MK Big Thunder Mountain to receive full retrack

[MisterPenguin]

Wouldn't "smoothing" BTM mean extensive changes to the concrete the tracks are on as well as changing the tracks themselves? Wouldn't changing the tracks be tantamount to a new build that would require extensive safety testing?

E.g., you take out the up and down mini-hills that give a slight air-time. But then that new straight-away makes for the cars to go faster. And then the next turn becomes dangerous.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Wouldn't "smoothing" BTM mean extensive changes to the concrete the tracks are on as well as changing the tracks themselves? Wouldn't changing the tracks be tantamount to a new build that would require extensive safety testing?

E.g., you take out the up and down mini-hills that give a slight air-time. But then that new straight-away makes for the cars to go faster. And then the next turn becomes dangerous.

The whole claim just feels like a story. The big thing that makes a lot of older coasters rougher is that they were not “heart-lined”, a practice that really started in the 90s with B&M. What this means is that center of rotation of the track is based on the chest of the average rider instead of the track itself. So yeah, changing all of that would be changing all sorts of stuff because the position of the track would be altered. And heart-lining isn’t done for everything because it’s know that moving certain ways is desirable, including the way a mine track and whip you around.

The other development that makes steel coasters smoother is 3D CNC pipe bending. This gives you bend that are very precise and consistent in the angles of the bend as well as more uniform pipe that can be smoothed out due to the material being pushed and pulled.

Big Thunder Mountain Railroad is rougher coaster than contemporary steel coaster because it was designed and built with limited technology. There’s nothing about it that really stands out as deliberately unique and more rough than other coasters from the 70s or earlier.

 

[Raineman]

Someone mentioned a "cave-in" section on BTMRR a couple of pages back. I might have my WDW fan card revoked for this, but what is and where is the cave-in section? I have a feeling that I'm going to feel really stupid when someone answers.

 

[ChrisFL]

could it be something added to the cars themselves to make it feel smoother? springs or something

 

[MisterPenguin]

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

could it be something added to the cars themselves to make it feel smoother? springs or something

I don’t think once it opens we’re going to notice a smoother ride to the extent people think we are. It will feel largely similar, albeit perhaps a bit more in shape. This retracking is more for longevity than it is for guest comfortability.

 

[Delta-7]

Someone mentioned a "cave-in" section on BTMRR a couple of pages back. I might have my WDW fan card revoked for this, but what is and where is the cave-in section? I have a feeling that I'm going to feel really stupid when someone answers.

It’s the C-lift tunnel. Boulders on both sides of the tunnel used to shake and appear to fall towards guests. Lanterns also used to sway. These effects gave the impression of an earthquake causing the mine shaft to cave in but have not worked for years. Which to be fair would lead to some guests not knowing this section is supposed to be a cave-in.

 

[monothingie]

I guess the Intagramaneers snuck in there while the real construction workers were at lunch...Except for the guys operating the crane.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Courtesy of Martin, here's the original third lift cave in effect-



I don't know when they first disabled these effects. I didn't visit WDW between 1998-2009, they were still working in 1997 but was no longer functioning by the time I returned in 2010. At the time, the shaking wall props on the sides had seemingly been removed entirely, and the holes left behind were covered by black tarps for a while. During a refurb in the years after, they filled them in with non-moving rockwork. The falling rocks above were also removed and replaced with some weird shadowy projection (not at all sure what they were going for as it did not look remotely like rocks falling, more like smoke rising or something).

It looks like California's version of BTM also had this effect based off old videos, though I believe it was also disabled years before the new explosion effects were implemented. Paris may also have had some variation of it, and in fact may be the reason why they were permanently removed in the US versions. There were reports of an accident on Paris' BTM in 2011 where some overhanging rock pieces dislodged and fell onto a train and injured a guest (DLP as a whole was very poorly maintained around this time). Again WDW's effect had already stopped working before this likely due to general lack of maintenance, but what happened at Paris is probably the reason the effect never returned at WDW and California. I'm not even sure if Tokyo ever had the full physical effect. Currently the lanterns and some of the other props shake, but not the stone walls. There also isn't a physical falling rock effect at the top either, just a projection of shadows of falling rocks.

