MK Piston Peak and Villains Land Construction Thread

[Stripes]

Yep, I've said it a bunch of times, but Disney management saw the Potter land and thought "oh, just get a popular IP and recreate it in a theme park", stripping away all other context about what makes those areas work versus a lot of other "IP Lands".

While I'm not particularly keen on Potter, myself, it's still a franchise based around "literary DNA": franchises based around a book don't just thrive on visuals, but can engage all of the senses because books come with descriptions of everything from the sights to the sounds to the smells and tastes and even feeling in the air. People liked getting to walk through Hogwarts on their way to the ride in Forbidden Journey, but they really loved coming to the land and knowing they'll get to try a butter beer or what have you. This makes translating an IP to a 3D themed entertainment space to much more straightforward and workable, and such thorough descriptions are often what makes people such fervent fans of that IP to begin with.

Instead, Disney just figured it was about the relevance and size of a given IP: just toss a name out there, and fans will come flocking, right? And then you plop something as bland as Toy Story Land down, or make a place like Galaxy's Edge that has some cool design elements but stems from a franchise that isn't really super invested in location-making, or you get Pandora which is well designed, but would likely be even more interesting if it wasn't associated with its IP, given that Avatar draws box office money but somehow doesn't have a ton of everyday cultural cache.

I actually think Pandora and Avatar work extremely well as a theme park land. A lot of people watch the Avatar movies over and over because they absolutely love the world that James Cameron created. It’s a level of escapism that is virtually unmatched. My theory as to why the films haven’t created a significant cultural impact is simply that few people actually want to be Jake Sully. The characters are wholesome, family-oriented characters and simply lack the “coolness” found in Han Solo or Lightning McQueen, for example. If you were to ask 100 people whether they’d rather be Lightning McQueen or Jake Sully, most of them would say Lightning McQueen.

 

[griffin ferrari]

From today

 

[DisneyHead123]

It also helps the Wizarding World lands that they are grounded in a timeless, charming part of the real world (shop-lined village streets, tavern, castle, train...). These things are cozy and relatable like a Thomas Kinkade painting. Who wouldn't want to go there and browse around a candy shop and buy a scarf with a hot bev? It's appealing like Main Street and New Orleans Square are.
View attachment 895858

Meanwhile, I walk around Star Wars Galaxy's Edge and it's well done in terms of details and scenic theming but overall is unrelatable and sad (even as an age 50s lifetime Star Wars fan). I don't want to just be happy there. Especially if I can go over to New Orleans Square instead and can hear jazz and watch the river traffic (talking about Disneyland of course, I'm west coast).

Galaxy’s Edge I think they were going for something kinda “rugged and masculine” to broaden their audience appeal, so I can see their logic there. (And I’m talking about gender not biological sex so don’t come at me blank slaters, lol.) I do think they succeeded with that type of appeal although it’s a bit more niche. I think they found more of a balance (in terms of broad appeal) later with Guardians, even though that’s a ride and not a land. And the failure of the Starcruiser probably hurt that land as well, as that was meant to be an available part of the whole experience. A lot of the liveliest elements seemed to be in the Starcruiser.

But in general I agree, I’m a big fan of the idea that you should build places where people want to be transported. There are plenty of things that are visually very cool and interesting but not places where people actually want to be. And I also think that if you invoke a pleasing archetype there’s actually less work to do because people’s minds fill in a lot of the blanks. I go to Riverside and feel transported when I see the waterwheel because that’s emblematic to me and I don’t need every other single detail filled in for a sense of place. There’s no effect like that in Toy Story land because it doesn’t represent any kind of iconic place to me.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Galaxy’s Edge I think they were going for something kinda “rugged and masculine” to broaden their audience appeal, so I can see their logic there.

Nothing says rugged and masculine like dressing up like a character from an 80’s franchise and carrying a plastic light up toy that you paid $200 for.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Nothing says rugged and masculine like dressing up like a character from an 80’s franchise and carrying a plastic light up toy that you paid $200 for.

Toy? Excuse me, those are artistic renderings. Good day sir!!

