MK Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

flynnibus

Premium Member
Ugh, you are describing everything I don't like about WDW these days. Give me a few relaxing days in Disneyland Paris over this any time!
I know.. while some people praise it, it kills all spontaneity IMO and isn't something I want to do full time on a vacation. And why I prefer the cruise ships much more than the parks in the last 10+ years. They get it you're supposed to be relaxing and being pampered. The parks.. not so much.

As people are saying, life often doesn't work the way Disney is setting up their system to suggest it should and I personally don't think this justifies getting rid of more relaxed experiences. Still, this planning of everything months in advance that began to creep in with FastPass+ is a plague on the parks.

I dispise things like the removal of benches in the parks.. the ability to sit down and just enjoy the surroundings. But I don't fool myself into thinking TSI's under utilization was just 'because it was a relaxing experience'. People didn't use it.. even die hard fans. They just wanted the satisfaction knowing it was there... vs actually using it.
 

FerretAfros

Well-Known Member
But kids don't make your schedule, set your reservations, or feel the burden of paying for the trip. Disney has built this model that conditions you not to eat when you are hungry.. but to decide months in advance at 1:30 you will eat at this spot.. You don't decide "lets ride space mountain!" someone already decided at 4:20, you are supposed to ride space mountain. That time inbetween? You can adlib.. but you know you have a commitment.. so if you were to head to TSI for instance, the exploration is going to be cut off. Now instead of playing a game, a parent rushes their kid through each portion to 'finish' before their time runs out.

The dad doesn't want to spend $500 for the day to watch their kid play with a rock... just like people who end up watching their kid enjoy the hotel pool instead of wanting to go do all the other stuff they've already paid for.

And I don't care what you think kids need or not - we're talking about what Disney has setup. You can try to ignore most of Disney's model, but you're going to be getting a vastly inferior experience while paying the same amount. People aren't going to do that in the long run.

Disney's model shapes and influences consumer behavior. From the marketing, to the structure, to the constraints.
But what you're describing means the parks need more experiences like TSI, rather than fewer. With so many parts of a theme park day being pre-scheduled now (attractions, entertainment, dining, etc.), downtime between appointments in inevitable, so they need ways to fill those odd amounts of time.

However given the configuration of the parks, it's exceedingly difficult to find a rewarding way to kill 20-30 minutes while waiting for your next appointment time. Even minor attractions and character meet & greets routinely post waits in excess of 30-45 minutes across WDW, and that doesn't account for the time to actually experience the attraction itself. If you're trying to fill in the gaps, there's really not much to choose from.

Playgrounds and free-roaming areas like TSI, Innoventions, and countless post-show areas that have been whittled away over the years are the perfect solution that problem, as they're able to absorb guests with typically no wait and provide a worthwhile experience, regardless of whether a guest spends 10 minutes there or an hour. Yes, the rafts made the logistics of TSI more difficult than a standard playground, but in a typical afternoon guests could still take the raft over, explore the island for a while, and take the raft back faster than they could wait in line and experience nearly anything in the park. Similarly, the animal trails and Journey of Water are saddled with their linear layouts making it difficult for guests to tailor the duration to their needs, but they're still quicker to experience than other nearby attractions.

Disney themselves acknowledged this would be a problem during the development of MyMagic+, and added several lounge spaces (before "lounge" was Disneyspeak for "bar") to the parks as part of its rollout, with places to sit and recharge phones. Most of them were far from busy areas, poorly advertised, and offered nothing of interest, so they were seldom busy. Instead guests piled up in the crowded walkways and near their next appointment destination, making congestion worse in the parks. Few of the lounges remain in the parks today (notably, the woodsy seating area between the Tangled Toilets and the main walkway), since shockingly not many people wanted to pay theme park admission to sit and watch their phone charge.

Not everything on a park's menu needs to be a main course or a dessert: there's room for palate cleansers, amuse bouches, and lagniappes to round out the overall experience. They may not be the reason that someone comes in the first place, but they're the small things that make the whole day feel special and encourage you to return in the future.

Instead of having minimal-wait varying-duration diversions to fill the gaps, or even dull lounges to kill time, the parks are increasingly left with nothing. If the wait is short enough, you could always grab a snack to eat while standing over a trash can; you probably won't enjoy your day as much and won't be as likely to want to return in the future as if you had spent that time enjoying a minor attraction, but at least Disney gets a couple extra bucks from you today!
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I think the ADA element is part of it and also just safety requirement sand style of playgrounds has changed a ton I've the years. If you see a newer playground built in your town it will look a ton different than one built 30 years ago
My wife was responsible for managing our community playgrounds for many years - so I have a pretty good exposure to the concerns faced. The pendulum swung wayyy too far in the correction.. but in recent years I've seen a return to more ambitious play apparatus. For years we saw public venues basically go to completely static 'climb on this' thing. Such a shame.

