PerGron’s Reviews
Team Wonder- Disney’s Oceans Beyond
So here we are on our third and final review for project two. Once again, I sincerely apologize these took so long to get out, but it has been a lot of fun going through these projects in such detail and I hope everyone has been enjoying the breakdowns. Anywho, onto
Disney’s Oceans Beyond which was the most fun project to follow the development of. A lot of the team here was very active and bounced ideas off one another really well. I will say, this team did have a bit of a communication issue too though with a couple players not really engaging with the rest of the team in the brainstorming which I would like to see improve. Instead of just liking posts, try to respond, especially if a question is asked of you because I saw a few “hey ___, what are your thoughts” that would get a like or a heart but no reply. Taking the time to respond makes the process go a lot smoother and it shows me as the host that you are engaged and want to stick around. Beyond that though, you guys really nailed this project and kind of went way above and beyond by adding a second SUBland (quite literally) to just about every land which is an amazing feat in and of itself. Going into these reviews, I had very high hopes for this project in particular and I am happy to say I did not leave disappointed.
To kick it off: despite using the pretty commonly used Google Docs format, I thoroughly enjoyed the way you used the tools available in that service to put together a unique feeling presentation style utilizing the document tabs. I didn’t really bring it up as a critique in the previous two reviews, but the necessity to continuously click different links or hit the arrows back to view something I wanted to reread is a bit of an inconvenience when it comes to efficiency in reading. I don’t think it’s a huge enough issue to warrant criticism in those reviews, but I did want to highlight how simple it was to hop back and forth to everything I wanted to look at in this presentation. There is, of course, still some amount of clicking and backtracking to be done here, I think it’s actually impossible to achieve anything without it, but for the most part I think you guys had the most successful presentation style for my money. I also wanted to mention how much I loved the color for the backgrounds and text. There’s a balance that needs to be met between aesthetics and readability and I think you guys toed the line quite well, even for my failing eyes.
The map is just f***ing amazing. Seriously
@Architectural Guinea Pig, you nailed this and one day when I’m designing my zoo I’ll be reaching out to hire you to design my map! The logos for the lands are equally well done and while they maybe harken back a tiny bit too much to Epcot, at the same time I think the Epcot land logos are so iconic that it makes sense to bring that to the other parks. As for the FantaSea Subs, I think a nice full-park transportation is a great addition, especially because the walk around the park to get to Portorosso would probably be a lot for some people, so being able to get there riding a unique vehicle is great. The suspended monorail style is also a great decision as it’s wholly unique to any other transportation available in the property. I do wish we got a little more information about the individual show scenes, but for what there is I quite enjoyed it.
As an entry land,
Serene Shores sounds pretty perfect. The first zoo I ever worked at was attached to a beachfront amusement park and living in New England there are beach boardwalks everywhere, so the style of boardwalks have always been nostalgic for me. While this may run the issue of being similar to the resort, I think you have plenty here to differentiate it being more of a true theme park land with attractions rather than just shopping and dining. Of all of the opening lands from the three parks this is certainly the most jam-packed full of rides and attractions, something that differentiates this park from the existing parks as well. Magic Kingdom famously has no rides on Main Street, Epcot has the one, Hollywood Studios has one, and Animal Kingdom has none. This park having a coaster, a Ferris wheel, a funhouse, and a bunch of flat rides is an interesting design philosophy that breaks the established mold in a way I think is successful.
The issue I had with Serene Shores is that it’s really not very detailed. While I appreciate that most of these attractions are rather simple, I feel like none of them really got to shine here because it was mostly just a couple of sentences. I’m going to go through all of them as I have been doing for other projects, but I wanted to just give this overall criticism before so that if my reviews are smaller than they have been you understand why.
Solar Breeze is the exception to this rule for sure because you manage to give this all of the detail that it really needs. It’s a giant Ferris wheel, you give dimensions and explain the gimmick where it loads underground (I’m assuming some sort of utilidor type thing based on how high Florida’s water table is) to look like a setting sun which is a genius visual that I think would make a beautiful park icon.
Coastal Coaster is another item I can’t exactly fault you for. This is a wooden coaster themed to being a wooden coaster and that works really well for the land. You don’t need a grand theme or story if you’re doing a wooden coaster whose theme is a boardwalk amusement park coaster, and as I said with the previous coasters throughout the game, they're very difficult to write (HINT HINT) and so I don't mind that you didn't do an incredibly detailed ride-through just based on that fact alone. Where my issues kind of begin is in the
Madhouse Manor, which I think is an absolutely outstanding idea thematically, but I could've used A LOT more in terms of details about it. This feels like an ad you'd see for the park celebrating the fact it's so big where I wish it could've been more of a walkthrough experience for the writeup. Kind of go room by room, even if its not the most detailed part of the project, just a feel for what the whole experience ends up being. Instead, I feel like you've pitched a funhouse but haven't ironed out the fine details yet.