I'd be shocked if we ever see a physical version of the effect again precisely for safety reasons. They might be able to simulate an illusion of walls shaking using projection mapping, and maybe also a layered pseudo-3D projection scrim at the top of the shaft for the falling rocks. But I dunno. If Brayden is to be believed, they cut the explosion effects due to budget. If that's the case, then maybe they'll just ignore this scene and not do anything with it at all...

 

[HMF]

Courtesy of Martin, here's the original third lift cave in effect-



I don't know when they first disabled these effects. I didn't visit WDW between 1998-2009, they were still working in 1997 but was no longer functioning by the time I returned in 2010. At the time, the shaking wall props on the sides had seemingly been removed entirely, and the holes left behind were covered by black tarps for a while. During a refurb in the years after, they filled them in with non-moving rockwork. The falling rocks above were also removed and replaced with some weird shadowy projection (not at all sure what they were going for as it did not look remotely like rocks falling, more like smoke rising or something).

It looks like California's version of BTM also had this effect based off old videos, though I believe it was also disabled years before the new explosion effects were implemented. Paris may also have had some variation of it, and in fact may be the reason why they were permanently removed in the US versions. There were reports of an accident on Paris' BTM in 2011 where some overhanging rock pieces dislodged and fell onto a train and injured a guest (DLP as a whole was very poorly maintained around this time). Again WDW's effect had already stopped working before this likely due to general lack of maintenance, but what happened at Paris is probably the reason the effect never returned at WDW and California. I'm not even sure if Tokyo ever had the full physical effect. Currently the lanterns and some of the other props shake, but not the stone walls. There also isn't a physical falling rock effect at the top either, just a projection of shadows of falling rocks.

I'd be shocked if we ever see a physical version of the effect again precisely for safety reasons. They might be able to simulate an illusion of walls shaking using projection mapping, and maybe also a layered pseudo-3D projection scrim at the top of the shaft for the falling rocks. But I dunno. If Brayden is to be believed, they cut the explosion effects due to budget. If that's the case, then maybe they'll just ignore this scene and not do anything with it at all...

I believe in the DL version this is now the cave with the dynamite effect though I could be wrong. I really hope we are due for that effect in Florida, but I have been disappointed before.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I believe in the DL version this is now the cave with the dynamite effect though I could be wrong. I really hope we are due for that effect in Florida, but I have been disappointed before.

It is yeah. A few years ago Paris also got California's third lift dynamite effects too. WDW has long been rumored to be getting them and everyone WAS assuming this refurb would finally be the one to add them. If not that specific effect, it still has to be SOMETHING...

It would be absurd if the first lift got new visual enhancements (along with whatever else they're doing to the rest of the ride whether plussing or just getting old broken down things working again) but just leave the third lift with nothing. It's completely asinine and pathetic that they've allowed it to remain the way it has for so long. Will be even more embarassing if they continue to ignore it. That said, Brayden's comments are cause for concern. The simple fact is that he has been right about quite a bit in recent years. Which is unfortunate because what he has to report is often bad news. I hope this breaks his streak, but we'll see.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

That said, Brayden's comments are cause for concern.

I must have missed something. What did he say?

 

[Bocabear]

(DLP as a whole was very poorly maintained around this time). Again WDW's effect had already stopped working before this likely due to general lack of maintenance, but what happened at Paris is probably the reason the effect never returned at WDW and California. I'm not even sure if Tokyo ever had the full physical effect. Currently the lanterns and some of the other props shake, but not the stone walls. There also isn't a physical falling rock effect at the top either, just a projection of shadows of falling rocks.

