Rumor Where could a 5th Gate go at Disney World

[Ayla]

Why is this labeled as a rumor if it’s just Armchair Imagineering?

'Cause someone wants clicks.

 

[Purduevian]

Y'all are crazy... Tommy clearly put a lot of heart and work into this project and all everyone does is poop on it... He didn't put this in the rumors forum...

 

[lazyboy97o]

Y'all are crazy... Tommy clearly put a lot of heart and work into this project and all everyone does is poop on it... He didn't put this in the rumors forum...

The Armchair Imagineering forums are full of people putting a lot of heart into projects. They post in the appropriate forum and don’t label things Rumor, which is the big tag right there on the thread title.

 

[tommyhawkins]

The Armchair Imagineering forums are full of people putting a lot of heart into projects. They post in the appropriate forum and don’t label things Rumor, which is the big tag right there on the thread title.

You sound like a total bully to be honest.

 

[BrianLo]

He didn't put this in the rumors forum...

He did. It was moved by moderators last night.

 

[BrianLo]

I did in fact read the article yesterday and wasn’t looking to pile on.

Two fundamental things I disagree with. Disney is not chasing length of stay; I would not confuse what Universal needs to do to close the gap with what Disney’s priorities are.

The second is that I don’t think it’s to their benefit to daisy chain parks even further. The MK-Epcot corridor is already busy as it is. IF a park was to be planned I think having a new satellite out in the flamingo parcels would make a lot more sense to spread guests further around property than dramatically concentrate them around the TTC and Seven Seas.

 

[lazyboy97o]

You sound like a total bully to be honest.

What did I say that is mean or untrue?

 

[Purduevian]

He did. It was moved by moderators last night.

My bad. I just see a lot of hardwork and pretty rationale thinking in the article. People just seem like there piling on the guy.

 

[danlb_2000]

Back to what the original topic was about, not whether they should build a new gate...


I agree with 100% with Tommy, although I'd go one step further and take over the entirety of the existing MK parking lot for the new gate, and put a giant new transportation center where Tommy suggests the new park should be located.

This is an outdated map, as evident by the lack of changes to the MK parking lot, but it's the general idea of what I expect.
View attachment 906510

Any resort that close to a park would never be a moderate.

 

[danlb_2000]

Y'all are crazy... Tommy clearly put a lot of heart and work into this project and all everyone does is poop on it... He didn't put this in the rumors forum...

Welcome to the internet, enjoy your stay.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Why is this labeled as a rumor if it’s just Armchair Imagineering?

Slow news day?

 

[UNCgolf]

I think in a decade we're talking about Universal building their fourth dry park next to EU and how Disney is starting to clear land.

That would be pretty dumb for both companies unless they both plan on building a tremendous amount of unannounced projects over the next decade across all of their existing parks (well, except Magic Kingdom).

Doesn't mean they won't do it, though.

 

[lazyboy97o]

That would be pretty dumb for both companies unless they both plan on building a tremendous amount of unannounced projects over the next decade across all of their existing parks.

Doesn't mean they won't do it, though.

Universal in general is trying to contain costs at the moment, even with new parks opening elsewhere. Universal Studios United Kingdom isn’t going follow the last two parks being the most expensive in the world. I also imagine they’d build the second water park at Universal Orlando Resort before jumping into the fourth park which, due to the size and siting of Epic Universe, can’t be very big.

 

[drkarcher22]

The area around Wide World of Sports seems like a ripe area for one in the south end of the resort. I’m pretty sure I watched a YouTube video that suggested the area for it with it only taking a small section of the WWoS baseball fields in one corner beyond just using empty space years back

 

[DisneyHead123]

The article doesn't relitigate the question of IF this is happening. I am fully aware of the capital required for an undertaking of this nature - I cover this stuff all the time. Again, I urge you to read the article before assuming none of that was considered. If you dont want to, here is an extract:
"None of this is an argument that Disney should build a fifth gate tomorrow.

What this exercise demonstrates is something more restrained - and arguably more important. Disney already has the land. It already has the regulatory freedom. It already has the institutional knowledge. What it hasn’t had, for nearly three decades, is the opportunity to design a new Walt Disney World theme park without inheriting constraints from the past.

Every major issue facing the existing parks today - crowding, circulation, expansion friction, compromised sightlines, back-of-house conflicts — can be traced back to decisions that made sense at the time, but were never designed to scale to the resort Disney World has since become.

A fifth gate is the rare chance to reset that equation."


It weighs up the benefits of starting fresh, over other options, which I myself have explored in other articles and tweets over the years. I'm sure you could also consider the benefits of BOH consolidation discussed in the article, and how it could actual benefit the entire resort.

