Would You Take a Bullet Train from Anaheim to Las Vegas?... Brightline West

[TP2000]

Where did I say "magic carpet that takes you door to door", I didn't. I said a well funded and perfectly filled out public transit system. Its well known that public transit systems outside the US are FAAAARRRRR superior to the ones inside the US. Not sure why that is even in dispute here.

You can drive 25 minutes on surface streets the 6 miles to Vancouver General Hospital, or you can take over an hour and walk a mile and then do two bus transfers and a train ride to get there. I know which one I'd choose.

Also I literally have co-workers that work/live in Vancouver and Montreal and don't drive and make it just fine on public transit to all their medical appointments without much need for transfers or a lot of extra walking that you're alluding to.

I picked Burnaby out of a hat because I know its an inner suburb and knew someone who lived there 40+ years ago.

Vancouver is a large city with sprawling suburbs. There are likely Vancouverites who live two blocks from their doctor's office, and there are likely more Vancoverites who live 10 miles from their doctor's office. It's a huge city.

The same thing is true of London, Tokyo, Paris, and Rome. How about Halifax? Anyone want to do Halifax?

So yeah, you coming from a US car centric driving mentality would rather drive. But guess what, not everyone is like you and rather not own a car or have be required to drive just to get to a medical appointment. Some people would rather like the ease of taking public transportation, which again is the WHOLE point of what several posters here are talking about. Welcome to 2025 where not everyone is so focus on the status of owning a car.

There's very little "status" in owning a car now. Even the poorest among us own cars, and many in California live in them.

The issue was not about car ownership. The issue was whether a free public health insurance system (Canada's Medicare, UK's NHS, etc.) includes complimentary transportation to routine doctor's appointments and/or hospital visits. In almost all foreign countries we've discussed so far, those nations do not offer that transportation service to their citizens.

The lone exception we've come up with so far is the United States, which covers free transportation to doctor's office, medical appointments, hospital stays, pharmacy pickups, dental check ups, counselor sessions, and all manner of needed medical care.

 

[Disney Irish]

You can drive 25 minutes on surface streets the 6 miles to Vancouver General Hospital, or you can take over an hour and walk a mile and then do two bus transfers and a train ride to get there. I know which one I'd choose.



I picked Burnaby out of a hat because I know its an inner suburb and knew someone who lived there 40+ years ago.

Vancouver is a large city with sprawling suburbs. There are likely Vancouverites who live two blocks from their doctor's office, and there are likely more Vancoverites who live 10 miles from their doctor's office. It's a huge city.

The same thing is true of London, Tokyo, Paris, and Rome. How about Halifax? Anyone want to do Halifax?

The point is you pick an arbitrary place on a map and just portray that as the "norm" for all people in that area, which I can tell you isn't the case. I would imagine that it doesn't even cover 10% of the people in the area.

Millions of people live and work in all those metro areas and don't own a car, and they get around just fine. Which is 100% of the point being made here.

There's very little "status" in owning a car now. Even the poorest among us own cars, and many in California live in them.

The issue was not about car ownership. The issue was whether a free public health insurance system (Canada's Medicare, UK's NHS, etc.) includes complimentary transportation to routine doctor's appointments and/or hospital visits. In almost all foreign countries we've discussed so far, those nations do not offer that transportation service to their citizens.

The lone exception we've come up with so far is the United States, which covers free transportation to doctor's office, medical appointments, hospital stays, pharmacy pickups, dental check ups, counselor sessions, and all manner of needed medical care.

No, the actual topic was what do people who don't own a car and only take public transportation do in times of medical need when they have to get to an appointment in the US. And the answer to that is, well they are screwed for the most part.

Your insistence that even the poorest among us in the US should be a car owner and that you'd rather take a car to a medical appointment is irrelevant.

 

[TP2000]

The point is you pick an arbitrary place on a map and just portray that as the "norm" for all people in that area, which I can tell you isn't the case. I would imagine that it doesn't even cover 10% of the people in the area.

I picked Burnaby randomly on the map because I once knew someone who lived there and its close to the biggest hospital in town. I Googled; the Vancouver BC metro area has a population of right around 3 Million, and the inner suburb of Burnaby which is located 5 miles as the crow flies east from downtown Vancouver has a population of 270,000.

What neighborhood in metro Vancouver BC would you like to use?

