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DHS Monster Inc Land Coming to Disney's Hollywood Studios

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
It’s the same exact buildings and facades that already existed with some additional props and a very poorly placed show building that wastes an immense amount of space. I like Monsters Inc too, but people are letting their fandom for the IP blind them to what is actually being built - which is, of course, the reaction Disney hopes for. This is a badly planned project that is absolutely not going to be some sort of revitalization.
 
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mattpeto

Well-Known Member
It’s the same exact buildings and facades that already existed with some additional props and a very poorly placed show building that wastes an immense amount of space. I like Monsters Inc too, but people are letting their fandom for the IP blind them to what is actually being built - which is, of course, the reaction Disney hopes for. This is a badly planned project that is absolutely not going to be some sort of revitalization.
Do you also consider that the fandom of losing MV3D for this new land might be blinding some of the takes here?
 

jah4955

Well-Known Member
They want you to be draining your wallet every nano-second you are on their property now, apparently.
That's hard to disagree with.

Once again, you just re-ignited so many memories on why I once enjoyed WDW more than anything else.

As a child, there was never one moment I felt a need to step into a gift shop [in retrospect my only regret for not going was my understanding that many used to be more cleverly themed]. The main reason being there was just so much being offered with the "price of admission." We only ate when we got hungry...we just wanted to enjoy what they included as much as possible. I didn't even think of souvenirs unless an attraction exit forced you through a shop (like Pirates)...and even then I was always, "Meh." I was all-the-more grateful for Fastpass 1.0 because it allowed us to cram even more value into each day.

We always got the maximum multi-day ticket option (whether 4, 5, or 10 days) because they never expire, and because we always spent a full day in the parks, the price "broken down" per hour was really nominal by any accounts...and overwhelming value for that.

...fast-forward to today, seemingly epitomized by your options for experiencing a theme park's attractions through an-already exorbitantly/exponentially inflated ticket price:
  • either only experience a few E-tickets in a given day
  • (how it was for my last several visits) only experience some A thru (arguably) D attractions. That's how it was my last few visits, and I didn't want to wait over 2 hours for anything/ever.
  • pay even more than you alraedy have for either LLs, LL equivalents, or extra-ticketed events.
 
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Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
Do you also consider that the fandom of losing MV3D for this new land might be blinding some of the takes here?

What's the ultimate rational for scrapping MV3D when the door coaster is being built entirely on an unused plot of land?

Why did Monsters Inc require an entire land, when the original pitch for the door coaster was part of Pixar Place?

With the amount of land being cleared for the coaster, why didn't they just build the new retail and dining there?

Or have the land be somewhere else in the park?

Why does every IP need a 10 acre land to being with? In a park where unrelated rides and shows already coexist?

Why invest in a new show for the 3D theater space if Muppet Vision was already proving slack capacity in a park that needs more of that, not less?

Who is being blinded by thinking about all of this?

(This doesn't even touch whether or not another roller coaster is what DHS really needs next)
 
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BrianLo

Well-Known Member
What's the ultimate rational for scrapping MV3D when the door coaster is being built entirely on an unused plot of land?

Why did Monsters Inc require an entire land, when the original pitch for the door coaster was part of Pixar Place?

With the amount of land being cleared for the coaster, why didn't they just build the new retail and dining there?

Or have the land be somewhere else in the park?

Why does every IP need a 10 acre land to being with? In a park where unrelated rides and shows already coexist?

Why invest in a new show for the 3D theater space if Muppet Vision was already proving slack capacity in a park that needs more of that, not less?

Who is being blinded by thinking about all of this?

(This doesn't even touch whether or not another roller coaster is what DHS really needs next)

Everything can be neatly summed up as we had a tabled attraction, wanted to greenlight projects ASAP and all the other details were ones of convenient afterthought.

Pushing it back is weird, I’m sure there in a reason. But now the onus is on the company to pivot and make it not a waste a space.

As far as an indoor roller coaster goes, I’m beyond certain it will prove popular and it’s not a bad decision in that regard. But it’s most certainly not the decision they would have made if not in a rush. In a different world with more planning they probably would have landed on a completely different concept in Animation Courtyard or a refilmed MV3D and a Muppets Dark ride.

I don’t hate this project, far from it, but I can easily see all the strange decisions made because they were running the race before the course was even decided on.
 

Fox&Hound

Well-Known Member
What's the ultimate rational for scrapping MV3D when the door coaster is being built entirely on an unused plot of land?

Why did Monsters Inc require an entire land, when the original pitch for the door coaster was part of Pixar Place?

