MK New Beak and Barrel - Pirates of the Caribbean-themed lounge

[Ayla]

I don't think I'm weird but who knows. I believe people need to take responsibility for their own actions and what they teach their children rather than trying to censor ads or stop people from doing what they want as long as it's legal. I don't believe we're such victims.

As far as WDW is concerned, we have great vacations there and I hope it continues to thrive and grow because I would like it to continue.

Things change, though, and if it were to close tomorrow I would find another vacation venue. I've said before that I don't have an emotional connection to the theme park and have a difficult time understanding those who do. People are different.

What an odd take.

If you didn't have an emotional connection, you wouldn't return over and over.

 

[Casper Gutman]

You should have a problem with the pirates ride too then right? It makes pillaging and drinking rum sound like a fun pirate thing!! We better take out the pillaged village before kids start pillaging villages. We also should take out the cannons as they might end up increasing the amount of cannon killings. Stealing and pilfering is bad, better take out pirates all together while we’re at it. Now that you mention it, there’s a few rides that exist where kids might get the wrong message. Definitely should take out Haunted Mansion, hanging person as a “way out” + exploring abandoned properties can be dangerous!!

I don’t know if you noticed, but… Disney has been doing precisely this. They’ve been altering classic rides to remove elements that send socially unacceptable messages. They’ve done it with Splash, Pirates, Jungle Cruise - and on and on and on. Because Disney realizes, counter to the arguments in this thread, that what they do influences people.

Now, I’ve agreed with some of these changes and disagreed with others. The precise line we draw is subjective and open to debate. I don’t think completely sanitizing entertainment, removing any edge, is constructive. However, I’d also argue there is a real difference between representing certain activities and normalizing them by creating spaces that encourage consumers to participate in them. Depicting adults drinking is different in both kind and degree from creating a bar designed to appeal to children and normalizing attendance and consumption in such a venue.

This issue highlights an interesting tension at play in the recent development at WDW. At the same time the resort sands off any rough edges from its attractions, eliminates more adult-oriented wit and satire, and erases any dark humor, they also increasingly build bars and age-restricted thrill rides - infantilizing their audience at the same time they cater more to adults. Their motives for doing this are diverse and complicated, but the net result is to reduce the consumer to a creature of pure sensation, seeking physical thrills without being meaningfully engaged on any more significant level.

 

[BrianLo]

There’s also a real class element at work here - “Children in some lower class dive bar or at some seedy place like Daytona Beach are obviously unacceptable, but it’s not a problem for the better sorts like us at classy cocktail bars or high-priced theme park bars. Surely no one will be vulgar enough to get drunk at EPCOT.”

Indeed. Though originally the goal. To shed the cultural association of seedy American amusement parks and and circuses for the middle class.

Now that they are the definition people think of, we can unhinge to middle-upper class and alcohol.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Just a reminder, there are TWO non-alcoholic drinks on the menu, in a "family-friendly" bar.

This is the epitome of the gaslighting. The presentation of two drinks and a few food options as some sort of wide, main offering. They didn’t even want to take up the space for a soda fountain. Multiple decisions were made to prioritize the ease of selling alcoholic beverages in volume because that is the very clear priority of the space.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Indeed. Though originally the goal. To shed the cultural association of seedy American amusement parks and and circuses for the middle class.

Now that they are the definition people think of, we can unhinge to middle-upper class and alcohol.

Spot on.

Even when we disagree, as we do somewhat on this topic, you’re one of the best posters here.

 

[Ayla]

This is the epitome of the gaslighting. The presentation of two drinks and a few food options as some sort of wide, main offering. They didn’t even want to take up the space for a soda fountain. Multiple decisions were made to prioritize the ease of selling alcoholic beverages in volume because that is the very clear priority of the space.

Agreed. Mocktails have exploded and I can't believe there are only two beverages on the entire menu that are NA. No lemonade? No soda? (Can you get a bottle of soda if you wanted to, instead of a sickly-sweet, syrupy concoction with a minuscule amount of booze in it?) Can you order a bottle of water?

Or are there literally no other options than what is shown on the menu?

 

[Casper Gutman]

Yall are just feeding a concern troll.

Or someone just honestly disagrees with you.

Now, where does calling someone a “troll” fall on the outrage continuum? I’m guessing it’s not nearly as bad as using the forbidden slurs “pixie-duster” or “shill.”

 

[BrianLo]

Spot on.

Even when we disagree, as we do somewhat on this topic, you’re one of the best posters here.

Thank you!

I can proudly own up to being a millennial upper-SINK Disney Adult. Though I don’t pin trade, influence, cosplay nor stick to one brand, I know what I am.

Just to say you can be those things and not have a toxic relationship with the company. I know I am being aggressively, aggressively courted by almost everything the company is doing today. That makes me happy, though not stupid.

This is a childish bar (lounge) made first and foremost for adults.

 

[DisneyHead123]

I don’t know if you noticed, but… Disney has been doing precisely this. They’ve been altering classic rides to remove elements that send socially unacceptable messages. They’ve done it with Splash, Pirates, Jungle Cruise - and on and on and on. Because Disney realizes, counter to the arguments in this thread, that what they do influences people.

