News Disney CFO Hugh Johnston Says Dynamic Pricing Is Coming to the Parks

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It was still in place last time we sailed on DCL (mid 2022).

Personally, I'd be shocked if anyone being honest had free soda is a deciding factor on what line to book, but as a non-drinker, I like it as drink packages are often a rip off if you aren't getting some booze along the way. It certainly isn't a "perk" worth paying twice the fare up front to save a few dollars on diet coke, but I'm not going to complain about if I am already going DCL for some other reason.

That soda fountain comes with a 40% premium…just saying

 

[Chi84]

That soda fountain comes with a 40% premium…just saying

What’s the comparison of the kids’ clubs though. There’s so much more than just free soda.

It seems there’s a lot more on Disney cruises for kids to do or families to do together.

Sometimes I get the feeling that kids are an afterthought on this site.

 

[MrPromey]

Sometimes I get the feeling that kids are an afterthought on this site.

Which feels weird, right?

It wasn't always like that. I've been here for almost the full 25 years of this site's existence and things didn't start out that way but the demographics of the people talking about Disney around here have changed dramatically.

It's possible some with kids ten or fifteen years ago simply aged out of the group but I suspect (without proof) that Disney has also priced out a lot of the family people who were diehards and talked about saving for years to do each trip.

 

[Tha Realest]

What’s the comparison of the kids’ clubs though. There’s so much more than just free soda.

It seems there’s a lot more on Disney cruises for kids to do or families to do together.

Sometimes I get the feeling that kids are an afterthought on this site.

Two reasons:

1) The message board likely leans heavily towards adult users, and
2) Disney has increasingly directed marketing efforts by and through IG (again, has its age limitations) towards more younger millennials or double income no kid types.

Heck, as to the #2 point, they’ve been focusing heavily on drinking establishments and all the adult oriented activities on the newer cruise ships more than showcasing the kid offerings.

 

[Miss Bella]

Oh I’m talking about the carnival of 10 years ago…when it had fallen into disrepair as a relic of the Kathie Lee Gifford era. It seems they’ve gotten back on track the last 5 or so years?

What Dcl zealots lean on is that it USED to be better than the rest. I agreed with that. 20 years ago? Overall you had a cleaner, more consistent feel.

But since they’ve been caught on most fronts…massive innovating ships from the other lines and better quality level consistency has left dcl feel lacking in come ways.

But people want the “D” so when you suggest maybe it’s not on the perch it once was…fans pitch a fit like veruca salt

Carnival has some really cheap cruises on older ships that seem to bring out the worst type of people. Everyone has seen the fight videos. Carnival does have an image problem.
I think what DCL had that others didn't was families and lots of kids, but that has changed. Cruising is now a family vacation on most cruise lines. When I think premium I think Silver seas, Cunard, Oceania, National Geographic etc.

 

[Miss Bella]

Which feels weird, right?

It wasn't always like that. I've been here for almost the full 25 years of this site's existence and things didn't start out that way but the demographics of the people talking about Disney around here have changed dramatically.

It's possible some with kids ten or fifteen years ago simply aged out of the group but I suspect (without proof) that Disney has also priced out a lot of the family people who were diehards and talked about saving for years to do each trip.

It's the same on all the Disney forums. I've been on Disney forums since mine were middle school age. They are 21, 22 now. I don't see a lot of parents with young kids posting. I remember when it was all young families saving up for trips. That was back when saving up for a trip on a middle class income was possible.

 

[jah4955]

It's the same on all the Disney forums. I've been on Disney forums since mine were middle school age. They are 21, 22 now. I don't see a lot of parents with young kids posting. I remember when it was all young families saving up for trips. That was back when saving up for a trip on a middle class income was possible.

and this is what makes me nervous for the future on many different levels simultaneously.

 

[Miss Bella]

Two reasons:

1) The message board likely leans heavily towards adult users, and
2) Disney has increasingly directed marketing efforts by and through IG (again, has its age limitations) towards more younger millennials or double income no kid types.