Shipwreck Adventure Zone, however, is where I can really tell you must've run out of time on the write-up because you mention multiple extra attractions like flat rides and a people mover dark ride and yet there's no info, names, attraction style, or anything else featured here. I understand the real world takes priority and if there wasn't a lot of time to focus on this portion of the project that's entirely fine, but ultimately I think the decision to cut it should've been made rather than leaving out pretty much any amount of information. I know this is meant to be the "underwater" portion of the land and I understand the thematic reason to keep it around, but I think Serene Shores probably could've gone without an underwater portion if you didn't have the time to write it all out because what it feels like instead is kind of lazy unfortunately. I really hate to say it and please please please do not take it as an insult because, again, I fully understand complications that come with online hobbies like this, but for the opening land of your park, I think this is pretty easily the weakest of the three just based on the lack of details alone. All three teams seemed to struggle to get their opening lands up, which is unfortunate, but while I do think this is my favorite in terms of theming, I just struggled to take it seriously where so much stuff was missing. It's the same issue I have with the
Harborside Hill Amphitheater, which sounds like something that would be a great addition to the park, I just have no idea why it's there. There is no stage show set there ala Sunset Boulevard Amphitheater, and if this is just a space for pop up musical performances, I struggle to see its purpose. Sure, Epcot has one but it's usually filled with something and while you do say that daily performances occur, the question must be asked: daily performances of what?
Tributary Transport is a nice enough addition to the land, it serves to fill the Main Street Vehicles niche of some ambient kinetic transportation throughout the land and unlike the other stuff featured I don't think this needed any more detail than it was given.
Pacific Palace Bar & Grill is another thing that doesn't necessarily NEED the extra detail, but I think it really would've benefitted from it. A menu especially, or at least a few offerings, would've greatly added to what is currently a lacking bit of the project. It's a fine enough restaurants and restaurants in general never really get a ton of love, but it just adds to the pile of light detail pieces of this land that kind of detracts from it for me. I do like the entrance and the inclusion of shopping, but unfortunately as a whole, despite its theme which I really really did love, I wish there was more here for me to sink my teeth into. I don't want to keep issuing the exact same problems to every piece of this land and again I want to reaffirm I don't think this is bad in any way and the theme and idea works very well, I was just unfortunately disappointed in what I had hoped would be the best opening land from this wave of projects.
Moving on to
Polynesia, however, I do not have these issues. This land is richly and beautifully detailed with some really great attraction choices and I think while it is maybe a really obvious pick (it is the second Polynesia-themed land we've seen in this round after all), I think sometimes the obvious picks are the best ones. To kick it off, moving
The Enchanted Tiki Room here is a pretty fascinating choice, I mean it's a huge icon of Adventureland, but at the same time I can appreciate the choice to move such a beloved attraction and to update it to fit a whole new generation. I do wish that you mentioned more of how the Dynamic Theater system played into the attraction, what about some robot birds singing in the ceiling lends itself to a moving theater? It's a fun idea and I can imagine it working, I just wish there was more about how and why. That said, the artwork for the entrance is brilliant as well as the map and it just shows AGP's rising contributions to the forums as another huge powerhouse player in the new generation.
Getting into the attractions themselves,
Hawaiian Roller Coaster Ride is a phenomenal addition to the land and is something I've tossed around a few times but never really had the space to put it. I didn't know stand up coasters even existed before reading this, but it makes for a really brilliant way to do a surfing themed coaster. I thoroughly enjoyed the story for this attraction as well, explaining why the whole thing isn't in the water by use of an anti-gravity gun from a mischievous Stitch animatronic. The use of animatronics here is great because while you could easily just do David as a screen, the choice to make him an animatronic is interesting and fun. This is probably my ignorance on coasters speaking, but the fact you claim this is the most tame coaster in the park and that just blew me away that something like this isn't incredibly insane? I guess that makes sense for doing a family friendly IP like Lilo & Stitch as a coaster. Some of the big set pieces like the wave tunnel seem like fun and I think this would overall be a huge hit. It's a nice way to do Polynesia without just doing Moana Moana Moana and adds some nice spice to the land.
