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News Guest dies, found unresponsive after riding Stardust Racers

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
I haven’t been on stardust - is “ejector” like what you feel on mako?
No that's floater.
Ejector airtime on a roller coaster is a powerful, sudden feeling of being forcefully lifted out of your seat, caused by strong negative G-forces (below -1G), unlike gentle "floater" airtime where you just lift slightly. It's characterized by a quick, sharp ejection into the restraints, often creating an intense, thrilling sensation of being thrown upwards, a key element in intense coaster experiences.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
No that's floater.
Ejector airtime on a roller coaster is a powerful, sudden feeling of being forcefully lifted out of your seat, caused by strong negative G-forces (below -1G), unlike gentle "floater" airtime where you just lift slightly. It's characterized by a quick, sharp ejection into the restraints, often creating an intense, thrilling sensation of being thrown upwards, a key element in intense coaster experiences.
What are some examples of coasters that have that?
 

maxairmike

Well-Known Member
All of these systems realistically are only "safe enough" - they can't be fool proof to all conditions, we just have to be sure companies embrace what are reasonable conditions to build for.

I still don't like the fear that a 'rag doll' situation could risk serious blunt force injury. I'd like to see that mapped out to ensure it's not a risk and ensure other attractions don't have similar concerns. Which in the current attraction means, explain why this victim was able to contact these surfaces but why we should assume others would not.

When I rode again last month, I specifically tried to see how far I could comfortably bend forward in the seat because given his build/stature, I just didn’t see how he would have reached the bar. It was uncomfortable against my lower ribcage pretty quickly, and I can’t imagine someone not having a completely fine/intact midsection to have that much motion, even when unconscious. I think the extenuating factors of dislocated hip(s) and broken femur presumably allowing him to not be properly restrained (although I still struggle with that amount of motion allowing him to reach that bar without him being likely to be removed from the vehicle mid-ride) means there should be almost no chance of that when properly restrained and meeting the height requirements. I don’t think I could have reached that bar even unconscious, really, and if I had, I can’t imagine how bad my chest would be.
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
I standby by my thoughts… It sure seems like a restraint system like space mountain in Paris would have prevented this death.

This is not the answer. There are thousands of roller coasters that have only a lap bar. Where do you draw the line on which ones need to be retrofitted with shoulder harnesses? All of them? When this has never been an issue for the entire history of roller coasters until now, when a person that shouldn't have been riding in the first place decided to ride?

I hate to be harsh, but the answer is that people need to accept that not everyone can do everything. It sucks, but that's life.

Is the proper solution limit who can ride?

Unfortunately, yes.
 

cjkeating

Well-Known Member
When I rode again last month, I specifically tried to see how far I could comfortably bend forward in the seat because given his build/stature, I just didn’t see how he would have reached the bar. It was uncomfortable against my lower ribcage pretty quickly, and I can’t imagine someone not having a completely fine/intact midsection to have that much motion, even when unconscious. I think the extenuating factors of dislocated hip(s) and broken femur presumably allowing him to not be properly restrained (although I still struggle with that amount of motion allowing him to reach that bar without him being likely to be removed from the vehicle mid-ride) means there should be almost no chance of that when properly restrained and meeting the height requirements. I don’t think I could have reached that bar even unconscious, really, and if I had, I can’t imagine how bad my chest would be.
I agree. I've ridden Stardust and a few other Macks since the accident with the same restraint type system and have no idea how someone could reach the points Kevin did conscious or unconscious. However having read the report now I think the broken femur and dislocated hip really played into this. I do dread to think quite what happened to his legs as I think this allowed him to get close to escaping the restraint - but obviously didn't so the restraint worked even with a compromised rider - but his upper body had much more freedom to come up and over the restraint bar and then hurt himself and the surrounding ride vehicle.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
Relying on your femurs not to fracture is absolutely a sound principle. It’s the only bone in the human body that supports your entire body weight with every other step (the tibia has the fibula, and you have multiple bones in your ankle, but it doesn’t support your lower leg on that side for people who to get real technical but the important fact remains it supports the heaviest weight in your body.) Wullf’s law states that a bone will strengthen to support the stress it receives over time and weaken if that stress is removed. Short of a disease (like metastatic cancer or osteoporosis) a femur of a walking human is not going to break unless it experiences overwhelming force, well above what any roller coaster is going to give. Sadly this “freak accident” exposed that non walking femurs can break under coaster riding conditions and thus the new rules make sense. If you can walk to the platform unassisted you likely do on a regular basis and therefore stress your femur enough to insure it’s strong enough to handle the force of a coaster.

