DHS Disney Confirms Muppets Take Over Rock 'n' Roller Coaster at Hollywood Studios

[mattpeto]

Disney is not the Borg. There is no singular course of action. There are an array of assorted, competing and even often contradictory views, desires and goals.

I agree Disney isn’t a hive mind — but the sabotage argument does require some level of coordinated intent.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

I agree Disney isn’t a hive mind — but the sabotage argument does require some level of coordinated intent.

Journey Into Imagination’s situation during the Honey, I Shrunk the Audience days certainly showed it. Aswell as the situation with Winnie the Pooh (2011)’s theatrical release schedule and Mickey MouseWorks & House of Mouse’s lack of proper marketing in merchandising, etc. as I evidenced in other, more on topic threads surrounding those subjects specifically. Judging by the evidence seen there, it sure seems like it was coordinated.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Anyway, to take it all back to the topic at hand. While we have no way of fully confirming it was deliberate sabotage in this scenario specifically, we can at the very least argue that they have in the past with other attractions, shows, films, etc. in the past and that numerous factors regarding Muppet•Vision 3D, neglect being the biggest one in regards to merchandising and marketing, aswell as things like signage changes, could very feasibly have caused issues for Muppet•Vision 3D’s attendance in its later years.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Another thing that easily could’ve helped would’ve been “live” Muppet character performances (physical puppets and performers over pre-recorded audio tracks) around the Muppets Courtyard area to liven things up, but yeah.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

I know for a while that traveling Bunsen & Beaker MuppetLabs character show was at EPCOT of all places for a while also. Not sure if it was DHS at all at the time, but I feel in all honesty, it should’ve been placed in that area and the rest of DHS if anything, if it wasn’t prior. Yet another thing that would’ve driven attendance to the attraction.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Disney is not the Borg. There is no singular course of action. There are an array of assorted, competing and even often contradictory views, desires and goals.

That’s the important thing that’s getting missed by some posters….

It’s why saying “it was underutilized and Disney has the data!” isn’t helpful. It’s not simple and it’s not black and white.

It’s why I suggested (and was then attacked for suggesting it haha) in another thread how fascinating it would be to hear the actual internal debates on these decisions.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

I know I've been pushing my luck...but you just reminded me of the brief Woody show in the Diamond Horseshoe....now waaaay back

Boooorrrrinngggg

Imagine if they did the scene where Fozzie & Kermit meet (from The Muppet Movie--El Sleazo) in the Diamond Horseshoe!

A temporary or additional show/experience, sure, but to come fully at the expense of the original shows ever being seen again. No. And I’d also hope the older shows are marketed on social media and through merch, etc to get more folks interested in seeing them, rather than just giving up or putting no effort into that at all. Better to try getting ROI with something that doesn’t cost more money to put in rather than not make the attempt at all.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

If after those attempts fail, like, okay, those didn’t do well enough and thus it’s reasonable. But otherwise, just dumb to do that kind of thing where you replace older things entirely without even trying to see if better marketing/social media posts or merchandising could help them. That would save Disney a ton in development/project costs if so.

 

[EagleScout610]

Quick update to earlier, it turns out Freeman is both Rizzo and Bean now.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Quick update to earlier, it turns out Freeman is both Rizzo and Bean now.
View attachment 898913

Ahh, fascinating. I personally think he does a better job as Rizzo than Bean, but nonetheless, again, nice to see both characters back & utilized. And who knows, he may become better with Bean with time. Sends good vibes about the upcoming Muppet Show next year.

 

[mattpeto]

That’s the important thing that’s getting missed by some posters….

It’s why saying “it was underutilized and Disney has the data!” isn’t helpful. It’s not simple and it’s not black and white.

It’s why I suggested (and was then attacked for suggesting it haha) in another thread how fascinating it would be to hear the actual internal debates on these decisions.

Well why did they close Muppets?

 

[HMF]

Anyway, forgive me for the off-topic convo which, admittedly, went on for much too long. The point I was making was that, Yes, Disney has a history of sabotaging things from succeeding and the situation with Muppet•Vision 3D is far from the only time.

I feel a big reason why Muppet•Vision started losing attendance besides the lack of proper marketing on social media & merchandise, the new signage didn’t do itself any favors either. It became much less noticeable & permanent looking and started to look a lot smaller & more temporary IMO.

It also resembled the aesthetic of the recent Muppet movies which started strong but fizzled out because of the weak sequel.

 

[HMF]

Gotta say though, it really is a shame The Great Muppet Movie Ride wasn’t able to be built as initially intended for a Muppet Courtyard Expansion. With the loss of The Great Movie Ride and how well loved the characters are, that would’ve been fantastic to see/experience & would’ve been a guaranteed win for both Muppets & Parks fans I believe .

There likely would have been a much happier story for the Muppets ultimately if Jim had lived a few more decades.

 

[mattpeto]

It’s kind of ironic the crowd here wants more nuance on “intentional neglect” and “sabotage” but couldn’t give an inch of argument space to additional reasons why they closed MV3D and the timing around it.

 

[HMF]

I agree Disney isn’t a hive mind — but the sabotage argument does require some level of coordinated intent.

As with most huge corporations, the left hand doesn't always know what the right hand is doing which is why I think major anti-trust laws will be coming soon.

 

[HMF]

Journey Into Imagination’s situation during the Honey, I Shrunk the Audience days certainly showed it. Aswell as the situation with Winnie the Pooh (2011)’s theatrical release schedule and Mickey MouseWorks & House of Mouse’s lack of proper marketing in merchandising, etc. as I evidenced in other, more on topic threads surrounding those subjects specifically. Judging by the evidence seen there, it sure seems like it was coordinated.

I have no doubt that the timing of the release of Winnie the Pooh was intentionally designed to discredit traditional animation as an art form and use that as an excuse to clean house at WDAS and justify Disney ending the medium that made them popular in the first place.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Well why did they close Muppets?

I don’t think there is one simple answer.

I think that the door coaster location was possibly chosen because of construction timeline - the reason that the door coaster location = muppets close is because of the single IP land desire which honestly doesn’t make much sense to me.

 

[HMF]

I don’t think there is one simple answer.

I think that the door coaster location was possibly chosen because of construction timeline - the reason that the door coaster location = muppets close is because of the single IP land desire which honestly doesn’t make much sense to me.

The fact that Iger's franchise obsession has led to the belief that every IP no matter how minor or whether it really deserves it must have a whole land dedicated to them rather than a single attraction is also a factor.

 

[mattpeto]

I don’t think there is one simple answer.

I think that the door coaster location was possibly chosen because of construction timeline - the reason that the door coaster location = muppets close is because of the single IP land desire which honestly doesn’t make much sense to me.

I 100% agree with you on simple answer, but I do believe at the heart of it for MV3D and others is the attractions aren’t as popular as we think they are with the common guest.

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

I 100% agree with you on simple answer, but I do believe at the heart of it for MV3D and others is the attractions aren’t as popular as we think they are with the common guest.

I think the problem was that the entire area was pretty much walled off..if they didn't have it like that they would have had more traction in the area..