Kakamora Playground sounds like the perfect way to do a playground at a park like this. The kakamora ships with their beams and nets and ropes just lend themselves beautifully to a jungle gym experience and the added splash and play area you featured here makes it even more realistic. While I think a bucket of water being dumped on someone's head is a good way to get someone really angry at you, the extra splash and squirt water jets sprinkled throughout are a wonderful inclusion and are a nice plus up from the Leaky Tikis at Adventureland.
Mystic Gardens, on the other hand, is a beautifully adapted version of Journey of Water for this land. I'm a massive Journey of Water fan, honestly it's my favorite thing Disney has added since probably Everest it's that good, but I do agree that its placement in the core is awkward and so seeing it get moved and expanded into a Polynesian area is great. Adding in the ability to play with and interact with the plants and "lava" as well is a great expansion of the idea that fits your land very very well. These two things together really give the Polynesia land a unique and beautiful identity and I could see them working really well for theme park fans and first time visitors alike.
Now I mentioned it with the Aladdin attraction in Crossroads City but man, sometimes a well-done book report dark ride can be a super effective way to use a beloved IP without really messing with an original story. Yes, in a way they can be lazy, but I think they have their place and where we have you guys developing entire parks, they fit well. That's the case with
The Legend of Moana, a book report dark ride that takes the beloved movie Moana and retells it using one of the most fun and interesting dark ride technologies out there. I think if you're going to use the Shanghai Pirates tech, it's gotta be for a Moana dark ride and I think you did that beautifully. It tells the story effectively and sweetly while still having plenty of moments of excitement and thrills due to the technology available. I also think the choice to pick the scenes you did is inspired as well, especially where Tamatoa plays such an important role in another attraction and the kakamora have their playground, I appreciated that you didn't insert them into this ride too. I know and understand the aversion to book report dark rides, especially in armchair imagineering, but I think you took a swing at it and struck it out of the park. It's simple but realistic and effective and complements the rest of the land without confusing its own identity. Amazing work.
With another type of ride technology I didn't know existed, the inclusion of a Haus Top Spin attraction in a Disney park and themed to Moana is maybe a slight bit unrealistic, but I love the way everyone's been using new technologies. I think
Lalotai Heartfall is just at the right level where it doesn't go over the line into too much thrill for a Disney park into Six Flags territory, but maintains a level of thrill that I think people would absolutely make the trip to visit it. The viewing balcony adds a huge sense of realism as well so that guests who are too scared or too young can still experience the vibe of the ride. Using projections makes sense where animatronics don't in this space, and the fact there's two different villains adds to some rerideability, especially for people who got Matangi and get mad that they didn't get Tamotoa.
I quite like the supplemental stuff as well with the character meet and greets making sense (though Mickey and Minnie being in Polynesia and not the opening land is maybe a bit odd), but including Moana, Lilo and Stitch, etc. all fit perfectly. The costumed cast members including Polynesian attire also makes sense though I have the same issue I brought up before with the Land of the Dead where you don't want to force some teen ride operator or food service person to get all dolled up to take your order, so a certain level of realism in terms of cast member costumes should be reached.
Leaki Tiki Terrace as a juice/Dole Whip bar is a great choice and the additional dining is nice. No shopping is certainly a choice and I do wish more detail was given to dining, but with how much AGP had on their plate, I can forgive it to an extent, I do just wish there was more here on that end. Still, Polynesia was a really big step up and I have to give kudos for how well it turned out.
For the three projects, each had a land whose development I was most interested in and intrigued by. For Team Dream it was Cheddar Crater, for Team Magic it was Crossroads City, and for Team Wonder it was
Portorosso. While I do think this land had the absolute best attraction of the project by a pretty wide margin (not to discredit anyone else's work, it's just that the vespa race clearly had a lot of passion in it) I did find myself underwhelmed by the rest of the land. A land based around seaside Italy, I had hoped it would have more thematic stuff going on with entertainment and especially with dining and while it is mentioned that this stuff exists, I would've liked more about it. Even if it was just one major Italian restaurant I think it would've added more to this land than just two attractions. I do like this as a secondary entrance, I love that about Epcot and think more parks should have it, but just the land description needed a bit more. I know it was done by
@Pi on my Cake who also filled in on a lot of other stuff as well, so I appreciate the work here and this isn't on you. Honestly, I kind of want to call out people here but I will not, but some players contributed way more than others and when stuff like this needs to be done, those less busy players could easily fill in and do a restaurant or a shop or something. Helping out people who pick up the bigger stuff like huge rides or whole lands themselves is how teamwork works and while I see a lot of the same three or four names in the credits picking up multiple things or whole lands but that can't be said for every player, and it's not like these players weren't available because they kept reacting to things. Work on teamwork guys, it's how these games go.