 

[Incomudro]

Galaxy’s Edge I think they were going for something kinda “rugged and masculine” to broaden their audience appeal, so I can see their logic there. (And I’m talking about gender not biological sex so don’t come at me blank slaters, lol.) I do think they succeeded with that type of appeal although it’s a bit more niche. I think they found more of a balance (in terms of broad appeal) later with Guardians, even though that’s a ride and not a land. And the failure of the Starcruiser probably hurt that land as well, as that was meant to be an available part of the whole experience. A lot of the liveliest elements seemed to be in the Starcruiser.

But in general I agree, I’m a big fan of the idea that you should build places where people want to be transported. There are plenty of things that are visually very cool and interesting but not places where people actually want to be. And I also think that if you invoke a pleasing archetype there’s actually less work to do because people’s minds fill in a lot of the blanks. I go to Riverside and feel transported when I see the waterwheel because that’s emblematic to me and I don’t need every other single detail filled in for a sense of place. There’s no effect like that in Toy Story land because it doesn’t represent any kind of iconic place to me.

GE would work so much better if turrets and radar dishes turned.
Ship fired up like they were ready to go, and/or crews worked on them like they were getting them ready.
If the market area had streetmosphere characters haggling, playing music etc.
It's all so static.
There are no kinetics at all.
It would be further helped if it wasn't locked into the sequels.

 

[Ayla]

It’s from Rohde’s Instagram originally if anyone wants to read it there. I can’t seem to copy paste or directly link Insta posts or I would (not sure if it’s my phone or if I’m becoming illiterate with new technology, ha ha).

I agree with Rohde’s take on the type of intricate, detailed, exploration-encouraging lands that I think fit the psychology of this moment. To be fair, there were probably other moments in time when other things fit. So I think it’s relative. When I look at Toy Story Land, for example, my complaint is that while it’s colorful and delightful, it feels mostly like a bunch of tall signposts to look at. But wasn’t that kind of the thing in, say, the 50s? Era of the automobile, road signs and roadside attractions that were essentially just a bunch of interesting things to look at?

But again, in this moment of “unlocking levels”, cosplay, the cliched-but-still-applicable word “immersive”, and so on, I don’t think there’s a substitute for lands that are more like actual recreations of real, fantastical places.

Toy Story isn't set in the 50's.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Toy Story isn't set in the 50's.

I mean that general style - lots of interesting statue-type objects - might have been appealing to people in the 50s, as that seemed to be a thing in that era.

 

[DisneyHead123]

GE would work so much better if turrets and radar dishes turned.
Ship fired up like they were ready to go, and/or crews worked on them like they were getting them ready.
If the market area had streetmosphere characters haggling, playing music etc.
It's all so static.
There are no kinetics at all.
It would be further helped if it wasn't locked into the sequels.

I have a soft spot for GE as some of my family members love it, but yeah, I wish it had more of the “heart” from the movies.

 

[Fox&Hound]

I think GE is just depressing and bland looking. The drab colors would make an interesting backdrop for colorful roaming aliens, but by itself, it is kind of depressing.

 

[Disney Analyst]

From today View attachment 895959View attachment 895958

So Tiana has moved into logging also. Tiana Foods
And Lumber Co.

 

[DrStarlander]

Galaxy’s Edge I think they were going for something kinda “rugged and masculine” to broaden their audience appeal, so I can see their logic there.

But in general I agree, I’m a big fan of the idea that you should build places where people want to be transported.

You know I've wondered if there's an equivalent to the writing theory that "there are only seven basic stories" but for settings. By that I mean perhaps there are a limited number of archetypes of place-types as related to "the character," which in a theme park is the guest. Something like:

1. A place of wonder (magic world, nature...enchanted garden, National Park)
2. A place of peril (a risky place to be aware, alert...pirate port of call, dark alley)
3. A place of comfort (an embracing, homey, nostalgic and safe place...cozy village, small town, farm)
4. A place of celebration (not necessarily relaxing and not threatening but festive, celebratory...New Orleans, Las Vegas, Key West, joyful and stimulating).
Etc., perhaps a few more.