I'd be shocked if we ever see a physical version of the effect again precisely for safety reasons. They might be able to simulate an illusion of walls shaking using projection mapping, and maybe also a layered pseudo-3D projection scrim at the top of the shaft for the falling rocks. But I dunno. If Brayden is to be believed, they cut the explosion effects due to budget. If that's the case, then maybe they'll just ignore this scene and not do anything with it at all...

For Safety Reasons? The shaking walls were well off the track, The Falling Rocks were half models on armatures in a tableau well away from the track... I don't think this was ever a safety concern...more like required more maintenance... There was also an effect with a gold vein opening up in that scene... It was just a much better show scene and has kind of been a let down ever since that went away.... I really wish there was some way to blast the train out of that scene instead of the incredibly slow exit....

 

[lazyboy97o]

For Safety Reasons? The shaking walls were well off the track, The Falling Rocks were half models on armatures in a tableau well away from the track... I don't think this was ever a safety concern...more like required more maintenance... There was also an effect with a gold vein opening up in that scene... It was just a much better show scene and has kind of been a let down ever since that went away.... I really wish there was some way to blast the train out of that scene instead of the incredibly slow exit....

Overhead scenic elements fell on and injured guests at Disneyland Paris.

 

[Delta-7]

I must have missed something. What did he say?

At the end of this article—

Art Released for Big Thunder Mountain Update at Walt Disney World | Mickey Views

Today the Walt Disney World Resort announced the first official details on what kind of “new magic” will becoming to Big Thunder Mountain Railroad at the Magic Kingdom! Since January 6th, 2025, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad has been closed for a major refurbishment at Walt Disney World...

mickeyviews.com

 

[MisterPenguin]

Overhead scenic elements fell on and injured guests at Disneyland Paris.

Did they add a strobe, then?

 

[Raineman]

Courtesy of Martin, here's the original third lift cave in effect-



I don't know when they first disabled these effects. I didn't visit WDW between 1998-2009, they were still working in 1997 but was no longer functioning by the time I returned in 2010. At the time, the shaking wall props on the sides had seemingly been removed entirely, and the holes left behind were covered by black tarps for a while. During a refurb in the years after, they filled them in with non-moving rockwork. The falling rocks above were also removed and replaced with some weird shadowy projection (not at all sure what they were going for as it did not look remotely like rocks falling, more like smoke rising or something).

It looks like California's version of BTM also had this effect based off old videos, though I believe it was also disabled years before the new explosion effects were implemented. Paris may also have had some variation of it, and in fact may be the reason why they were permanently removed in the US versions. There were reports of an accident on Paris' BTM in 2011 where some overhanging rock pieces dislodged and fell onto a train and injured a guest (DLP as a whole was very poorly maintained around this time). Again WDW's effect had already stopped working before this likely due to general lack of maintenance, but what happened at Paris is probably the reason the effect never returned at WDW and California. I'm not even sure if Tokyo ever had the full physical effect. Currently the lanterns and some of the other props shake, but not the stone walls. There also isn't a physical falling rock effect at the top either, just a projection of shadows of falling rocks.

I'd be shocked if we ever see a physical version of the effect again precisely for safety reasons. They might be able to simulate an illusion of walls shaking using projection mapping, and maybe also a layered pseudo-3D projection scrim at the top of the shaft for the falling rocks. But I dunno. If Brayden is to be believed, they cut the explosion effects due to budget. If that's the case, then maybe they'll just ignore this scene and not do anything with it at all...

I kind of feel cheated now. I have been on BTMRR dozens of times from 2014-2019, and never saw this.

 

[Raineman]

Did they add a strobe, then?

They were going to re-install the falling objects, but they were afraid that it would cause too much stress on the structure of the ride, so they just put stationary boulders in place with the strobe, and b-mode was enabled.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Did they add a strobe, then?

That’s not funny. Have you ever been hit by a scenic baguette? It freakin’ hurts.

 

[splah]

i'm still curious why the track is black and not brown