I am genuinely not trying to be jerky here, just make a point with a clear cut example. If I talked extensively to my neighbors about how I had the space in my driveway and legal right to buy a Lamborghini, and then said “Just wanted to describe that for you. As it turns out, I am about $600,000 short of what I need for a Lamborghini,” they would probably wonder why I was measuring my driveway.

I think if you want to get people chatting about this topic, you might have better luck delving into how this could potentially be a financial boon for Disney. I think that’s the final word on the topic - if it would ultimately be profitable, relatively likely it might happen. An argument in that direction might include potential solutions to labor shortages, past examples of how new builds have increased profitability, examples of untapped markets and how a 5th gate could be structured to appeal to them, possibilities such as making it an incremental project, etc.

I think it’s really cool that you put all the work and writing into your original post. I just think it’s hard for people to get excited about something that isn’t likely to happen.

 

[Moth]

That would be pretty dumb for both companies unless they both plan on building a tremendous amount of unannounced projects over the next decade across all of their existing parks (well, except Magic Kingdom).

Doesn't mean they won't do it, though.

Universal is the dumbest company around and I fully expect them to rush into another gate.

Maybeeee the plot next to EU is a second water park though. That's the only way it can get stupider since Volcano Bay is such a smashing success .

You're right though, I think the timing is closer to 15 years than 10 since Epic would probably be working on its first wholy new land by around ten years, Marvel or Toon should be under the knife and getting actively redone, and USF will probably end up with something going on there too since in ten years the glut of screen rides would definitely need to be addressed (TF, Fallon, Minions).

Slap on UGB being around 3-5 by then and getting it's first expansions, USH will definitely have something going on there, same for the other international parks that have been severely neglected (I think one is also getting a second gate too?). Universal wouldn't have the budget to build on that plot of land everyone says would be for a fourth dry park in ten years.

Slap on cruise line rumors to that and. Sheesh. Don't get me started on the possibility of further Kids and Unleashed stuff across the country.


So to restate it now that I have it laid in front of me:

In about fifteen years, I expect Universal to start going public about a fourth dry park in the space next to Epic, and the theme park community by then to be commenting how Disney in a post Shanghai second gate and post-DL3 world is starting to clear out a suspicious amount of land in Florida, like they're preparing for something.

Either that or we'll be having roasted rat and roach stew! I call the tail!

 

[UNCgolf]

Universal is the dumbest company around and I fully expect them to rush into another gate.

Maybeeee the plot next to EU is a second water park though. That's the only way it can get stupider since Volcano Bay is such a smashing success .

You're right though, I think the timing is closer to 15 years than 10 since Epic would probably be working on its first wholy new land by around ten years, Marvel or Toon should be under the knife and getting actively redone, and USF will probably end up with something going on there too since in ten years the glut of screen rides would definitely need to be addressed (TF, Fallon, Minions).

Slap on UGB being around 3-5 by then and getting it's first expansions, USH will definitely have something going on there, same for the other international parks that have been severely neglected (I think one is also getting a second gate too?). Universal wouldn't have the budget to build on that plot of land everyone says would be for a fourth dry park in ten years.

Slap on cruise line rumors to that and. Sheesh. Don't get me started on the possibility of further Kids and Unleashed stuff across the country.


So to restate it now that I have it laid in front of me:

In about fifteen years, I expect Universal to start going public about a fourth dry park in the space next to Epic, and the theme park community by then to be commenting how Disney in a post Shanghai second gate and post-DL3 world is starting to clear out a suspicious amount of land in Florida, like they're preparing for something.

Either that or we'll be having roasted rat and roach stew! I call the tail!

Yeah, putting Disney aside for the moment, I feel like all three parks at Universal need major work. USF needs a significant overhaul. Diagon Alley is great, but it really needs a second attraction (or third if you count Hogwarts Express), although I'm not sure where they'd build one nor do I know what it could possibly be at this point after what they've done elsewhere. I suppose they could eliminate the whole Men in Black section, and maybe should -- it's a solid target shooting ride, but the last film came out 7 years ago and flopped (although I think I saw somewhere that they were now working on another movie, so who knows).

Simpsons will presumably disappear and be replaced with something else soon, but the park is really lacking in quality attractions. I love ET, and Revenge of the Mummy is excellent, but that's basically it (I think Transformers is horrendous, although I know that's a minority opinion). Minions is bad, and the Dreamworks Land is basically a waste of space, although it's new so they probably don't have any plans for a change there in the next 10-15 years.

Islands of Adventure is in better shape with Hogsmeade and Jurassic Park (and they're already working on a replacement for Lost Continent), but as you mention, Toon Lagoon needs serious work if not a complete replacement (the vast majority of people under 40 have no idea who any of those characters are), and Marvel could use work as well. At the very least it would be nice to get rid of Doctor Doom's Fearfall, which can be found in amusement parks all over and is also low capacity. I'm personally not a fan of Reign of Kong and would love to see it go, but it's only been open for a decade so I doubt anything happens there (even though it's an orphan attraction that isn't connected to any of the lands).