Millions of handicapped individuals have ridden countless rides that are more forceful then Stardust without incident, but one death on a coaster is too much so the rules have changed. Like it or not, the industry has been doing this for years to obese individuals because of accidents on Intamin and RMCs with severely restricting body size because of freak accidents like this. Just because handicap people are a protected class does not shield them from a park wanting to protect their life. However the move to mostly lap bar type restraints are unlikely to reverse as the public much prefers the feeling of freedom and parks prefer lighter trains with less moving parts.
 

Jon81uk

Well-Known Member
I also wonder how much of a contributor factor was the fact the ride didn't stop. Would this event had been survivable if the ride was stopped? Yes I know the concerns about evacs out on the ride path, and debates about 'is it better to stop here, or at the station?', and the question over which may actually be faster to get help to a victim.. but it sure sounds plausible that in this accident, the fact the ride continued may have sealed this victim's fate. It's not a simple fix, nor a universal one, but makes you wonder... should guests be monitored during the ride? This is something actually technology could assist with.. monitoring video feeds and then alerting the control tower to intervene. Something to consider in future designs..
You can’t just stop a roller coaster, it will always roll and coast into the brakes. So on Stardust Racers it could only have been stopped on the launches or the brake run. There’s no point stopping g on the final brakes as it is far easier to get to people in the station and I doubt monitoring the launches would make any difference.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
You can’t just stop a roller coaster, it will always roll and coast into the brakes. So on Stardust Racers it could only have been stopped on the launches or the brake run. There’s no point stopping g on the final brakes as it is far easier to get to people in the station and I doubt monitoring the launches would make any difference.

Of course you only stop at the fixed spots… but these are designed to be accessed. This is all assumed understood by the audience.

not sure why you mention the final zone as if that were the only one relevent? The guy was having problems from the first drop.. and the point is the continued journey of the ride and his injuries.. could that have been minimized?
 
Last edited:

lewisc

Well-Known Member
All parties settled out of court.


Already posted in this thread
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
Original Poster

Already posted in this thread
Whoops. This thread is hard to follow.
 

Jon81uk

Well-Known Member
Of course you only stop at the fixed spots… but these are designed to be accessed. This is all assumed understood by the audience.

not sure why you mention the final zone as if that were the only one relevent? The guy was having problems from the first drop.. and the point is the continued journey of the ride and his injuries.. could that have been minimized?
Do you think you could pick out someone having issues from CCTV on a fast moving vehicle? Or are you proposing the train should come to a complete stop at each launch and someone walks the train checking everyone?

I didn’t just mention the final brakes, I also said about the launches. Just added that an e-stop on final brakes wouldn’t gain much over stopping a few seconds later in the station where access (and lighting etc) is much easier.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Do you think you could pick out someone having issues from CCTV on a fast moving vehicle? Or are you proposing the train should come to a complete stop at each launch and someone walks the train checking everyone?
Could you have a less genuine comment… especially when it was already addressed and you ignored it?
(Prior post)
This is something actually technology could assist with.. monitoring video feeds and then alerting the control tower to intervene. Something to consider in future designs..

I didn’t realize i needed to map out every baby step for the audience… you put integrated cameras facing the riders at each row. AI and interpretive software monitor the guests in realtime for unresponsive/emergency situation guests by monitoring head and face movements. When a condition is found, it escalates it along with the video feedto the control tower to interpret and act.


I didn’t just mention the final brakes, I also said about the launches. Just added that an e-stop on final brakes wouldn’t gain much over stopping a few seconds later in the station where access (and lighting etc) is much easier.

The system has multiple blocks - not just the launches and final brakes. it can run up to four trains simultaneously on each track. And i already addressed the point about most effective spot for evac - point here is could we avoid escalating in the future if designs actually incorporated guest monitoring.

Evacuating a broken leg and lacerations is a lot better than a dead rider.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
Could you have a less genuine comment… especially when it was already addressed and you ignored it?
(Prior post)


I didn’t realize i needed to map out every baby step for the audience… you put integrated cameras facing the riders at each row. AI and interpretive software monitor the guests in realtime for unresponsive/emergency situation guests by monitoring head and face movements. When a condition is found, it escalates it along with the video feedto the control tower to interpret and act.




The system has multiple blocks - not just the launches and final brakes. it can run up to four trains simultaneously on each track. And i already addressed the point about most effective spot for evac - point here is could we avoid escalating in the future if designs actually incorporated guest monitoring.