SWGE may have gone for a rugged sort of vibe but it didn't go far enough to achieve a place of peril. The First Order stuff is not present and over-the-top enough to feel threatening, there's not enough moral decay, seediness, selfishness of the citizenry, or displays of societal mercilessness and desperation to convey a place of peril. It's not a pirate town. It's not Tortuga in space.

And the other way they could have gone is more a place of celebration, a haven for space pirates to gamble and spend galactic credits with abandon. This kind of place would have more illuminated signs, more advertising, more capitalism, so to speak, with buskers and weird street musicians, "nightclubs" and hectic commercial energy.

Either a Tortuga in space, or a New Orleans in space, would have provided guests a better, more relatable analog and an understanding of their relationship/role in the place. Right now it's unclear -- not perilous, not celebratory, definitely not comfortable. And without creatures of all sizes and droids and weird things (a sarlacc pit in the center of town, a Rancor behind a huge gate, a mysterious Jedi training temple?), not wondrous.

 

[MisterPenguin]

From today View attachment 895959View attachment 895958

Enhance!

Enhance!!

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

And the other way they could have gone is more a place of celebration, a haven for space pirates to gamble and spend galactic credits with abandon. This kind of place would have more illuminated signs, more advertising, more capitalism, so to speak, with buskers and weird street musicians, "nightclubs" and hectic commercial energy.

Honestly - this is the easiest way to fix that land in like 2 seconds. I love that idea!!!

They have the talent - alumni from comedy warehouse are in the light saber experience every day…. Put them out into the land and get people laughing. Give passholders a reason to go spend some time in that land.

 

[DrStarlander]

Honestly - this is the easiest way to fix that land in like 2 seconds. I love that idea!!!

They have the talent - alumni from comedy warehouse are in the light saber experience every day…. Put them out into the land and get people laughing. Give passholders a reason to go spend some time in that land.

Absolutely, there's an opportunity to change (or really establish) the tone with street performers. Last time I was in Key West there was a guy doing the juggling and balancing stuff and a huge crowd gathered around and incorporated interactively into the "show." People loved it.

I can imagine a Star Wars version of that, a former Jedi reduced to performing for credits tossed in a can (or collected by his droid that walks around pestering people). He could be a really funny, bitter character with sharp jabs against the Jedi and the First Order (e.g., taunt the Stormtroopers walking by on patrol). He could be "the voice" for the town, expressing their annoyance at both sides.

And by credits, I do mean it would be cool if there were droids/machines you could buy credits from and then use them around the land in Star Wars versions of the Nickelodeons that used to be on Main Street, or games of skill and chance, a Star Wars version of a Pachinko parlor, that don't feel so much like a carnival but like gambling. So there's "play" happening, people celebrating, hollering, and emoting. We're space travelers in town, blowing our credits, looking to have fun and score big.

And while I love the idea of the Marrakesh market-like area with stalls the land has, it has always felt more dead to me than it should. I wonder if it would feel more lively if they converted it into a Cozy Cones style multi-stall food market that at night has the colorful lighting and "place to be" vibe of an Asian night market.

 

[networkpro]

GE would work so much better if turrets and radar dishes turned.
Ship fired up like they were ready to go, and/or crews worked on them like they were getting them ready.
If the market area had streetmosphere characters haggling, playing music etc.
It's all so static.
There are no kinetics at all.
It would be further helped if it wasn't locked into the sequels.

Plenty of kinetics in people fleeing the blue milk, observing the latest RotR downtime cast parade, and for whatever reason queuing for Oga's pork rinds with cinnamon.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Plenty of kinetics in people fleeing the blue milk, observing the latest RotR downtime cast parade, and for whatever reason queuing for Oga's pork rinds with cinnamon.

Or in Florida being confused by the closed ronto roasters stand that can only serve until lunch time! (Yes I’m still bitter!!!)