With the amount of land being cleared for the coaster, why didn't they just build the new retail and dining there?

Or have the land be somewhere else in the park?

Why does every IP need a 10 acre land to being with? In a park where unrelated rides and shows already coexist?

Why invest in a new show for the 3D theater space if Muppet Vision was already proving slack capacity in a park that needs more of that, not less?

Who is being blinded by thinking about all of this?

(This doesn't even touch whether or not another roller coaster is what DHS really needs next)
I agree with these sentiments, but a cityscape muppets area and cityscape Monsters area would feel pretty redundant. If anything, I would argue Monsters makes for a much better land than Muppets. If they would just move MV3D, say next to the villains show, I think many people would be happier about this. Muppets was never a great land. It had the bones to be, but honestly, it never was.

Although I do hope they lean in to the weird food and roaming characters but SWL does give me a lot of hope.
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
Do you also consider that the fandom of losing MV3D for this new land might be blinding some of the takes here?
Sure. Everyone has biases. I will say, though, that some posters are more willing to look critically at their fandom than others and that’s a discussion that has come up on these boards previously. I love Marvel, film and comics, and think Avengers Campus is utter garbage. I dislike the Cars franchise but think Cars Land is a masterpiece. IP cannot save a badly done attraction or destroy a well done one. At the most, IP can elevate a well-done attraction if the IP compliments the artistry of the attraction itself.

Judgements regarding attractions are subjective, of course, but I think I’m on solid ground in arguing that Muppets was a strong melding of IP and attraction format carried out by creators with a very, very strong track record who were deeply personally invested in the property.

In contrast, I would argue the evidence that has been presented to us indicates that Monsters Land is a project that perpetuates many of Disneys most recent negative tendencies. The poor use of space, the choice to build yet another coaster in a box, the decision to build another restrictive thrill ride based on a family property in a park desperately in need of family attractions, the design choices driven by the need to sell Lightning Lanes, the severe budget-mindedness indicated by the nature of the overlay, etc. It’s also worth noting that modern Disney has demonstrated no ability to write shows, a fact that should have been driven home by the miserable Zootopia film. The fact that people like Monsters as an IP - that I like Monsters as an IP - does not offset any of this.
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
I agree with these sentiments, but a cityscape muppets area and cityscape Monsters area would feel pretty redundant. If anything, I would argue Monsters makes for a much better land than Muppets. If they would just move MV3D, say next to the villains show, I think many people would be happier about this. Muppets was never a great land. It had the bones to be, but honestly, it never was.

Although I do hope they lean in to the weird food and roaming characters but SWL does give me a lot of hope.
Why is Monsters a better idea for a land then Muppets? If you mean the IP is more current and more likely to move merch, yes, I’ll agree - but as a guest that isn’t my concern. Muppets anarchy and satire is a lot funnier then an endless series of monster puns slapped onto pre-existing structures. The latter, frankly, is another huge step in the infantilization of the parks. Just because something has been depicted in a film doesn’t mean it’s well suited to a land.
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
Everything can be neatly summed up as we had a tabled attraction, wanted to greenlight projects ASAP and all the other details were ones of convenient afterthought.

Pushing it back is weird, I’m sure there in a reason. But now the onus is on the company to pivot and make it not a waste a space.

As far as an indoor roller coaster goes, I’m beyond certain it will prove popular and it’s not a bad decision in that regard. But it’s most certainly not the decision they would have made if not in a rush. In a different world with more planning they probably would have landed on a completely different concept in Animation Courtyard or a refilmed MV3D and a Muppets Dark ride.

I don’t hate this project, far from it, but I can easily see all the strange decisions made because they were running the race before the course was even decided on.
If Disney was making poor decisions regarding this project out of haste it’s a sign of so many compounding mistakes and systemic failures that a lot of people should be fired, starting with the guy who’s about to become CEO of the company. The only time crunch here was entirely self-imposed.

I also suspect it’s the decision Disney would have made in any case. Muppets was an Eisner product with satirical humor that didn’t sell Lightning Lanes. Modern Disney execs dislike the Muppets, want to displace Eisner’s legacy, fear humor with even the slightest edge, and are invested body and soul in selling ride tickets.

The humor issue is a big one for me - Disney World used to be funny, and a lot of that rested on the willingness to poke fun at the Disney corporation, albeit in relatively safe ways. Think back to Cranium Command or Robin Williams in Animation or David Letterman introducing the Sound show or… the Muppets. Some of that was the spirit of the self-referential, post-modern 90s (boy, do I miss that) but a lot is modern Disney’s drive to aim everything at a distracted 5-year-old.
 

mattpeto

Well-Known Member
What's the ultimate rational for scrapping MV3D when the door coaster is being built entirely on an unused plot of land?