Evacuating a broken leg and lacerations is a lot better than a dead rider.
You have no idea if your solution would have saved him. For one, this ride is one of the vast majority of rides that has its most forceful elements in the first part of the ride. Your solution would have stopped the ride after the first airtime hill, the dive turn around, the zero-g roll, the second airtime hill, the double down and the ground level helix in the second launch track. I suspect his fate was sealed by this point as the GF said he acted weird right after the launch on that first hill. Second, there was no workers or volunteers on that platform to evac and treat, ride ops would have first had to lock down the ride, grab the manual release, and run up there. It would have only been 1 or 2 ride ops, no good smaritans would have been brought up there, and per the report he got CPR from a doctor on vacation. I think your solution would have lessened his chances of surviving.
 

networkpro

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
Its sad that someone has passed away on a ride with systems that protect the majority of its riders from serious injury , but they abrogate any culpability for the normal features like speed or G-Forces. There was no gross negligence, defects, or hidden risks like known mechanical issues or a documented pattern of employee or willful misconduct.

So no assuage all concerns parks need to medically monitor every guest on attractions as taking customers word that they have gone beyond the terms and conditions connected with the admission purchase (ie the commercial contract with the park) as well as any warning signs cautioning guests about these situations to not ride ?
  • Heart, back, or neck trouble/conditions
  • Pregnancy
  • Recent surgery or illness
  • Physical or mobility restrictions
  • Conditions that may be aggravated by the ride's motion, such as sudden movements, high speeds, or drops
  • Photosensitivity or seizure disorders
Some rides have E-Stops, but not all and not all are accessible at every foot to extract a guest with an issue.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
You have no idea if your solution would have saved him.
Please go back to the original post and find where I said I did??
I also wonder how much of a contributor factor was the fact the ride didn't stop. Would this event had been survivable if the ride was stopped?

'I also wonder how much of a CONTRIBUTING FACTOR...' -- This is a open ended QUESTION.

I suspect his fate was sealed by this point as the GF said he acted weird right after the launch on that first hill.
And what about any other situation for an emergency on a train? The world doesn't start and end with this one incident. The point was on this ride (and many other coasters) there is no practical way to even KNOW if intervention is needed.. and my proposal was a discussion on how this be improved and possibly benefit situations in the future.
Second, there was no workers or volunteers on that platform to evac and treat, ride ops would have first had to lock down the ride, grab the manual release, and run up there. It would have only been 1 or 2 ride ops, no good smaritans would have been brought up there, and per the report he got CPR from a doctor on vacation. I think your solution would have lessened his chances of surviving.
The unknown is, if his initial injuries were fatal or, if it were later injuries that sealed his fate.

The thing I was theorizing around was.. there is no practical way for ride ops to identify something mid-ride or even riders to flag something to ops -- Is that really the best we can do? Can innovation improve the safety of coasters here the same as ride monitoring in other types of rides has?
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
So no assuage all concerns parks need to medically monitor every guest on attractions as taking customers word that they have gone beyond the terms and conditions connected with the admission purchase (ie the commercial contract with the park) as well as any warning signs cautioning guests about these situations to not ride ?
Do we limit safety systems to only things we knew about before?
Do we limit safety systems to say "well, we don't need to do anything about that because we told people don't do it"?

Systems are designed to try to minimize injury even in the face of 'stupid human tricks' aka the public who don't listen.

Yes, ultimately you can't prevent everything - but we sure go a long way to stopping what might be preventable or at least minimized.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Of course you only stop at the fixed spots… but these are designed to be accessed. This is all assumed understood by the audience.
They’re designed for limited access by foot. They’re not designed for quick access by paramedics. It’s not just monitoring that would be needed, but significantly more infrastructure for access and use.

You’d also have to have these mid-points staffed so that there is someone present to direct riders. A big reason it is preferable to unload guests at the load station is that stopped guests can and do react erratically. You don’t want guests trying to get out to assist while they’re waiting for someone to arrive.

The big benefit to greater on-ride monitoring would be to be able to prep the load area and call for assistance.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
@flynnibus I think you are getting into the weeds here. Stardust has a 90 second ride cycle, learning of something a minute or less sooner isn’t going to change an outcome. This ride has its most forceful moments in its opening 30 seconds, assuming the ride is functioning properly (and if it’s not then it should be e-stopped) it’s almost always better to complete the ride cycle and get the injured back to the platform where help can be administered far quicker. I think you are using a long dark ride mindset to apply to a ride that cycles an order of magnitude faster. Your system would be great for SSE but not a roller coaster.
 

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