Now, I’ve agreed with some of these changes and disagreed with others. The precise line we draw is subjective and open to debate. I don’t think completely sanitizing entertainment, removing any edge, is constructive. However, I’d also argue there is a real difference between representing certain activities and normalizing them by creating spaces that encourage consumers to participate in them. Depicting adults drinking is different in both kind and degree from creating a bar designed to appeal to children and normalizing attendance and consumption in such a venue.

This issue highlights an interesting tension at play in the recent development at WDW. At the same time the resort sands off any rough edges from its attractions, eliminates more adult-oriented wit and satire, and erases any dark humor, they also increasingly build bars and age-restricted thrill rides - infantilizing their audience at the same time they cater more to adults. Their motives for doing this are diverse and complicated, but the net result is to reduce the consumer to a creature of pure sensation, seeking physical thrills without being meaningfully engaged on any more significant level.

I am of the opinion that Disney is more descriptivist than prescriptivist in cultural matters. When push comes to shove, they want to sell you something, not socially engineer society.

That said, as a parent I do find the changing mores of the last decades intriguing. In some ways I think it’s positive - violence in children’s play has decreased a great deal compared to when I was growing up and we chased each other around with cap guns and retractable plastic knives. That kind of play would be considered rather shocking in many parts of the US today (can’t speak for them all). Children’s procedural knowledge seems to me to have increased in a world where everything has, well, a procedure, technology is ubiquitous and even fun games like Minecraft require them to memorize a lot of formulas and crafting table designs.

On the not as positive side, I do agree that, anecdotally, it seems to me that involved narratives seem to be on the decline. Heck, I remember watching Watership Down and The Hobbit as cartoons as a young child, those weren’t exactly super light fare. I can’t really see that in today’s world of the Mario movie and Minions. Again, to my mind the parks are a reflection of that though, not a driver.

Before I end up waaay off topic I’ll conclude by saying this - I do remember when “You have a baby… in a bar!” was considered a hilarious movie line for its absurdity. I do get that things are rather different now and respect that everyone might not like that difference (although personally I’m ok with it - I don’t see a big difference between breweries with playgrounds and wineries with picnic spots and this.)

 

[Chi84]

What an odd take.

If you didn't have an emotional connection, you wouldn't return over and over.

That's not true. It's just a perfect vacation venue for a multi-generational family. I've written about it in other threads but having so much to do in one place - from water parks to signature dining - with transportation included gives everyone an opportunity to do whatever they want without dragging people to something they don't want to do.

We do some things together and others separately and it just works for us. I don't care if it's Splash or Tiana, Tom Sawyer or cars land. (Actually I kind of prefer the cars because no one cared for TSI). We go to WDW and have a blast because we manage to live in the present and not dwell over what was there or what's coming next.

 

[UNCgolf]

This is a childish bar (lounge) made first and foremost for adults.

This is the main thing that stands out to me -- the interior design feels like it's aimed towards kids more than adults, although what it actually offers in terms of beverages is aimed at adults. It's a weird mix.

 

[networkpro]

I don’t know if you noticed, but… Disney has been doing precisely this. They’ve been altering classic rides to remove elements that send socially unacceptable messages. They’ve done it with Splash, Pirates, Jungle Cruise - and on and on and on. Because Disney realizes, counter to the arguments in this thread, that what they do influences people.

Now, I’ve agreed with some of these changes and disagreed with others. The precise line we draw is subjective and open to debate. I don’t think completely sanitizing entertainment, removing any edge, is constructive. However, I’d also argue there is a real difference between representing certain activities and normalizing them by creating spaces that encourage consumers to participate in them. Depicting adults drinking is different in both kind and degree from creating a bar designed to appeal to children and normalizing attendance and consumption in such a venue.

This issue highlights an interesting tension at play in the recent development at WDW. At the same time the resort sands off any rough edges from its attractions, eliminates more adult-oriented wit and satire, and erases any dark humor, they also increasingly build bars and age-restricted thrill rides - infantilizing their audience at the same time they cater more to adults. Their motives for doing this are diverse and complicated, but the net result is to reduce the consumer to a creature of pure sensation, seeking physical thrills without being meaningfully engaged on any more significant level.

They still haven't addressed the 2,000lb gorilla in thier theming, the whole feudalisim deal behind all these princesses.

I'll Be grabbing my Disney branded fentanyl tomorrow in the Magic Kingdom and I'll be looking out for those wanton wenches in gambling dens you're warning us about. Cheers!

 

[Casper Gutman]

They still haven't addressed the 2,000lb gorilla in thier theming, the whole feudalisim deal behind all these princesses.

I'll Be grabbing my Disney branded fentanyl tomorrow in the Magic Kingdom and I'll be looking out for those wanton wenches in gambling dens you're warning us about. Cheers!

A lot of posters who want to drink at a bar in a theme park think they’re better than people who gamble. What a weird reaction.

