Rumor Where could a 5th Gate go at Disney World

[DisneyHead123]

My speculation is that the next park-esque build might be one of those cruise line waterpark destinations like CocoCay. That’s not an endorsement, btw (many ecological implications) but it seems like that might be where cruise line competition is headed next.

 

[tommyhawkins]

Maybe actually read what OP wrote before posting? I would recommend it to be in the Imagineering thread though as it's mostly conceptual

you may be one of only two who took the time to read it. I dont know why its been put in a "will a fifth gate happen?" thread. I am very clear what the article is about. I set it up as a stand-alone thread for a reason.

I'm pretty sure their internal analytics have shown a 5th Gate would just cannibalize their other parks, certainly in terms of out-of-town guests, who can barely fit in the four parks (not to mention the pull of Universal).

As much as I would love a 5th gate, the smarter play here is to fully build out the existing parks (including all the abandoned area

what do you mean by "barely fit" - every park is oversubscribed, MK has a significant ride capacity deficit.

You can read about that here: https://tommythemed.substack.com/p/redefining-the-disney-difference

This.

We don’t need a ‘5th Gate’ when there is so much that can still be done with the four WDW Theme Parks currently operating.

I will never understand this obsession some fans have with the 5th Gate yearnings.
How about we focus on further fleshing out and improving the Parks we ALREADY HAVE?

All four WDW Parks have unused, formerly operating spaces just screaming for redevelopment.
We don’t need yet another Park…with yet another gate admission ….to spread out the offerings even thinner.
Build on the foundation you already have in place.

-

Eh, I don't think we need a fifth gate at the parks at this moment, it's best that Disney just uses any expansion plots for the four gates they have first before even considering a fifth gate, which even then is like 20+ years from now until we see it either get announced or opens

They refuse to build anything new without ripping out current builds. They will not build a 5th gate probably for the next generation or two.

Nowhere. Let's focus on the current parks more, and their *still* abandoned spaces (Tomorrowland, Wonders of Life, nighttime DAK) first. Next topic!

Actually reading the article comes highly recommended as I am not "some fan obsessed with a 5th gate". There are very clear reasons set out. Also, since this is not my first rodeo, I suggest reading the other articles related to significant capacity deficits in the existing parks as well as Comcasts aggressive strategy in Orlando - its all there to read before hitting "post reply"

 

[bmr1591]

One could potentially be fixed as soon as late next year.

No, I don’t believe so. Tomorrowland needs a ton of work. That’ll be a multi-year project and Imagineering has to come up with a concept that executives believe in, which they haven’t yet. As for Figment, that’ll be for EPCOT’s 50th. But I wouldn’t be surprised at an announcement this year at D23.

 

[TalkToEthan]

New Sheriff in town

No, no there is not.

That is some naivety to think that a new face—-particularly that face—- spells a new and excitingly meaningful direction.

There will be not one single profound change with this new administration, none.
Expect continued high prices, cartoonification of parks and IP shoehorned throughout with homogeneic product lines in gift shops and Moana and Toy Story part 8 and inedible park burgers

…..as for another park??? I will not take the 5th. I will say straight up it can not, will not happen; not in this lifetime nor the next.

 

[Andrew25]

I think in a decade we're talking about Universal building their fourth dry park next to EU and how Disney is starting to clear land.

If Tropical Americas doesn't sabotage attendance at the two (what I'd consider money makers of the resort) in Epcot and Magic Kingdom, a 5th gate is possible.

I want to stress that I'd rather see a full buildout of the existing parks, but if they're seeing attendance remain strong at their existing parks post this first phase of turbocharging the parks, it's likely a 5th could be a real option...

However, a 3rd gate at DLR is 100% the likelier option first.

DLR is more justified in getting a third gate than WDW a fifth. There is a reason they have been vague about plans for the toy story lot.

100%

If I were in charge of parks, expanding the Disneyland Resort (add'l parks, hotels, etc.) would be my priority. With DL bursting at the seams, and DCA receiving (a pretty major expansion period), I think the resort would be (outside Tomorrowland) in good position.

Add a large value resort themed to Toy Story (or a Pixar IP) at the Simba lot and you'll have a great resort.

 

[danlb_2000]

Some time on what exactly?

Rehashing a topic what been discussed to death in other threads.

 

[tommyhawkins]

Rehashing a topic what been discussed to death in other threads.

I refer to my previous response. This was not discussing whether it will happen or not. You could have clicked on the link and read it first, probably less mouse moves than finding an old thread

 

[fgmnt]

One thing that is constantly underrated is how the company’s lack of appetite for capacity building in existing gates factors into building a new gate. Building a new gate requires significant capital investment in back of house cost centers: brand new utility hookups, brand new cast member and guest services structures, brand new parking lots… then there is an indefinite operational commitment to maintaining and staffing it. You have to spend a lot of money on starting up a new park before you can make any money. Is there a real sense the company has that appetite in florida?

 

[tommyhawkins]

One thing that is constantly underrated is how the company’s lack of appetite for capacity building in existing gates factors into building a new gate. Building a new gate requires significant capital investment in back of house cost centers: brand new utility hookups, brand new cast member and guest services structures, brand new parking lots… then there is an indefinite operational commitment to maintaining and staffing it. You have to spend a lot of money on starting up a new park before you can make any money. Is there a real sense the company has that appetite in florida?

The article doesn't relitigate the question of IF this is happening. I am fully aware of the capital required for an undertaking of this nature - I cover this stuff all the time. Again, I urge you to read the article before assuming none of that was considered. If you dont want to, here is an extract:
"None of this is an argument that Disney should build a fifth gate tomorrow.

