MK Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[jah4955]

Keep in mind that for Disneyland specifically, it was the only park there for 45 years. Eventually, they would run out of serious room for expansion, even after alerting the RR many times (even in Walt's life) to make space.

The Magic Kingdom does not, and was built to not, have such constraints. Since 1980 however, the park has only had occasional changes to its footprint or real expansions (Splash, New Fantasyland and TRON). Significant replacements and changes in MK did not begin until the 90s, and a lot of that was fueled by the same business philosophy that at the same time closed all the unique stores. Sure the are reasons why something may be replaced vs real expansion, but for 45 years, Disney has been reluctant to use any space in its most popular park that wasn't previously occupied before. Cars and Villains continues this trend.

Remember, 20,000 Leagues sat idle for a decade before it was demolished for possible (not immediate) replacement

Great points. By the time they announced "New Fantasyland" they were able to spin the long-vacant 20K land as, "the largest expansion in MK history," instead of what it essentially was: a replacement of (by 1971 standards at least) 1 E-ticket attraction that closed almost-exactly 20 years earlier (when you consider its last piece, 7DMT, opened 2014). Didn't they make the same claim, again, with Cars/Vilians ("largest expansion in history")? I'm curious if the final result is going to be more than the outline of RofA? Yes, I'm still stewing that they previously said, "beyond" BTM when nothing actually seems like it will be "beyond." But, there's time.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I mean…. It’s not quite as simple as that. There was a legit crowd flow issue - but there were ways to fix it without completely destroying the rivers (like the Disneyland method)

Disney did not want to deal with the expense a difficulty with trying to save RoA plus (just my speculation) they want to erase these old themes and replace them with newer IP.. This is not Walt’s company for a long time now, it’s Iger’s company now.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Great points. By the time they announced "New Fantasyland" they were able to spin the long-vacant 20K land as, "the largest expansion in MK history," instead of what it essentially was: a replacement of (by 1971 standards at least) 1 E-ticket attraction that closed almost-exactly 20 years earlier (when you consider its last piece, 7DMT, opened 2014). Didn't they make the same claim, again, with Cars/Vilians ("largest expansion in history")? I'm curious if the final result is going to be more than the outline of RofA? Yes, I'm still stewing that they previously said, "beyond" BTM when nothing actually seems like it will be "beyond." But, there's time.

Not expecting it to go beyond the berm but I would be surprised if Villains Land doesn't stretch into the open area to the east of the top of the River

So I guess more "Beyond the Haunted Mansion and It's a Small World Show Buildings" than "Beyond Big Thunder" - but guess we shall see

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

I can be your source. I was at a party and I spoke to one of the imagineers working on the project. After I asked about his Tiana jacket, he gleefully explained to myself and two others how excited they were to shred the costumes and/or skins for the old animatronics (can’t remember specifically) and that the company as a whole was eager to “move past that ugly part of their history” referring to Splash Mountain.

That anecdotal experience along with a few other stories I’ve been told about how Disney leadership and decision makers treated the closure of Splash tell me all I need to know about how things go at current Disney.

They have contempt for their own history and the people who love it.

I feel like this can easily be misconstrued. While I don’t love to keep bringing up the corpse of Splash Mountain, I do think that SotS’s theme was truly an ugly part of the history. People do gloss over that it was always somewhat controversial to some people and I feel like it’s a bit of a revisionist history to pretend like every one has to be sad by its closure. I will say upfront that as a Black man myself, I loved the design and overall ride of Splash Mountain but it’s root in story do make me feel uncomfortable. I would not blame anyone for feeling similar, no matter their position in the company.

 

[KDM31091]

Great points. By the time they announced "New Fantasyland" they were able to spin the long-vacant 20K land as, "the largest expansion in MK history," instead of what it essentially was: a replacement of (by 1971 standards at least) 1 E-ticket attraction that closed almost-exactly 20 years earlier (when you consider its last piece, 7DMT, opened 2014). Didn't they make the same claim, again, with Cars/Vilians ("largest expansion in history")? I'm curious if the final result is going to be more than the outline of RofA? Yes, I'm still stewing that they previously said, "beyond" BTM when nothing actually seems like it will be "beyond." But, there's time.

