Vegas Disney Fan
Well-Known Member
Baxter would be #1 on my list, it gets harder after that… my mountain would probably end up with 7-8 heads on it. If I HAD to choose 4 I’d likely go with X, Gurr, Baxter, and Rhodes.
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What is the Mount Rushmore of Imagineers?
- Thread starter mickEblu
- Start date
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
Bob Gurr designed so many things that had never been done before.
I saw him at an event around the time Disneyland's new monorails couldn't even run mid-afternoon due to heat and lack of air flow.
Bob Gurr designed the original monorail which had no such issues. Someone asked him why Disney didn't consult on the new design. Great question.
He designed things like doom buggies. Who among us could come up with something so unusual? Now, they're iconic.
If he's not on the list what are we even doing?
I saw him at an event around the time Disneyland's new monorails couldn't even run mid-afternoon due to heat and lack of air flow.
Bob Gurr designed the original monorail which had no such issues. Someone asked him why Disney didn't consult on the new design. Great question.
He designed things like doom buggies. Who among us could come up with something so unusual? Now, they're iconic.
If he's not on the list what are we even doing?
I think he might be a tad under appreciated right now simply for the fact that he is alive as well as the fact that he is super accessible. Granted should have nothing to do with this exercise but I think it does factor in.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Bob was a 'make it happen' guy.. while essential, I don't think he sets the tone of what made people love Disney.
People like Ryman, X, etc really set the environment, look, and feel that people fell for. Those types, along with Hench, etc basically setup the table. I find it hard to stack people like Hench vs someone like X or Marc Davis.. so the conversation gets difficult when you try to pick one vs the other.
But I would focus on the architects of the type of environments and entertainment - so I'm less inclined for people like Mary Blair, Rolly, Gurr, etc.
People like Baxter, Rhode, etc.. sorry, but you're second generation. You were studied under these men, and while your individual work may be pinnacle achievements, you are still following the path laid out by the trend setters before you. But I'd still put Baxter up as a show producer for the total product over Rhode.
People like Ryman, X, etc really set the environment, look, and feel that people fell for. Those types, along with Hench, etc basically setup the table. I find it hard to stack people like Hench vs someone like X or Marc Davis.. so the conversation gets difficult when you try to pick one vs the other.
But I would focus on the architects of the type of environments and entertainment - so I'm less inclined for people like Mary Blair, Rolly, Gurr, etc.
People like Baxter, Rhode, etc.. sorry, but you're second generation. You were studied under these men, and while your individual work may be pinnacle achievements, you are still following the path laid out by the trend setters before you. But I'd still put Baxter up as a show producer for the total product over Rhode.
Baxter stands out amongst the second generation and I feel is equal to the first purely because of the amount and consistent quality he produced. Big Thunder, Splash, Imagination, Indy, and of course his crowning achievement Parc Disneyland (Joe is great, but AK has nothing on DLP) he was the total package.
I was with you until the last paragraph. I don’t dock Baxter any points for being second generation. His body of work is more impressive to me than any other imagineer.
For my top 4 I threw in more of sentimental, nostalgic choice based off what the parks mean to me personally with X but I do think there is an argument to be made there. What would Disneyland be without POTC and Mansion and would what those attractions be without X? How did those two attractions shape the future of Disney parks in general?
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
I agree
I think Baxter solved more challenges/balanced production over whim far more effectively and that is what’s missing when WDI gets bogged down or out of control.
It’ll be interesting to see how the perception of Tony Baxter changes with future generations. Unlike POTC and Mansion which have stood the test of time, many of Tony’s works have been butchered and/or might not be around for much longer. Splash Mountain is gone for all intents and purposes. Figment has been ruined. The future of Star Tours is uncertain. Indy should stick around even if the story gets tweaked. How long can BTMRR go without getting IP’d? In the end maybe DLP will really be the legacy project that resonates with fans for generations to come.
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
Baxter can get the nod on Indy alone.
One of a handful of attractions where your jaw just drops.