If a poor person without a car in Burnaby needs to get the 6 miles to Vancouver General Hospital, he can drive it in 25 minutes or take just over an hour and do two bus transfers and a train trip plus a mile of walking to get there. Because the Canadian government's healthcare system does not cover transportation, not even for poor Canadians.

If that poor person without a car was an American on Medicaid and was living in Tukwila, about five miles due south of downtown Seattle, he would be given free taxi/Uber or a Medivan service to and from his doctor's appointments and hospital visits. Because US Medicaid covers free transportation for routine care and hospital visits.

No, the actual topic was what do people who don't own a car and only take public transportation do in times of medical need when they have to get to an appointment in the US. And the answer to that is, well they are screwed for the most part.

The topic came up because of this false statement, and then a general consensus that it was right and somehow in foreign countries people get free rides to their free medical care. They do not. The free rides to the doctor only seems to apply to poor Americans on Medicaid, or on some forms of Medicare (poor seniors) or veterans using the VA system.

Those outside the US have a good chance of having access to medical transportation as a provided service.

That statement is false. In fact, the reality in the US today seems to be the complete opposite. (Still waiting for someone to find a country with government healthcare that provides free transportation to routine medical services, appointments, pharmacies, etc. like the US free healthcare systems do).

https://www.dhcs.ca.gov/services/medi-cal/Pages/Transportation.aspx

Your insistence that even the poorest among us in the US should be a car owner and that you'd rather take a car to a medical appointment is irrelevant.

It's not my "insistence", it's just the facts in 2025. Roughly 8% of American adults do not own a car today. The majority of that 8% are big city urban dwellers, mostly in the Northeast. The rest of those non-car folks are disabled, or very poor people more than 200% below the federal poverty level. Those folks would certainly qualify for Medicaid and/or the Medicare plans that cover free medical transportation to even routine doctor's visits and monthly pharmacy runs.

That's just the fact of the matter.

If you are poor and sick in Seattle, you get a free taxi ride to the free doctor in the USA. If you are poor and sick in Vancouver, you have to pay for your own taxi or pay for your own bus/train commute to the free doctor in Canada.

 

[Disney Irish]

I picked Burnaby randomly on the map because I once knew someone who lived there and its close to the biggest hospital in town. I Googled; the Vancouver BC metro area has a population of right around 3 Million, and the inner suburb of Burnaby which is located 5 miles as the crow flies east from downtown Vancouver has a population of 270,000.

What neighborhood in metro Vancouver BC would you like to use?

If a poor person without a car in Burnaby needs to get the 6 miles to Vancouver General Hospital, he can drive it in 25 minutes or take just over an hour and do two bus transfers and a train trip plus a mile of walking to get there. Because the Canadian government's healthcare system does not cover transportation, not even for poor Canadians.

If that poor person without a car was an American on Medicaid and was living in Tukwila, about five miles due south of downtown Seattle, he would be given free taxi/Uber or a Medivan service to and from his doctor's appointments and hospital visits. Because US Medicaid covers free transportation for routine care and hospital visits.

Its funny because you picked a metro area in Canada where approximately 50% of the population doesn't own a vehicle and finds alternative means of transportation. So maybe stop while you're behind on this one. Vancouver is a viable location with a public transit system used by half its population and they do just fine getting to medical appointments.

The topic came up because of this false statement, and then a general consensus that it was right and somehow in foreign countries people get free rides to their free medical care. They do not. The free rides to the doctor only seems to apply to poor Americans on Medicaid, or on some forms of Medicare (poor seniors) or veterans using the VA system.

The topic came up because @Parteecia asked a legitimate question for people in the US that don't have a vehicle and rely on public transportation how they get to medic treatments. So for all your pontificating you missed the whole point of this topic. And its that this question in reality has an answer, one that isn't covered by these "free rides" that you think is available, and that answer is that that if for whatever you don't have a car and rely on public transit you are mostly screwed in the US if you have a medical need outside of an emergency. Because you've made a lot of blanket statements, like the one where you claimed that private health insurance covers these "free rides", which is false. So the answer isn't "just buy a car" or "be poor enough to be eligible to get the free rides", its that the US has failed its population in public transit.