This exactly. 20K was technically replaced by 7DMT, so really we only gained Ariel but at the same time lost the Snow White darkride for a M&G so that's a wash too. Mickey and Minnie's houses, even if you want to lump them together as one thing, weren't replaced with a new attraction. Donald's Boat was somewhat replaced by the Casey Jr splash area, so we can call that a wash. The Skyway was never replaced by any actual attraction on either station site; bathrooms are not a real replacement. There are so many two steps forward one step back that happen, that the park never really gains. DL has many more attractions than MK in a smaller space. And yet almost any time we gain at MK we are forced to give up at least one thing when that shouldn't be the case. I take issue with them hyping it up as an "expansion" when 2 Cars attractions are being gained where 2 attractions were lost.

If Villains is truly on previously unused land, sure, that's an expansion, but we aren't looking at that being reality until at least 2030 IMO and that's being generous. DinoRama closed 8 months ago and is still nothing more than a dirt flatland. They're in seemingly no hurry for anything other than DVC towers.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I would also count New Tomorrowland in 1967 as, whilst it opened after Walt's death, Walt still approved it and oversaw the closures of things like the Astro Jets (1964), 20,000 Leagues Exhibit (1966), Flying Saucers (1966) and House of the Future, replaced by Rocket Jets, Adventures Thru Inner Space, Carousel of Progress and Alpine Gardens

But ultimately Tomorrowland expanded - it didn’t get replaced.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

This exactly. 20K was technically replaced by 7DMT, so really we only gained Ariel but at the same time lost the Snow White darkride for a M&G so that's a wash too. Mickey and Minnie's houses, even if you want to lump them together as one thing, weren't replaced with a new attraction. Donald's Boat was somewhat replaced by the Casey Jr splash area, so we can call that a wash. The Skyway was never replaced by any actual attraction on either station site; bathrooms are not a real replacement. There are so many two steps forward one step back that happen, that the park never really gains. DL has many more attractions than MK in a smaller space. And yet almost any time we gain at MK we are forced to give up at least one thing when that shouldn't be the case. I take issue with them hyping it up as an "expansion" when 2 Cars attractions are being gained where 2 attractions were lost.

If Villains is truly on previously unused land, sure, that's an expansion, but we aren't looking at that being reality until at least 2030 IMO and that's being generous. DinoRama closed 8 months ago and is still nothing more than a dirt flatland. They're in seemingly no hurry for anything other than DVC towers.

we also got Enchanted Tales with Belle which is a really cool experience, especially with young kids

 

[jah4955]

This exactly. 20K was technically replaced by 7DMT, so really we only gained Ariel but at the same time lost the Snow White darkride for a M&G so that's a wash too. Mickey and Minnie's houses, even if you want to lump them together as one thing, weren't replaced with a new attraction. Donald's Boat was somewhat replaced by the Casey Jr splash area, so we can call that a wash. The Skyway was never replaced by any actual attraction on either station site; bathrooms are not a real replacement. There are so many two steps forward one step back that happen, that the park never really gains. DL has many more attractions than MK in a smaller space. And yet almost any time we gain at MK we are forced to give up at least one thing when that shouldn't be the case. I take issue with them hyping it up as an "expansion" when 2 Cars attractions are being gained where 2 attractions were lost.

If Villains is truly on previously unused land, sure, that's an expansion, but we aren't looking at that being reality until at least 2030 IMO and that's being generous. DinoRama closed 8 months ago and is still nothing more than a dirt flatland. They're in seemingly no hurry for anything other than DVC towers.

More great points. For the last few years my best friend's been an Florida AP holder, going several times a year. Last year he made his first visit to Disneyland Park (he didn't go to CA), and although he initially observed that it was smaller in size than Florida's, throughout the day (at least a dozen different times) he'd excitedly call or text me over his "discoveries" of many additional attractions that are not also offered in Florida (or at least not offered any more).

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

More great points. For the last few years my best friend's been a Florida AP holder, going several times a year. Last year he made his first visit to Disneyland Park (he didn't go to CA), and although he initially observed that it was smaller in size than Florida's, throughout the day (at least a dozen different times) he'd excitedly call or text me over his "discoveries" of many additional attractions that are not also offered in Florida (or at least not offered any more).

I feel like there’s a problem where anything that’s not an E ticket is seen as a waste. I’m want a new multilayered attraction in MK if possible to use up some space

 

[Chi84]

I can be your source. I was at a party and I spoke to one of the imagineers working on the project. After I asked about his Tiana jacket, he gleefully explained to myself and two others how excited they were to shred the costumes and/or skins for the old animatronics (can’t remember specifically) and that the company as a whole was eager to “move past that ugly part of their history” referring to Splash Mountain.