Heck, as to the #2 point, they’ve been focusing heavily on drinking establishments and all the adult oriented activities on the newer cruise ships more than showcasing the kid offerings.

I disagree. The are discounting kid tickets and offering free kids dining plans. They know they have an affordability issue for families. You have to get them hooked when they are young or they are not going to care about going when they are older. I don't think Gen z cares that much about Disney as it is.

The new ships are heavily focused on kids as evidenced by the lack of adult pool area space. Its one of the biggest complaints about the new ships. Yes there are some neat bars, but they are scattered in with the family venues. There is no adult only areas like there are on the older ships. The older ships certainly don't lack bars if that's your parameter for adult entertainment.

 

[el_super]

It's the same on all the Disney forums. I've been on Disney forums since mine were middle school age. They are 21, 22 now. I don't see a lot of parents with young kids posting.

That's probably a consequence of Gen Z and Gen Alpha not really using "the web" the same way older gen-x / millennials do. They do most of their research and outreach via social media platforms and AI. Makes sense that a lot of younger families wouldn't be here.

Which of course, heavily tilits the opinions represented here away from reality as a whole.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That's probably a consequence of Gen Z and Gen Alpha not really using "the web" the same way older gen-x / millennials do. They do most of their research and outreach via social media platforms and AI. Makes sense that a lot of younger families wouldn't be here.

Which of course, heavily tilits the opinions represented here away from reality as a whole.

Believing that the company you Chatbot for doesn’t have SIGNIFICANT issues in the here and now…let alone moving forward…is as “skewed from reality” as you can get.

Makes avatar look legit

 

[nickys]

Dumb question ~ are the cash DVC rooms Disney owns considered DVC or not? Or are they just part of a resort's "normal" inventory?

They’re still DVC inventory. Disney don’t own those rooms, they own a percentage of points at every DVC resort. They then use the points to book rooms which they sell to the public.

At a sold-out resort they own 2-3% of the points. At a newer resort they also own any undeclared inventory.

But it’s all DVC inventory, Disney are just an owner like all other owners.

 

[Miss Bella]

That's probably a consequence of Gen Z and Gen Alpha not really using "the web" the same way older gen-x / millennials do. They do most of their research and outreach via social media platforms and AI. Makes sense that a lot of younger families wouldn't be here.

Which of course, heavily tilits the opinions represented here away from reality as a whole.

I use AI, You tube, and reddit for 99.9% of my travel research. I did get a lot of WDW info from forums like this when we started going to WDW....so yeah that makes sense. If I was making my first trip to WDW now I'd be on you tube watching videos.

Planning our Japan trip I don't think there was one thing I couldn't find a You Tube video on. I always tell people on cruise forums to watch you tube videos when trying to pick a ship or a stateroom. It's seems to fall on deaf ears to the older crowd.

 

[nickys]

I use AI, You tube, and reddit for 99.9% of my travel research. I did get a lot of WDW info from forums like this when we started going to WDW....so yeah that makes sense. If I was making my first trip to WDW now I'd be on you tube watching videos.

Planning our Japan trip I don't think there was one thing I couldn't find a You Tube video on. I always tell people on cruise forums to watch you tube videos when trying to pick a ship or a stateroom. It's seems to fall on deaf ears to the older crowd.

I wouldn’t ever rely on AI.

I’ve seen several instances recently where AI had said “you don’t need a visa”. And the would-be traveller didn’t bother to check with a government website. Result = no entry permitted.

And no insurance is going to cover that.

 

[HauntedPirate]

I disagree. The are discounting kid tickets and offering free kids dining plans. They know they have an affordability issue for families. You have to get them hooked when they are young or they are not going to care about going when they are older. I don't think Gen z cares that much about Disney as it is.

The new ships are heavily focused on kids as evidenced by the lack of adult pool area space. Its one of the biggest complaints about the new ships. Yes there are some neat bars, but they are scattered in with the family venues. There is no adult only areas like there are on the older ships. The older ships certainly don't lack bars if that's your parameter for adult entertainment.