 

[DisneyHead123]

You know I've wondered if there's an equivalent to the writing theory that "there are only seven basic stories" but for settings. By that I mean perhaps there are a limited number of archetypes of place-types as related to "the character," which in a theme park is the guest. Something like:

1. A place of wonder (magic world, nature...enchanted garden, National Park)
2. A place of peril (a risky place to be aware, alert...pirate port of call, dark alley)
3. A place of comfort (an embracing, homey, nostalgic and safe place...cozy village, small town, farm)
4. A place of celebration (not necessarily relaxing and not threatening but festive, celebratory...New Orleans, Las Vegas, Key West, joyful and stimulating).
Etc., perhaps a few more.

That's interesting to think about. My guess is - there are only so many emotions that people tend to seek out. So you probably have correlates to those emotions. I.e.:

Tranquility - tropical oasis, silent snow covered landscape, mountain view with prayer flags fluttering silently

Comfort - classic cozy settings, fireplaces, favorite things, sweet smelling bakeries

Joy - parades, celebration, fireworks

Amazement - new feats of Imagineering or intricate settings, or a sighting of things that are valued but rare, like a rainbow bursting into view on an ordinary day. For my son the intricacies of various vehicles work although I find them pretty boring, ha ha, so clearly some individual variation on these. I would love love love to get him out to see the Queen Mary by Disneyland and watch his mind be blown.

Curiosity - Probably any setting with a lot to take in that's not easily visible at a surface glance. Not to harp on poor Toy Story Land again (it really is a cute land,) but to me you can glance at the decor there and you've pretty much got it. As opposed to the intricacy of the buildings on Main Street, which always leave a vague impression that you should look back as you've probably missed some detail.

Exhilaration - This might be something like the place of peril you describe, or a setting with a sense of adventure such as a jungle or maybe whatever they do with Villains land

And there's probably a lot of combinations of these. I would say "wonder" is a combination of amazement and joy, "nostalgia" is a combination of comfort and mild exhilaration, and so on.

On the other hand, there are clearly plenty of emotional states that designers go to great lengths to avoid. Disgust, anger, despair, fear (maybe there's a sprinkling of these here and there for contrast - the dastardly actions of a villain might trigger a moment of disgust, for example, but something like having trash everywhere is pretty much no-no's 101, I assume.)

SWGE may have gone for a rugged sort of vibe but it didn't go far enough to achieve a place of peril. The First Order stuff is not present and over-the-top enough to feel threatening, there's not enough moral decay, seediness, selfishness of the citizenry, or displays of societal mercilessness and desperation to convey a place of peril. It's not a pirate town. It's not Tortuga in space.

And the other way they could have gone is more a place of celebration, a haven for space pirates to gamble and spend galactic credits with abandon. This kind of place would have more illuminated signs, more advertising, more capitalism, so to speak, with buskers and weird street musicians, "nightclubs" and hectic commercial energy.

Either a Tortuga in space, or a New Orleans in space, would have provided guests a better, more relatable analog and an understanding of their relationship/role in the place. Right now it's unclear -- not perilous, not celebratory, definitely not comfortable. And without creatures of all sizes and droids and weird things (a sarlacc pit in the center of town, a Rancor behind a huge gate, a mysterious Jedi training temple?), not wondrous.

Like I said, I have a soft spot for GE and think it's a pretty cool land. I think if the best moments from the Galactic Starcruiser had been incorporated into the land itself, it would have been a total win. A hut where you could see the Yoda hologram? The main restaurant area as a table service restaurant? Even a store on a "spaceship" with the "you're looking into space" windows? Or, as you said, they could go another direction and play up the celebratory aspect. I think it's most of the way there, it just needs maybe a little extra spark or a "hook", especially without the Starcruiser as a sort of unifying narrative

 

[MisterPenguin]

This is not the armchair reimagining of SWL thread.

Construction thread.

Construction taking place.

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

What I can't wrap my head around is the "grand scale only Disney can deliver" rhetoric. If Villains is really going to be this small, that statement is so misleading that it's pretty much a straight-up lie.

Well, I mean, it's not really that small I think is the takeaway.