At Disney there is such a opportunity for amazing play structures/parks.. but is something they've largely avoided. It's a shame.. kids love the stuff when done well. I think they are more interesting than another flat spinner... but just MHO.
 

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
I know.. while some people praise it, it kills all spontaneity IMO and isn't something I want to do full time on a vacation. And why I prefer the cruise ships much more than the parks in the last 10+ years. They get it you're supposed to be relaxing and being pampered. The parks.. not so much.
This is part of why I was kind of annoyed that they went back to pre-booking with Lightning Lane. Without pre-booking, you could almost cobble together something that felt slightly more like a spontaneous day. You could make day-of decisions to buy or not to buy based on known factors rather than uncertain predictions, and you could actually do unique things like stack for the afternoon while watching the kids play in the pool without feeling like you were missing much of anything because of the regular drops throughout the day. Now, you just have displaced pre-arrival disappointment and the knowledge that everything worthwhile will be sold out before noon, if not earlier.
But what you're describing means the parks need more experiences like TSI, rather than fewer. With so many parts of a theme park day being pre-scheduled now (attractions, entertainment, dining, etc.), downtime between appointments in inevitable, so they need ways to fill those odd amounts of time.
But based on your description, they would also need to be flexibly accessible, which TSI is not.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
I know.. while some people praise it, it kills all spontaneity IMO and isn't something I want to do full time on a vacation. And why I prefer the cruise ships much more than the parks in the last 10+ years. They get it you're supposed to be relaxing and being pampered. The parks.. not so much.



I dispise things like the removal of benches in the parks.. the ability to sit down and just enjoy the surroundings. But I don't fool myself into thinking TSI's under utilization was just 'because it was a relaxing experience'. People didn't use it.. even die hard fans. They just wanted the satisfaction knowing it was there... vs actually using it.

For me the underutilization of TSI is a moot point as the the island in conjunction with the river anchored that area of the park. Everything in that area was designed around the river/island. I understand it’s the most visited park in the world and they need more capacity but Disney, the leader and pioneer in themed entertainment bastardizing the best area of the park is sad to see.

So at the end of the day how much more capacity will the Cars ride have over TSI and the Liberty Belle really? And is that worth the trade off? They absolutely should have found a way to leave the lower loop in tact at the very least. I dont buy the excuse that it needed to go for Villains Land.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
But what you're describing means the parks need more experiences like TSI, rather than fewer.
No, what I'm discribing is the consequences of people having time commitments vs being able to freely adapt to what is happening around them. Your suggestion is just trying to make the bad system somehow more tolerable. But it's fundamentally flawed in that the root problem is deadlines.. not the range of things to do while trying to keep busy, but not miss your deadline.

With so many parts of a theme park day being pre-scheduled now (attractions, entertainment, dining, etc.), downtime between appointments in inevitable, so they need ways to fill those odd amounts of time.
Or... stop trying to pre-schedule everything.

However given the configuration of the parks, it's exceedingly difficult to find a rewarding way to kill 20-30 minutes while waiting for your next appointment time.
See the recurring theme here? the problem is trying to work around a schedule instead of working with the surroundings.

Disney themselves acknowledged this would be a problem during the development of MyMagic+, and added several lounge spaces (before "lounge" was Disneyspeak for "bar") to the parks as part of its rollout, with places to sit and recharge phones. Most of them were far from busy areas, poorly advertised, and offered nothing of interest, so they were seldom busy. Instead guests piled up in the crowded walkways and near their next appointment destination, making congestion worse in the parks.
Nah - Disney was adding these lounges as trying to create some sort of value and perks. The AP lounges, the Chase ones, the experiments with paid lounges, etc. The build out of areas like near rapunzel where you could charge was them dealing with the practicalities of people needing to charge their devices in a world where there is usually no public power outlets. They created a problem putting everyone on their phones and needed a way to make using a phone all day practical. Wasn't about schedule filling.. it was about phone life.
 