 

[Disney Irish]

I think its also an interesting question to ask, forgetting the "car freedom!" of the US car culture that has been ingrained into the population. How many would actually mostly stop driving or give up their vehicle completely if proper access to a fully built out public transportation network existed in this country and not this patch work faulty system we have today? I would imagine that a large percentage would, especially during the work week.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think its also an interesting question to ask, forgetting the "car freedom!" of the US car culture that has been ingrained into the population. How many would actually mostly stop driving or give up their vehicle completely if proper access to a fully built out public transportation network existed in this country and not this patch work faulty system we have today? I would imagine that a large percentage would, especially during the work week.

Not having to drive yourself around is and has been a selling point of Walt Disney World! And it’s not even that great of a system.

 

[TP2000]

Here's what I think we've all learned (heck, even @lazyboy97o learned something) in this thread in the past 36 hours;

1. If you are poor and sick and carless in the UK, Canada, Australia and most other Western countries, you have to pay for your own damn Uber to get to the free doctor's office or hospital.
2. If you are poor and sick and carless in the USA, the free Medicaid system (and some versions of free Medicare for seniors, plus all free VA hospitals/offices for Veterans) pays for your Uber to/from your routine free doctor's visits, hospital stays, dentist's visits, mental health counselor's visits, or monthly trips to the pharmacy for free prescriptions.
3. You should still probably tip your free Medicaid Uber driver, even just a few bucks, to be kind.
4. The Brightline West high speed train is still moving along and hopes to be open by 2029. But I'd bet two churros on 2030.
5. The California High Speed Rail system will never be completed, not even between Bakersfield and Fresno by 2040, and will likely never see service between LA and San Francisco in this century unless a private company like Brightline takes it over and dramatically reconfigures the entire thing. Anyone want to buy a swanky Fresno viaduct?
6. It's really Fun To Be Free!

 

[Disney Irish]

Here's what I think we've all learned (heck, even @lazyboy97o learned something) in this thread in the past 36 hours;

1. If you are poor and sick and carless in the UK, Canada, Australia and most other Western countries, you have to pay for your own damn Uber to get to the free doctor's office or hospital.
2. If you are poor and sick and carless in the USA, the free Medicaid system (and some versions of free Medicare for seniors, plus all free VA hospitals/offices for Veterans) pays for your Uber to/from your routine free doctor's visits, hospital stays, dentist's visits, mental health counselor's visits, or monthly trips to the pharmacy for free prescriptions.
3. You should still probably tip your free Medicaid Uber driver, even just a few bucks, to be kind.
4. The Brightline West high speed train is still moving along and hopes to be open by 2029. But I'd bet two churros on 2030.
5. The California High Speed Rail system will never be completed, not even between Bakersfield and Fresno by 2040, and will likely never see service between LA and San Francisco in this century unless a private company like Brightline takes it over and dramatically reconfigures the entire thing. Anyone want to buy a swanky Fresno viaduct?
6. It's really Fun To Be Free!

7. Hospitals won’t release you to a ride share service as they aren’t going to accept medical liability. So doesn’t matter if it’s “free” or not if you can’t use it.

 

[MoonRakerSCM]

Its funny because you picked a metro area in Canada where approximately 50% of the population doesn't own a vehicle and finds alternative means of transportation.

Source on that 50% not owning a vehicle?

 

[Disney Irish]

Source on that 50% not owning a vehicle?

Several sources showing the decline in car ownership in Vancouver plus show exact number of registrations.

Car ownership declining in City of Vancouver

Rising costs, shrinking parking access helping increase market for alternatives

www.biv.com

These were the most popular cars on Vancouver roads in 2022

Do you drive one of these cars?

www.vancouverisawesome.com

316,073 car registrations in 2022, in a population of 687,933 that are of driving age. That equates to ~46% car ownership, which means its 54% non-ownership, I just rounded it down to 50%.

 

[MoonRakerSCM]

Oh, I'm sorry... TP initially started off talking about the metro area... you're purposefully fixating on one portion (that suits your false words) and ignoring the core of his argument. We're talking about ~3.1 million people/commuters here, not the ~270,000 idiots in the city.

Your statement of "picked a metro area in Canada where approximately 50% of the population doesn't own a vehicle" is incorrect.

 

[Disney Irish]

Oh, I'm sorry... TP initially started off talking about the metro area... you're purposefully fixating on one portion (that suits your false words) and ignoring the core of his argument. We're talking about ~3.1 million people/commuters here, not the ~270,000 idiots in the city.

Your statement of "picked a metro area in Canada where approximately 50% of the population doesn't own a vehicle" is incorrect.

