinking about the attraction length, either or TRON would have a lower wait. (as someone who waited 90 minutes for that 1 minute ride and got off it wishing it had been about twice as long and only later thinking about how long we waited for it)

Riffing off your final statement, I could see a FOP as part of a larger experience similar to the way Rise works that's much longer but for just that simulator, there are obviously time constraints for how expensive it would be to support guest throughput with those screens and a longer movie, as well as limits to how long that seating would be comfortable and for how long people want to be jostled around.

Making that longer along, even if financially/technically possible would require a more traditional seat and many periods of limited movement which would hurt the effect of the simulated flight.

My own personal argument isn't that we should go back to the days of the 2 hour studio tour at Hollywood Studios, just that I would like to see not every new attraction guaranteed to have a massive wait always have such a short runtime (an argument I hold for both Universal and Disney).

Disney considering it acceptable for someone to spend a full day in their parks and experience 6 attractions, when most of those attractions are three minutes of less is not in my opinion, acceptable. If we're generous and say they average 4 minutes each, that would mean in an entire day someone is getting 24 minutes of actual attraction time. I guess maybe 44 minutes of entertainment if they also watched a parade. We all know where most of the rest of that 7+ hours is going and it's not shopping and dining.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Curveball: lets say it's a boat ride like Pirates or IASW. On the one hand, there's no safety bar but on the other, you're escape requires wading through 3-4 feet of water. Does that change anything?

Yeah, we absolutely are (talking in extremes). My 60 minutes extreme just came from flipping the time people wait with the time people spend on many of the newere attractions.

I agree the sweet spot for most attractions would be under the 20 minute mark and I don't think anyone is consciously thinking about the attraction length, either or TRON would have a lower wait. (as someone who waited 90 minutes for that 1 minute ride and got off it wishing it had been about twice as long and only later thinking about how long we waited for it)

Riffing off your final statement, I could see a FOP as part of a larger experience similar to the way Rise works that's much longer but for just that simulator, there are obviously time constraints for how expensive it would be to support guest throughput with those screens and a longer movie, as well as limits to how long that seating would be comfortable and for how long people want to be jostled around.

Making that longer along, even if financially/technically possible would require a more traditional seat and many periods of limited movement which would hurt the effect of the simulated flight.

My own personal argument isn't that we should go back to the days of the 2 hour studio tour at Hollywood Studios, just that I would like to see not every new attraction guaranteed to have a massive wait always have such a short runtime (an argument I hold for both Universal and Disney).

Disney considering it acceptable for someone to spend a full day in their parks and experience 6 attractions, when most of those attractions are three minutes of less is not in my opinion, acceptable. If we're generous and say they average 4 minutes each, that would mean in an entire day someone is getting 24 minutes of actual attraction time. I guess maybe 44 minutes of entertainment if they also watched a parade. We all know where most of the rest of that 7+ hours is going and it's not shopping and dining.

Yes, but if you just spend more money, you can bump that up to 60 minutes of attraction time in a day!

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

So your argument for debate is intentionally based entirely on the subjective opinion of an audience of one? Got it!

The second part is because of your specific comment about there only being about a minute of actual coaster in the ride.

And splitting hairs? a 5 minute thrill ride is 40% longer than a 3 minute thrill ride. When you're only talking minutes that can be counted on one hand, each additional minute counts for a lot. For instance, comparing that 5 minute thrill ride to say, Tron, it's about 400% longer.*

As for of-the-moment wait times working as any kind of valid "argument", at this moment, the wait for Gringots is second only to Hogwarts express and Simpsion's (screenshots for reference) is 10 minutes so I'm not sure what the value of such anecdotal evidence is vs. the trend/average:

View attachment 910750View attachment 910751

Also, don't worry, I'll be charging my phone, soon.

*fun fact: the ride time of TRON is about equal to the median time an untrained adult is able to hold their breath for or about the same as the freefall time when skydiving before a parachute is normally deployed. If ever there were a coaster ride with a theme where specifically, screen-based story elements could have enhanced the overall experience while also extending the ride time, this one's it.

Okay its not a 5 minute thrill ride though, we have agreed its a one minute thrill ride, 4 minute screen simulator at this point.

 

[Mortimer Mouse]

The entire first half of the Disneyland version takes place in a cave full of skeletons and the town portion is quite scary when you think about the implications. You literally see someone being essentially waterboarded and they literally arson a town which we know has people who live there, and it also is implied at the end that the pirates blow themselves up by shooting at explosives, of course the Jack Sparrow Treasure Room scene added much later seems to undercut the original idea and of course there were two scenes which probably went a bit too far even for 1967. I will admit different people have different definitions of "scary"

Pirates of the Caribbean

Changing Times or PC Overreach?

vocal.media

Disney absolutely embraced scares and fright during the first half of the companies existence, because it was much better understood that family entertainment meant something for adults, too. I mean, creating entertainment for both kids AND adults is the secret behind the success of Disney, something it easily forgets these days.

 

[aladdin2007]

Just read 3 pages of gringotts and other coasters, nothing to do with Villains Land ,,,,,

 

[rreading]

So your point is that you don’t consider a short wait for an old, outdated attraction you didn’t particularly enjoy, to be worth it. An attraction that was a relatively cheap refurb of an even older ride, and that arguably downgraded the experience in favor of pop-culture references that were already older than most of its audience by the time it closed?

That’s fine, I guess but it doesn’t really have anything to do with what I’m saying.

Rise of the Resistance is about a 20-minute attraction.

Do you not like that one either?

Do you think the reason it’s more popular is simply because it’s about 10 minutes shorter than Ellen’s Energy Adventure was? And if it were 10 minutes longer, do you think that would suddenly turn its usual hour-long wait into a walk-on?

If they were to make that a 33 minute attraction and you had the option to spend that 33 minutes on the ride with nearly zero wait, would you consider that a worse thing than currently spending an hour standing in line for it to be 20 minutes?

Do you actually enjoy your time in the line so much you'd prefer to do that than be on the ride?

Prefer time in line? No. But prefer time in World Showcase? Yes.

If mission space didn’t have all the preshows (or maybe if they were better, I suppose) we would also ride that one more often.

I thought Splash Mountain was a great ride, but I was glad that the length of the queue prohibited riding it more than once via fast pass.

I’m not really saying that I prefer a shorter ride but bigger rides do take a bigger chunk of my limited time (and while ROTR is great, even it is kinda a “not necessarily” even when the line is short). Smaller commitments can be easier. And we generally try to avoid lines whenever possible

Were I there for more than three days per trip (max) or a local then I might feel differently

YMMV. Certainly. But the world is interesting because people have different perspectives

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

If mission space didn’t have all the preshows (or maybe if they were better, I suppose) we would also ride that one more often.

You’re not waiting longer because of the pre shows at Mission Space.

 

[rreading]

You’re not waiting longer because of the pre shows at Mission Space.

Perhaps not…but a “walk on” on Small World gets you right on the boat. Whereas a “walk on” has two ride cycles in front of you whether or not anyone is on those rides, right?

Again- were the preshows better quality then I wouldn’t be complaining (or we would ride it more); but as it is, we like the actual ride experience and never get in line for it

 

[gorillaball]

And splitting hairs? a 5 minute thrill ride is 40% longer than a 3 minute thrill ride.

I want to split hairs! A 5 minute ride is 67% longer than a 3 minute ride.