Oddly, I'd say the Wish-class is more focused on adults, given the number of bars now, to the detriment of the actual adults-only area. That feels like it was an afterthought in the design process, whereas there seem to more bars than you can shake a stick at.

True story - When we watched the "Making of The Wish" show during our sailing, they said one of the biggest complaints was that adults "couldn't find the bars" on the older four ships.

 

[Chi84]

That's probably a consequence of Gen Z and Gen Alpha not really using "the web" the same way older gen-x / millennials do. They do most of their research and outreach via social media platforms and AI. Makes sense that a lot of younger families wouldn't be here.

Which of course, heavily tilits the opinions represented here away from reality as a whole.

Is that why we’re worried about Disney dying while everyone else is worried about getting in?

 

[KDM31091]

At the risk of sounding like a real dinosaur millennial, I agree. "The web" means something different to us and older generations. It means a desktop computer, forums, reddit, etc. I vastly prefer using my desktop whenever possible. Obviously yes I use my phone and apps, but wouldn't give up my desktop.

Gen Z/Alpha probably don't care about using an actual computer or "surfing the web" or using forums. They just use social media and AI. Reddit is sort of the closest thing and even that seems to be mostly used by the same crowd using forums because forums and Reddit are basically successors to newsgroups from the 90s.

 

[Jrb1979]

At the risk of sounding like a real dinosaur millennial, I agree. "The web" means something different to us and older generations. It means a desktop computer, forums, reddit, etc. I vastly prefer using my desktop whenever possible. Obviously yes I use my phone and apps, but wouldn't give up my desktop.

Gen Z/Alpha probably don't care about using an actual computer or "surfing the web" or using forums. They just use social media and AI. Reddit is sort of the closest thing and even that seems to be mostly used by the same crowd using forums because forums and Reddit are basically successors to newsgroups from the 90s.

Even social media and AI, you don't see many families on there either for planning trips to Disney.

 

[DisneyHead123]

No. I understand marketing (I work in that industry) but at the end of the day, a casual pair of jeans is a casual pair of jeans. If you've fallen for the marketing and think one pair of jeans makes you a kinder joyful person, well... I guess someone earned their paycheck .

The giant "neotenous mouse" is exactly the kind of novelty and kitsch I was referring to. Similar to my example with the Star Wars bar, for someone not specifically into Disney, that's more likely to be seen as tacky than "kindness, creativity, acceptance, joy and wonder".

Likewise, a theater show on a ship about Frozen or Aladdin isn't them being joyous and creative, it's about appealing specifically to Disney fans.

Unless you've already bought into "Disney Magic" as being a real ethereal thing, rather than a method to push expensive cupcakes and plushies, this should be pretty obvious, even if like many, you're willing to suspend disbelief for entertainment and prefer that kind of entertainment. (which I'm in no way saying there is anything wrong with - most of us here lean that way)

To me, a commercial with Tituss Burgess gently crooning "A dream is a wish your heart makes" is a calculated cynical marketing appeal to the sentimental feelings many people have to the Disney brand. It has nothing to do with what you're experience will be on the ship anymore than the brand of the jeans you buy will automatically matter in any meaningful way to the person wearing them if they don't see the label and the quality is good.

I think Carnival cruse commercials look shockingly full of "kindness, creativity, acceptance, joy and wonder"... Like spring break levels of joy and wonder that for my tastes, seems a bit much. They're the ones who treat bath towels like balloon animals, aren't they?

Are they out-Disneying Disney here on the "kindness and acceptance" front?

I think if we are to go solely by their marketing, they sure seem to want to create that impression.