Why did Monsters Inc require an entire land, when the original pitch for the door coaster was part of Pixar Place?

With the amount of land being cleared for the coaster, why didn't they just build the new retail and dining there?

Or have the land be somewhere else in the park?

Why does every IP need a 10 acre land to being with? In a park where unrelated rides and shows already coexist?

Why invest in a new show for the 3D theater space if Muppet Vision was already proving slack capacity in a park that needs more of that, not less?

Who is being blinded by thinking about all of this?

(This doesn't even touch whether or not another roller coaster is what DHS really needs next)
At its core, I hear where you're at and I don't disagree completely.

I still can't wrap my head around people saying this is a "waste of space", when it's taking literally building out on a parking lot and expanding the boundaries of the park. That's where I think some of the opinion here may be bias-influenced: the project is taking away a forum favorite (and personally one of my mine too) and therefore it can't be a positive when it's all complete.

When the entire land opens, it will be a net-gain on capacity and a true expansion of the park. Monstropolis will have a theater show with a meet & greet area, a playground, upgraded dining and finally a new roller coaster in the land.

Yes it's pushed out quite far and I'm confused why that's a bad thing? Maybe they are doing that for sightlines or future expansion (potentially towards Star Tours).
 

Fox&Hound

Well-Known Member
Why is Monsters a better idea for a land then Muppets? If you mean the IP is more current and more likely to move merch, yes, I’ll agree - but as a guest that isn’t my concern. Muppets anarchy and satire is a lot funnier then an endless series of monster puns slapped onto pre-existing structures. The latter, frankly, is another huge step in the infantilization of the parks. Just because something has been depicted in a film doesn’t mean it’s well suited to a land.
Yeah I see that too. I guess I just feel that Muppets Courtyard sounded good on paper but never translated well in the real world. I would hope that monsters peeking out of windows and monster pun store names would be more creative than Muppets, but in reality, the Monsters city scape is not something people are really clamoring to visit. I think the will Door Coaster a hit because people would like to visit Monsters Inc- see Celia at the front desk, the line takes you into the locker rooms, past various monsters at work, and ends up in the scare floor. That has a lot of great visuals. But on second thought the land itself might just be “okay”. I am excited for this ride to finally come to life but it is a shame everything has to be a land these days. But Muppets was such a sad land (and DIS did that no doubt) but I guess new life with Monsters is better than what we have now.
 

mattpeto

Well-Known Member
I agree with these sentiments, but a cityscape muppets area and cityscape Monsters area would feel pretty redundant. If anything, I would argue Monsters makes for a much better land than Muppets. If they would just move MV3D, say next to the villains show, I think many people would be happier about this. Muppets was never a great land. It had the bones to be, but honestly, it never was.

Although I do hope they lean in to the weird food and roaming characters but SWL does give me a lot of hope.
I'd love for MV3D to return and that would be a home run for the community here.

Having two Muppet attractions next to each other and the ability to create a cohesive Muppets land - would be absolutely amazing.

That being said, I'd be shocked if it MV3D came back. I think there's a better chance for a brand new Muppets show in Sunset Showcase - which I'd be good with, but probably not a win for the community here.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
It’s also worth noting that modern Disney has demonstrated no ability to write shows, a fact that should have been driven home by the miserable Zootopia film.

I know this demonstrates my sheer uncouthness. But I like Country Bears, Mermaid and Villains. DCL has been putting out some wicked productions. However, I can see how the clearly worse new animated film might be the most prognostic.

If Disney was making poor decisions regarding this project out of haste it’s a sign of so many compounding mistakes and systemic failures that a lot of people should be fired, starting with the guy who’s about to become CEO of the company. The only time crunch here was entirely self-imposed.

It was self imposed for sure. But the boss was fired for it. External actors came into play and threatened them to increase investment with sheer disregard. We’re just still living in the downstream consequence era of Chapek, the Pandemic and Peltz and Co.

I also suspect it’s the decision Disney would have made in any case. Muppets was an Eisner product with satirical humor that didn’t sell Lightning Lanes. Modern Disney execs dislike the Muppets, want to displace Eisner’s legacy, fear humor with even the slightest edge, and are invested body and soul in selling ride tickets.