I’m focusing in on the city of Vancouver a region of the metro area, similar to how TP was also focusing in on with his cherry picked “scenario” of a neighborhood within that metro area, a city which has less than 50% car ownership. Also the city is fairly representative of the rest of the metro area, so I would say on average the data is fairly accurate. If you have other data that disputes this please provide it. Otherwise if not then please kindly back off.

I’m also not here to debate the choices of the citizens of that city, so also please refrain from calling them “idiots” just because you don’t agree with them not choosing cars over other forms of transportation. I personally drive a car, but it is not for me to force my driving habits on others. So I don’t care what someone chooses to use as their form of transportation, as it doesn’t affect me one bit.

My whole point in this is that US public transportation is horrible, and that shouldn’t be in dispute. It’s some of the worst in the industrialized world. And we as citizens should be ashamed and demand better of our public services especially for those that rely solely on it.

 

[truecoat]

Ambulance Fees​

The Ontario Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care sets, bills and collects ambulance fees that a member of the public may be charged after being transported to hospital by ambulance. You are responsible for an ambulance service co-payment charge of $45.00 for ambulance services rendered if the following conditions are true:

• You are a resident of Ontario
• You have a valid Ontario health card
• A physician deems your ambulance service medically necessary
• Your ambulance trip originates in Ontario and ends in Ontario
• You cannot claim an ambulance co-payment exemption

Every Province is different, but most are a couple of hundred dollars.

 

[Parteecia]

What I have gleaned from this discussion (which I was almost sorry I started) is that, in the U.S.A, some poor people can get free medical transportation assuming 1) they qualify for Medicaid, 2) can jump through the hoops to get it, and 3) know about and figure out how to access those particular services, IF available in their area.

Rich people are ... rich.

The vast middle is at the mercy of insurance companies and their constantly changing whims. Heaven help us.

 

[MoonRakerSCM]

Also the city is fairly representative of the rest of the metro area, so I would say on average the data is fairly accurate. If you have other data that disputes this please provide it. Otherwise if not then please kindly back off.

Baseless claims again applying numbers of the idiots in the city to an order of magnitude greater in population and area setting. Your "fairly representative" words are baseless and frankly wrong when applying any common sense knowledge about how metropolitan suburban areas work.

we as citizens should be ashamed and demand better of our public services

Being a person who works in an industry directly involved with private, city, county, state, and federal development, we should be improsoning people for how horrible our public services are. Massive amounts of fat, waste, idiocy (mostly in the cities), and ridiculous red tape and beaurocracy explodes even the smallest projects into ridiculous operations. Bloated fat unions, bloated overpowered environmental oversight, bloated cultural oversight, layer upon layer of idiotic requirements states like CA 'pioneer', it all needs to go.

 

[MoonRakerSCM]

Heck, this afternoon I was assembling a proposal for an earthwork job down in Imperial County. 75 PERCENT of the forms I filled out were about DEI. First few pages normal stuff, then a friggin onslaught of idiocy.

 

[Disney Irish]

Baseless claims again applying numbers of the idiots in the city to an order of magnitude greater in population and area setting. Your "fairly representative" words are baseless and frankly wrong when applying any common sense knowledge about how metropolitan suburban areas work.


Being a person who works in an industry directly involved with private, city, county, state, and federal development, we should be improsoning people for how horrible our public services are. Massive amounts of fat, waste, idiocy (mostly in the cities), and ridiculous red tape and beaurocracy explodes even the smallest projects into ridiculous operations. Bloated fat unions, bloated overpowered environmental oversight, bloated cultural oversight, layer upon layer of idiotic requirements states like CA 'pioneer', it all needs to go.

Blah blah blah, so you don’t have any numbers to dispute it, gotcha.

 

[chadwpalm]

This thread went off the rails....

 

[MoonRakerSCM]

Blah blah blah, so you don’t have any numbers to dispute it, gotcha.

When you provide shoddy information based on false assumptions and run with it as fact... yeah... I kinda can't argue with you. Have yourself a pleasant week.

 

[DLR92]

Aside from this drama, California infrastructure sucks. We need this bullet train no matter how expensive it is.
Californians and Americans have to adapt a changing environment. Automobiles are becoming more expensive with every year new models being pushed . Expanding freeways seems impossible and can’t rely on expanding the freeways to relief congestion. We have to adapt to be less reliant on cars. WE NEED options!