Epic Universe is good but it needs multiple expansions because there's simply not enough to do.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Yeah, putting Disney aside for the moment, I feel like all three parks at Universal need major work. USF needs a significant overhaul. Diagon Alley is great, but it really needs a second attraction (or third if you count Hogwarts Express), although I'm not sure where they'd build one nor do I know what it could possibly be at this point after what they've done elsewhere. I suppose they could eliminate the whole Men in Black section, and maybe should -- it's a solid target shooting ride, but the last film came out 7 years ago and flopped (although I think I saw somewhere that they were now working on another movie, so who knows).

Simpsons will presumably disappear and be replaced with something else soon, but the park is really lacking in quality attractions. I love ET, and Revenge of the Mummy is excellent, but that's basically it (I think Transformers is horrendous, although I know that's a minority opinion). Minions is bad, and the Dreamworks Land is basically a waste of space, although it's new so they probably don't have any plans for a change there in the next 10-15 years.

Islands of Adventure is in better shape with Hogsmeade and Jurassic Park (and they're already working on a replacement for Lost Continent), but as you mention, Toon Lagoon needs serious work if not a complete replacement (the vast majority of people under 40 have no idea who any of those characters are), and Marvel could use work as well. At the very least it would be nice to get rid of Doctor Doom's Fearfall, which can found in amusement parks all over and also has a very low capacity. I'm personally not a fan of Reign of Kong and would love to see it go, but it's only been open for a decade so I doubt anything happens there (even though it's an orphan attraction that isn't connected to any of the lands).

Epic Universe is good but it needs multiple expansions because there's simply not enough to do.

You should put that in Substack and beg people to read the article for clicks. Oh wait…

 

[drkarcher22]

Yeah, putting Disney aside for the moment, I feel like all three parks at Universal need major work. USF needs a significant overhaul. Diagon Alley is great, but it really needs a second attraction (or third if you count Hogwarts Express), although I'm not sure where they'd build one nor do I know what it could possibly be at this point after what they've done elsewhere. I suppose they could eliminate the whole Men in Black section, and maybe should -- it's a solid target shooting ride, but the last film came out 7 years ago and flopped (although I think I saw somewhere that they were now working on another movie, so who knows).

Simpsons will presumably disappear and be replaced with something else soon, but the park is really lacking in quality attractions. I love ET, and Revenge of the Mummy is excellent, but that's basically it (I think Transformers is horrendous, although I know that's a minority opinion). Minions is bad, and the Dreamworks Land is basically a waste of space, although it's new so they probably don't have any plans for a change there in the next 10-15 years.

Islands of Adventure is in better shape with Hogsmeade and Jurassic Park (and they're already working on a replacement for Lost Continent), but as you mention, Toon Lagoon needs serious work if not a complete replacement (the vast majority of people under 40 have no idea who any of those characters are), and Marvel could use work as well. At the very least it would be nice to get rid of Doctor Doom's Fearfall, which can found in amusement parks all over and also has a very low capacity. I'm personally not a fan of Reign of Kong and would love to see it go, but it's only been open for a decade so I doubt anything happens there (even though it's an orphan attraction that isn't connected to any of the lands).

Epic Universe is good but it needs multiple expansions because there's simply not enough to do.

Diagon Alley has a brand new expansion spot that will be opening up in 2027 when F&F closes. While I hope they gut the building to put in a quality attraction, my gut says they’ll just retheme the existing attraction to Harry Potter and make it a Knight Bus ride. I hope I’m wrong since the ride system sucks but I can see them cheaping out there since, Pokémon in IoA is going to be expensive, as will the Potter expansion in Epic. Out of the three it seems like the one that would be the lowest priority, especially with the eventual Simpson area replacement, plus the whole back of the park needs a refresh. Empty Fear Factor building MiB needs a overhaul, the ride is showing it’s age and the property just isn’t popular anymore.

With IoA I really don’t see Marvel getting touched, Toon Lagoon absolutely though, just spend the money to retheme it to Bikini Bottom whenever possible

Finally, Epic absolutely needs to fast track another land because one additional ride in Potter is not going to fix their wait times issues, I’d say three at the minimum would help alleviate it

 

[DisneyFreak]

Back to what the original topic was about, not whether they should build a new gate...


I agree with 100% with Tommy, although I'd go one step further and take over the entirety of the existing MK parking lot for the new gate, and put a giant new transportation center where Tommy suggests the new park should be located.

This is an outdated map, as evident by the lack of changes to the MK parking lot, but it's the general idea of what I expect.
View attachment 906510

Those parking garages would be a nightmare to exit at park close!