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
I dont buy the excuse that it needed to go for Villains Land.
Pretty sure that's not an excuse that Disney has ever mentioned, so I'm not sure why you feel you're being sold that idea. Preserving it was obviously possible, though likely more expensive. They already did it at Disneyland, after all. They just chose to do something different in WDW, likely for a variety of reasons that won't do anything to change opinions anyway.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Pretty sure that's not an excuse that Disney has ever mentioned, so I'm not sure why you feel you're being sold that idea. Preserving it was obviously possible, though likely more expensive. They already did it at Disneyland, after all. They just chose to do something different in WDW, likely for a variety of reasons that won't do anything to change opinions anyway.

People here have said that. Not Disney.
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
However given the configuration of the parks, it's exceedingly difficult to find a rewarding way to kill 20-30 minutes while waiting for your next appointment time. Even minor attractions and character meet & greets routinely post waits in excess of 30-45 minutes across WDW, and that doesn't account for the time to actually experience the attraction itself. If you're trying to fill in the gaps, there's really not much to choose from.

Playgrounds and free-roaming areas like TSI, Innoventions, and countless post-show areas that have been whittled away over the years are the perfect solution that problem, as they're able to absorb guests with typically no wait and provide a worthwhile experience, regardless of whether a guest spends 10 minutes there or an hour.

My guess is that this is an outcome of incentive structures. I don’t think Disney specifically planned it this way, but if you need a readily available, non time constrained experience that also generates revenue, the obvious answer is stores. I would be curious if there’s been a rise in the number of stores as other types of experiences have decreased.
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
I dispise things like the removal of benches in the parks.. the ability to sit down and just enjoy the surroundings. But I don't fool myself into thinking TSI's under utilization was just 'because it was a relaxing experience'. People didn't use it.. even die hard fans. They just wanted the satisfaction knowing it was there... vs actually using it.
One of my favourite little touches in Disneyland Paris is a random 'rock' in a clearing beside the path next to the river in Adventureland that has been designed so most people would miss it, but you can just sit for a little bit as if in a clearing in the jungle if you spot it and are in the mood.

As for TSI, I would honestly not fight to keep it the way it was when it closed, including the theme. It seems a little tabu around here to suggest changing tastes can be a reason for replacing or updating an attraction, but I can accept that even if I personally don't like the change. At Disneyland, for example, it long ago was re-themed to pirates. What I am more annoyed about is the complete elimination of the Rivers of America and adding insult to that injury by replacing it with Cars.

I will also say that MK's Rivers of America was the most neglected of those that still exist. It is one of those things that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy as when you let everything become dirty and rundown as of course guests start to find it hokey.
 

Agent H

Well-Known Member
They are still a shadow of themselves in terms of how many there were.. usually taken out without any 1:1 replacement too. I don't know the strategy they are taking, but they seem far less common. Part of it could be ADA concerns too which took a bit bite out of many climbing/play areas in other venues.

Regardless, even with it there, people weren't using TSI enough.
I think people need to be treating the river as an attraction in its own right. It was a major part of the presentation of Frontierland and liberty square and was experienced by everyone. That is the biggest thing we’re losing. The look and feel of the area as it existed. This is the biggest change to the magic kingdom they have ever made and most likely ever will make.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I think people need to be treating the river as an attraction in its own right. It was a major part of the presentation of Frontierland and liberty square and was experienced by everyone. That is the biggest thing we’re losing. The look and feel of the area as it existed
I have no problem with that argument - but I'd call it more like a setting/placemaker rather than attraction. To me it's like the flower beds and meadows in former future world.. or other popular setting pieces.

The question just becomes "will the replacement deliver better on that need?" -- I don't know. I do know even when you have something cool, like the 20k lagoon... it sucks to sit and watch something lay dormant though. So I still prefer a reimagining of the park over leaving something there for background.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
It seems a little tabu around here to suggest changing tastes can be a reason for replacing or updating an attraction, but I can accept that even if I personally don't like the change.
Updates can take getting used to, but are usually for the best compared to letting an attraction feel overly dated.

Complete replacements of classics are really difficult. Movie Ride, Muppets, Backlot tour, Osbourne Lights, and Rivers of America with Riverboat are really tough. Same with the dinosaurs of universe of energy - the rest of the attraction was indeed showing it’s age but the Dino’s could have been saved somehow.
 

JD80

Well-Known Member
However given the configuration of the parks, it's exceedingly difficult to find a rewarding way to kill 20-30 minutes while waiting for your next appointment time. Even minor attractions and character meet & greets routinely post waits in excess of 30-45 minutes across WDW, and that doesn't account for the time to actually experience the attraction itself. If you're trying to fill in the gaps, there's really not much to choose from.

Not to ignore the rest of your post but there are a good amount of attractions with lower wait times across property.

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