To take the dark ride concept from minor attractions and implement it on that scale, was and is astonishing.
I'm a little cynical about some of his other stuff. Big Thunder looks pretty but is honestly a bad coaster. Every time you start to move it feels like you hit another lift hill. It's just oddly paced.
One of a handful of attractions where your jaw just drops.
To take the dark ride concept from minor attractions and implement it on that scale, was and is astonishing.
I'm a little cynical about some of his other stuff. Big Thunder looks pretty but is honestly a bad coaster. Every time you start to move it feels like you hit another lift hill. It's just oddly paced.
flynnibus
Premium Member
I look at it the same way as Rushmore.. those leaders were not the best of all time, they were impactful influencers who set the table for everything that came after them. They are the leaders.. the tip of the spear.. the trend setter.
That's why I say it's not a knock on Baxter's work to exclude him, nor is it to say something like BTMRR is not 'the best', but simply that Baxter didn't set this type of plan in motion.. He was able to take what those before him established and elevate it to even new levels with new takes as well. So my take is more about the monument being about the architects and not necessarily the 'best' -- if that makes sense.
flynnibus
Premium Member
It makes sense. I just happen to disagree with the value system and think that his body of work supersedes all of that.
Vegas Disney Fan
Well-Known Member
I’d put him in for DL Paris alone, I still think it’s the prettiest Disney park.
Add in Big Thunder, Splash, Indy… he has an impressive list of hits.
britain
Well-Known Member
To truly follow the Rushmore analogy, you'd need 2 founding fathers (Washington & Jefferson), 1 preserver during the Civil War (Lincoln), and one "modern day" (at the time Teddy Roosevelt was quite recent).
So there.
Now who do you pick?
I pick Marc Davis & John Hench for the first two slots, Tony Baxter in the Lincoln role, and... who's still there (not as an advisor)? Scott Trowbridge?
I know that doesn't quite seem right (no shade to Trowbridge intended). But a lot of America thought it was silly to see Teddy up there next to the other three presidents when Rushmore was completed too.
So there.
Now who do you pick?
I pick Marc Davis & John Hench for the first two slots, Tony Baxter in the Lincoln role, and... who's still there (not as an advisor)? Scott Trowbridge?
I know that doesn't quite seem right (no shade to Trowbridge intended). But a lot of America thought it was silly to see Teddy up there next to the other three presidents when Rushmore was completed too.
Again I repeat… it’s a travesty that Tony Baxter isn’t more involved with WDI. He’s relatively young. He’s healthy. He is one of the greatest if not the greatest imagineer of all time and he’s sitting at his house a few miles from the park while WDI lost a ton of institutional knowledge and has fumbled quite a few projects since. Why isnt Bruce Vaughn doing everything in his power to get Tony back on board?
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britain
Well-Known Member
Tony is a talented wild card. It makes sense, him being super creative, but I've frequently been surprised by some of his opinions. He's (if I'm remembering correctly) the one to say to JK Rowling "No, we're not going to build a replica of Hogsmede & Hogwarts. We're going to find a tidy little corner for you within Fantasyland." He's the one that recommended to John Lasseter (right after John got the job as WDI advisor) that the only way to fix DCA would be to make it a publicly accessible part of Downtown Disney and charge for individual tickets for the individual rides already there (in otherwords, there's no way to make it as good as Disneyland, so cut bait and give up).
It's possible Bruce has reached out to him, but Tony may have simply too many opinions and demands that clash with management's objectives. I really don't know.
First time I hear those things. Not really a fan of those ideas.
Yeah it’s tough to say. I will say the way they handled Splash Mountain leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I get the sense they weren’t really taking his advice or he was pushed out of that project and judging by the end result they probably shouldn’t have done that
britain
Well-Known Member
Gurr is an amazing talent worthy of WDI hall of fame, but I always tend to think of him more on the "Engineer" side of "Imagineer." It was John Hench that had the atommobile/doombuggy idea. Gurr figured out how to build it.