That anecdotal experience along with a few other stories I’ve been told about how Disney leadership and decision makers treated the closure of Splash tell me all I need to know about how things go at current Disney.

They have contempt for their own history and the people who love it.

With respect, that is you repeating something that someone else told you about what someone else did and what the company was thinking.

That’s not something I’m going to accept as accurate without having talked to the people involved and there’s no way to do that.

For all you know, other imagineers may have been sad and could have spoken to different people at the company.

You clearly have a strong opinion that has been expressed often - even in threads that have nothing to do with Splash.

You can report anecdotal accounts but that isn’t what I meant when I asked for a source.

 

[jah4955]

This exactly. 20K was technically replaced by 7DMT, so really we only gained Ariel but at the same time lost the Snow White darkride for a M&G so that's a wash too. Mickey and Minnie's houses, even if you want to lump them together as one thing, weren't replaced with a new attraction. Donald's Boat was somewhat replaced by the Casey Jr splash area, so we can call that a wash. The Skyway was never replaced by any actual attraction on either station site; bathrooms are not a real replacement. There are so many two steps forward one step back that happen, that the park never really gains. DL has many more attractions than MK in a smaller space. And yet almost any time we gain at MK we are forced to give up at least one thing when that shouldn't be the case. I take issue with them hyping it up as an "expansion" when 2 Cars attractions are being gained where 2 attractions were lost.

If Villains is truly on previously unused land, sure, that's an expansion, but we aren't looking at that being reality until at least 2030 IMO and that's being generous. DinoRama closed 8 months ago and is still nothing more than a dirt flatland. They're in seemingly no hurry for anything other than DVC towers.

The old back wall of the 20K show building is the current back wall to Little Mermaid show building. I was told as a kid (at least for residentials) that strategy technically makes the construction project a "refurb" vs. full demo/replacement--much less expensive with permitting, etc. supposedly.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

With respect, that is you repeating something that someone else told you about what someone else did and what the company was thinking.

That’s not something I’m going to accept as accurate without having talked to the people involved and there’s no way to do that.

For all you know, other imagineers may have been sad and could have spoken to different people at the company.

You clearly have a strong opinion that has been expressed often - even in threads that have nothing to do with Splash.

You can report anecdotal accounts but that isn’t what I meant when I asked for a source.

100%. I would trust this about the same as I trust Inside the Magic

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

we also got Enchanted Tales with Belle which is a really cool experience, especially with young kids

To be fair…. It’s one of the few attractions I feel odd experiencing as a “Disney adult” - I really like the effects and technology but I feel out of place in the actual show.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

To be fair…. It’s one of the few attractions I feel odd experiencing as a “Disney adult” - I really like the effects and technology but I feel out of place in the actual show.

understandable, especially the actual part with Belle, but it still counts as an attraction built as part of the New Fantasyland work

 

[Sir_Cliff]

To be fair…. It’s one of the few attractions I feel odd experiencing as a “Disney adult” - I really like the effects and technology but I feel out of place in the actual show.

Maybe if you hop high enough you will be assigned the part you really want to act out by the wardrobe/CM and it will be a completely different experience? If at first you don't succeed...

 

[MisterPenguin]

Disney did not want to deal with the expense a difficulty with trying to save RoA plus (just my speculation) they want to erase these old themes and replace them with newer IP.

Dude, where's your "seeing the worse" mentality? Because, that would be correct. It's not about dumping the old because it's old, but all about putting in something new and more profitable.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Dude, where's your "seeing the worse" mentality? Because, that would be correct. It's not about dumping the old because it's old, but all about putting in something new and more profitable.

I cant argue with that. Today's Disney theme parks are about profitability.

 

[flyerjab]

This Cars discussion is absolutely captivating.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

How big was 20k in total, cause they fit a lot in that space, is it comparable to the space where cars is going?

Rivers of America was bigger, as seen in this photo. They have more space to work with, which makes sense given that RoA was built for several boats and the island, vs 20K which was just one ride

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Now that both 20K and the RoA have been removed, it's even more surprising in hindsight that Jungle Cruise is still around.

Many of the justifications used to scrap those could be applied to that ride too...popular, sentimental favorite it may be.

Do they scrap it before using the Adventureland expansion pad?