Similarly, I'm sure many a person has been disappointed when boarding a cruise ship hoping to be surrounded by "sleek impossibly thin women" ready to be romanced only to discover that it's statistically more likely... well lets just say, that's not likely to be the actual experience for most people and I think most reasonable adults can suss out as to whether they are that sleek impossibly thin woman having that experience themselves or not, too - probably not, statistically speaking but it may feel good to pretend that's how strangers will see them for five days.

The difference here is one side is marketing to a more mature audience while the other is marketing more to young families and "Disney Adults" - not that one is somehow a less creative and kind experience.

What you're saying in the last couple of posts is you like Disney's marketing and branding more - not, objectively, their cruises. You might like their cruises more, too but that's not what you're talking about.


I thought you were going to delve into what each had to offer that actually made the experiences so different either in service or amenities, crew attitudes, various accommodations, etc., not try to lead me down the path of their various approaches to marketing hokum.

What I’m saying is that companies sell you a proposed vision of sorts, a narrative. And if they’re good at what they do, the narrative featured in the marketing and during the actual experience will match (I haven’t been on a Disney cruise so am thinking more of the parks and what I’ve seen of cruises online.)

Some of that is Disney art, visuals, and shows. These stories feature a world where people are kind and caring and goodness wins in the end. I’m assuming you don’t see such visual cues on a Carnival cruise, although I could be wrong. Some of it is in the fact that being in a playful fantasy world is emphasized over gambling, nightclubs, and drink packages. Some of it is in the character representatives of said world being oh-so-nice to everyone and being kind, welcoming, and so on (90% sure there are no character representatives of the company on Carnival so doesn’t apply to them.) Some of it is in the choices made for architecture, “cute” food, small phrases like the famous “magical day”, group experiences like the pirate parties, and so on. Again, if a company is good at what they do in crafting a given narrative, it will be incorporated throughout.

You can certainly say “Oh that’s just kitsch and tacky”. That speaks to how you personally perceive something. But obviously Imagineers don’t brainstorm how to make something “kitsch and tacky”. Nor do guests get excited to go experience the “kitsch and tacky” on vacation. That’s a pejorative based on a negative evaluation of what the experience looks like. And you’re welcome to your opinion, of course. My point in replying, however, was that I’m trying to tell you what a positive interpretation of the same experience can look like.

To be fair, I’m probably overthinking a long response to what was a simple Disney insult. If you just want to grumble that people pay to much to see that daggone kitschy mouse, have at it.

 

[BrianLo]

I would assume it’s 3 people per DVC room and whatever number of DVC rooms we know they have.

I say 3 people because someone else is retrofitting TEA attendance numbers into room availability, and 2.9 to 3.1 guests per room seems to be the sweet spot.

Great so 4800 declared units * 0.95 occupancy * 3 guests * 365 days = 4.993M attendance clicks / 48.77M annual attendance = 10.2%

More towards 10 since I am using 2024 figures with November 2025 declaration and not all declared units are sold. 10% seems to be the top end.

-Do you think it requires any further adjustment for Disney company sold occupancy? Or is the 95% occupancy purely made of DVC owners.
-Do you think “3 guests” has essentially already taken into account skipped park days by virtue of its surrogate as an attendance estimate?

 

[BrianLo]

They’re still DVC inventory. Disney don’t own those rooms, they own a percentage of points at every DVC resort. They then use the points to book rooms which they sell to the public.

At a sold-out resort they own 2-3% of the points. At a newer resort they also own any undeclared inventory.

But it’s all DVC inventory, Disney are just an owner like all other owners.

Exactly. With the one caveat that I think undeclared units are treated purely within the purview of the cash inventory, I believe?

Disney also experiences a non insignificant amount of breakage and shockingly trading of (low-yield) points by members for their other revenue products like international hotels or cruises.

I think typically the 2% they own legally are to account for loss of inventory during refurbs. They do own above this threshold for most resorts as they typically declare sell out around 95%, so they are often sitting on points they are willing to sell (Grand Cal being the one that is always tight). Most of their rentals of units are ultimately from breakage, points they are sitting on from estates or bankruptcy, member trades or undeclared units.