I’m not sure I think they are that purely negative on Muppets. They are bringing in a compensatory overlay, over an E ticket, and recently made them an after hours seasonal show headliner. I think you are looking a tad too hard for pure malice. Yea, I’m sure Iger thinks they are low tier on his IP popularity list, but then WDI has tenantship of the Muppets and that somewhat balances out the scales.

I still maintain a better run company that actually takes care of their shows would have already updated MV3D’s film. Even if that wasn’t the main drive here.
 

jah4955

Well-Known Member
I know this demonstrates my sheer uncouthness. But I like Country Bears, Mermaid and Villains. DCL has been putting out some wicked productions. However, I can see how the clearly worse new animated film might be the most prognostic.



It was self imposed for sure. But the boss was fired for it. External actors came into play and threatened them to increase investment with sheer disregard. We’re just still living in the downstream consequence era of Chapek, the Pandemic and Peltz and Co.



I’m not sure I think they are that purely negative on Muppets. They are bringing in a compensatory overlay, over an E ticket, and recently made them an after hours seasonal show headliner. I think you are looking a tad too hard for pure malice. Yea, I’m sure Iger thinks they are low tier on his IP popularity list, but then WDI has tenantship of the Muppets and that somewhat balances out the scales.

I still maintain a better run company that actually takes care of their shows would have already updated MV3D’s film. Even if that wasn’t the main drive here.
you just reminded me of this scene

1766948446038.png
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
At its core, I hear where you're at and I don't disagree completely.

I still can't wrap my head around people saying this is a "waste of space", when it's taking literally building out on a parking lot and expanding the boundaries of the park. That's where I think some of the opinion here may be bias-influenced: the project is taking away a forum favorite (and personally one of my mine too) and therefore it can't be a positive when it's all complete.
The issue isn’t so much that the project is “wasting space.” MGM has plenty of space. The problem is twofold - the project makes poor use of space in multiple ways and seems very certain to fail at “placemaking” because of this and the sprawl, out of proportion to what the project demands or can meaningfully use, highlights how unnecessary it was to kill Muppets.

The artful use of space to create areas that FEEL right, that FEEL like someplace else, is a huge part of the theme park art. A land like Diagon uses space in a much more thoughtful, artful, meaningful way then one like TSL and that’s a big reason Universal’s land FEELS like a lived in city while MGM’s FEELS like an amusement park area. I’m no expert in the field and others here can surely articulate this more skillfully then I can, but whether a space is big or small, it needs to be organized in certain ways to create the desired effect among guests. The failure to use space well is why SWl feels empty and dead in many places or why the EPCOT hub now feels like a disorganized maze. Monsters is marrying a well-made (though by no means perfect) urban area designed by long gone Imagineers with a vast, vast concrete sprawl punctuated by a warehouse, all with one way in or out. And again, that mismatch of areas coupled with the voluminous amount of nothing around the show building vividly illustrates how arbitrary the closure of Muppets was.
When the entire land opens, it will be a net-gain on capacity and a true expansion of the park.
It will be a net gain on capacity for some guests - not for guests with young children or disabled guests or elderly guests or unusually shaped guests. Disney NEVER used to build these attractions and it’s a big part of what made them special. Now it’s a majority of what they build.
Monstropolis will have a theater show with a meet & greet area, a playground, upgraded dining and finally a new roller coaster in the land.
You are making A LOT of assumptions here. Let’s imagine the theater is getting a full new film. What do you think are the odds it will be as good as Muppets? If it’s on the level of Zootopia, has the park increased or decreased in quality with the replacement of Muppets?

I don’t count formal meet n’ greets as a particular positive. It’s also not an addition - the Monsters have had dedicated spots in the Studios before.

The playground is another sign that Disney has lost its way. The rush to build play areas is a byproduct of Disney’s obsession with building major attractions families can’t ride together - they’re a stark betrayal of Walt’s original vision for the parks.

As for upgraded dining - I would be very surprised if Pizzarizzo doesn’t just get a new name and keep a very similar menu. If you’re a big fan of sushi - theme park sushi for timid eaters - sure, it’s an upgrade. Otherwise, the changes in dining will likely be a lateral move.
Yes it's pushed out quite far and I'm confused why that's a bad thing? Maybe they are doing that for sightlines or future expansion (potentially towards Star Tours).
This is the kind of wishful thinking that can be so annoying. It’s equalivent to the desperate claims that Disney was just saving the dead space of Animation Courtyard for something grand and new - a claim we heard for 20 years that has now been definitively proven to be nonsense. Again, MGM has plenty of space. What they are building here is a massive dead end that makes poor use of space.

And replacing Star Tours would make the park weaker.
 

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