 

[networkpro]

A lot of posters who want to drink at a bar in a theme park think they’re better than people who gamble. What a weird reaction.

And others speak of moral turpitude as if everyone had no free will.

 

[Casper Gutman]

And others speak of moral turpitude as if everyone had no free will.

No, no - only DISNEY doesn’t have free will. They can only respond to wider changes and the consequences of their actions are never intended . Guests, on the other hand, are completely unaffected by any outside influence. Cultural forces annd ands are meaningless. Children in particular are famously not impressionable at all.

Actually, though I don’t think you mean it to be, constantly insisting children have total “free will,” are solely responsible for their own actions, and no one should be criticized for trying to influence them is really, really creepy.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

A lot of posters who want to drink at a bar in a theme park think they’re better than people who gamble. What a weird reaction.

Just would like to point out that picking up 1 drink in a highly themed location is not similar at all to someone gambling away their life savings which is whatever.

If Disney sold lotto tickets however, I would not really care…

I feel like people forget that casinos are infamous for causing deaths in the location of because there isn’t much of a hard limit imposed. They attract a lot of people who are either not in the best shape health wise or… go too far and there’s some horrible horrible side effects for. Bars typically do have a hard limit and the main “risk” of drinking (driving) is essentially completely handled by Disneys free transportation and limiting how many drinks someone can purchase at once. Neither of those would realistically happen in a casino.

 

[Chi84]

Just would like to point out that picking up 1 drink in a highly themed location is not similar at all to someone gambling away their life savings which is whatever.

If Disney sold lotto tickets however, I would not really care…

I feel like people forget that casinos are infamous for causing deaths in the location of because there isn’t much of a hard limit imposed. They attract a lot of people who are either not in the best shape health wise or… go too far and there’s some horrible horrible side effects for. Bars typically do have a hard limit and the main “risk” of drinking (driving) is essentially completely handled by Disneys free transportation and limiting how many drinks someone can purchase at once. Neither of those would realistically happen in a casino.

The other thing is that no one said that they think people who drink in a theme park are better than people who gamble. Nor did anyone say children have totally free will and are solely responsible for their own actions.

I can only conclude from the lack of foundation for these statements (and utter silliness of the second one) that we are being trolled. I agree with @JD80 that it's not productive to continue.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

No, no - only DISNEY doesn’t have free will. They can only respond to wider changes and the consequences of their actions are never intended . Guests, on the other hand, are completely unaffected by any outside influence. Cultural forces annd ands are meaningless. Children in particular are famously not impressionable at all.

Actually, though I don’t think you mean it to be, constantly insisting children have total “free will,” are solely responsible for their own actions, and no one should be criticized for trying to influence them is really, really creepy.

In order to better allow kids to enjoy the parks I’ve come up with a list of rides that should be removed due to high risk or illegal practices:

Big Thunder Mountain
Pirates of the Carribean
Flying Carpets with Aladdin
Jungle Cruise
Dumbo
Haunted Mansion
Piston Peak
Peter Pans Flight
Goofys Barnstormer
Under the Sea
Space Mountain
Tron
Space Ranger Spin
Tomorrowland Speedway
Test Track
Cosmic Rewind
Nemo
Frozen Ever After
Mission Space
Soaring
Tower of Terror
RNRC
Smugglers Run
Rise
Runaway Railway
Expedition Everest
Kilimanjaro Safari
Flight of Passage
Kali River Rapids

Thank you for making a point to save the children

 

[Casper Gutman]

In order to better allow kids to enjoy the parks I’ve come up with a list of rides that should be removed due to high risk or illegal practices:

Big Thunder Mountain
Pirates of the Carribean
Flying Carpets with Aladdin
Jungle Cruise
Dumbo
Haunted Mansion
Piston Peak
Peter Pans Flight
Goofys Barnstormer
Under the Sea
Space Mountain
Tron
Space Ranger Spin
Tomorrowland Speedway
Test Track
Cosmic Rewind
Nemo
Frozen Ever After
Mission Space
Soaring
Tower of Terror
RNRC
Smugglers Run
Rise
Runaway Railway
Expedition Everest
Kilimanjaro Safari
Flight of Passage
Kali River Rapids

Thank you for making a point to save the children

Thank you for demonstrating you haven’t read the thread.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

The other thing is that no one said that they think people who drink in a theme park are better than people who gamble. Nor did anyone say children have totally free will and are solely responsible for their own actions.

I can only conclude from the lack of foundation for these statements (and utter silliness of the second one) that we are being trolled. I agree with @JD80 that it's not productive to continue.

Oh 100%. I have no problem with people gambling. I have a problem with people who gamble their entire life savings away and screw over their family Just like I have a problem with people who get blackout drunk every day and force their families to care for them. When you affect others, I do have a problem. Same if someone spent all of their money on trips to Disney and can’t afford food for their kids anymore. None of these are “better than the other”. But you’re right, this convo is going nowhere as it’s built on a disingenuous foundation. That’s not the reason people are mad at this lounge