What this exercise demonstrates is something more restrained - and arguably more important. Disney already has the land. It already has the regulatory freedom. It already has the institutional knowledge. What it hasn’t had, for nearly three decades, is the opportunity to design a new Walt Disney World theme park without inheriting constraints from the past.

Every major issue facing the existing parks today - crowding, circulation, expansion friction, compromised sightlines, back-of-house conflicts — can be traced back to decisions that made sense at the time, but were never designed to scale to the resort Disney World has since become.

A fifth gate is the rare chance to reset that equation."


It weighs up the benefits of starting fresh, over other options, which I myself have explored in other articles and tweets over the years. I'm sure you could also consider the benefits of BOH consolidation discussed in the article, and how it could actual benefit the entire resort.

 

[Disstevefan1]

New Sheriff in town, did Daddy Josh promise to be as bullish as Comcast are? Or is he Chapek 2.0 with a sharpened axe? I'd be interested to know what the guy will do now he is holding the wallet.

Ever optimistic, if he takes a leaf from Comcast, I’ve just published a long-form article looking at what a fifth gate at Walt Disney World could realistically look like - but approached from a planning perspective rather than the usual IP wishlists.

Most of the discussion around a new Disney park lives seems to be much more abstract - including myths about if it's even possible. I wanted to treat it as if it were a real project and work through the constraints properly.

So I started with the district planning documents and land suitability maps to answer the obvious question first: where could a park actually go? Once you apply those filters, the options narrow very quickly.

From there I looked at what the existing parks struggle with and what modern parks like Epic Universe are getting right from a systems and infrastructure standpoint.

There is a full conceptual build in there too.

A Comprehensive Master Plan for a Fifth Gate at Walt Disney World

This article presents a comprehensive planning framework for a potential fifth theme park at Walt Disney World, drawing on district planning documents, land suitability analysis & modern park design

tommythemed.substack.com

Iger-Josh never wanted or will never want a fifth gate.

They don't even want to expand the existing parks that's why they destroy and replace attractions like, RoA, TSI, Muppets, Dinosaur, fountain of Nations........ Osborne lights etc.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Why is this labeled as a rumor if it’s just Armchair Imagineering?

 

[Moth]

No, I don’t believe so. Tomorrowland needs a ton of work. That’ll be a multi-year project and Imagineering has to come up with a concept that executives believe in, which they haven’t yet. As for Figment, that’ll be for EPCOT’s 50th. But I wouldn’t be surprised at an announcement this year at D23.

Imagination would be a quicker turnaround than people expect. I wholy expect an announcement at this year's D23, a ride closure by end of the year and a possible opening of late 2027 or early 2028.

The big ball is for the 50th.

 

[bmr1591]

Imagination would be a quicker turnaround than people expect. I wholy expect an announcement at this year's D23, a ride closure by end of the year and a possible opening of late 2027 or early 2028.

The big ball is for the 50th.

It depends on how much they want to do. Figment needs a lot more work and would be a bigger celebration for park fans than a Spaceship Earth refresh.

 

[danlb_2000]

This was not discussing whether it will happen or not.

... and how's that working out for you? Any thread about a 5th gate becomes a thread about whether it will/should happen or not.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Listen kids…

Just STOP

Halten Sie!


There is no market for another park in Walt Disney world.

It’s about money…the numbers don’t work and will never work.

Source: DAK circa 1999.

Don’t give life to this zombie idea

 

[Nickm2022]

I just don't want a 5th gate. Id rather take another gate at every other disney resort. WDW is great with 4 parks and personally would prefer to see 1-3 new lands at AK and HS plus fixing underutilized areas at MK and EP

 

[Andrew25]

Back to what the original topic was about, not whether they should build a new gate...


I agree with 100% with Tommy, although I'd go one step further and take over the entirety of the existing MK parking lot for the new gate, and put a giant new transportation center where Tommy suggests the new park should be located.

This is an outdated map, as evident by the lack of changes to the MK parking lot, but it's the general idea of what I expect.

 

[Purduevian]

Back to what the original topic was about, not whether they should build a new gate...


I agree with 100% with Tommy, although I'd go one step further and take over the entirety of the existing MK parking lot for the new gate, and put a giant new transportation center where Tommy suggests the new park should be located.

This is an outdated map, as evident by the lack of changes to the MK parking lot, but it's the general idea of what I expect.
View attachment 906510

Does no one read the article before posting?

One suggestion I personally liked — and one that has influenced my thinking more than most — was the idea of utilising the Transportation and Ticket Center parking area, which spans roughly 150 acres. On paper, it’s an attractive idea: large, central, and already integrated into the resort’s transport network. But here too, the short answer is that there are alternatives that preserve the value of that existing infrastructure rather than replacing it.

 

[tommyhawkins]

Back to what the original topic was about, not whether they should build a new gate...


I agree with 100% with Tommy, although I'd go one step further and take over the entirety of the existing MK parking lot for the new gate, and put a giant new transportation center where Tommy suggests the new park should be located.

This is an outdated map, as evident by the lack of changes to the MK parking lot, but it's the general idea of what I expect.
View attachment 906510

truth is, i have been eyeing this sort of layout in that location for quite some time but it makes no sense to double the amount or work and disruption.

 

[Purduevian]

truth is, i have been eyeing this sort of layout in that location for quite some time but it makes no sense to double the amount or work and disruption.

Honest question... when WDW originally built MK, EPCOT, and the resort areas... did they find suitable land or did they make it? Is Unsuitable land just a straight "no way to build" here or just that it would be more expensive?