Like I said already,
The Great Vespa Race is pretty easily my favorite attraction from this roster just because of the sheer passion that clearly went into it. The idea of a Luca land in general is an interesting one because it's not exactly the most beloved IP (though I do love that movie), but if you are going to do a Luca land you absolutely have to have a Vespa attraction and this really filled that niche. It's a full story bursting to the brim with excitement and wonder that tells an entire complete story from start to finish in a way that a lot of real attractions do. While I could see an argument that a 1:1 port over of Radiator Springs Racers but rethemed is a lazy way to do this attraction, I think back to the fact Dinosaur and Indiana Jones Adventure literally share the exact same layout and that potential argument subsides. This is just a really wonderful E-ticket that captures the magic of Disney so beautifully. Out of every single attraction in all three parks honestly this feels like the most realistic maybe not in terms of likelihood of happening but rather in just vibe of what a Disney ride is. Again, not to discredit anyone else's work, this just feels like something I could imagine riding and I really think it just comes down to the passion
@TheOriginalTiki had for writing it.
Life Below is the perfect counter to The Great Vespa Race being just a really short and sweet omnimover focused more on scenery than on thrills and story. This ride went through some turbulence getting made and sat in limbo for a while but ultimately I am glad it's here. It's maybe not the most thrilling or exciting thing ever, but a short gag-filled underwater themed omnimover fits perfectly in a Portorosso land and I'm glad it ended up in here.
Heading into
The Lost Empire, I do really appreciate how different the two interpretations of the Atlantis property have been from one another this game. Both use the indoor format well but have a far different variety of attractions which I thought was great.
Expedition: Atlantis, while not my personal pick over Vespa Race, I do think this is another just sheer triumph of an attraction. I do wish I had a better understanding of what type of attraction this is and what a "Gyroball" is because upon my research it just brings up centrifuge machines which I can't imagine being what you're going with. Aside from this, I think each and every one of your showscenes work brilliantly and I also think the narration between Milo and Mole works well. I'm a critic of narration in attractions but I think when it's more Hondo and less "in the beginning there was the Cube," it works out way better and I quite enjoyed the verbal sparring you had the two characters do. Overall this is another just amazing attraction that really builds on an already great land.
Darkest Depths is another really fun sounding coaster and as the third in the park thus far, I do really appreciate how every single coaster you have is a completely different style. A wooden coaster, a stand up coaster, and now a single rail coaster, these are all brand new styles of coaster for the Disney parks and I like that effort to maintain that throughout. Honestly the sheer amount of new attraction styles in this park is pretty amazing, very similar to Team Dream's project who had the same thing with more flat rides than coasters, but still a really nice link and it's funny that the two teams who had the most unique new attractions are also the two teams that did Atlantis and Moana. The writeup for Darkest Depths is by necessity very simple as it's mostly through the dark so I can't knock you for a lack of detail since I imagine there wouldn't be a lot of detail anyway. I'd always love more, but I understand why it is the way it is and I appreciated what you were able to give us. I am curious where the FOP style attraction is, but I'm assuming it just got cut without time to edit the map, so it's a phase II expansion obviously.
The supplemental stuff here is pretty solid, the best of the lands thus far because you give much more detail in your restaurant and game than the other lands did their restaurants.
Ulysses Dining Room seems like a nice fancy restaurant with some cool theming ala Coral Reef or Space 220 meets Skipper Canteen and looking into the coaster rather than screens is a fun choice too.
Sunken Swirl is a great flat ride that has been done before but is very much the kind of kinetic addition that a park can really benefit from. Good work on adding a flat ride, something the land always benefits from! The rest of the restaurants and shopping are all solid if not a bit lacking in detail. Stop me if you've heard that one before.
So in initial discussions for this competition (as
@Pi on my Cake @TheOriginalTiki and
@JokersWild know), there was initially a ban put on certain IPs that are overdone like Muppets, Marvel, and of course, Star Wars. I decided against maintaining this ban knowing this was one of the projects and I'm so glad I chose that decision. While I think expanding Galaxy's Edge prompts are overdone, there's so much that can be done within the wider Star Wars galaxy and
Galaxy's Edge: Naboo proves that beautifully. The prequel and Clone Wars era is probably the most popular era within Star Wars at this current point where kids like me who grew up as the prequels were coming out are now adults and have the nostalgic love for this timeline, so having a land dedicated to the Clone Wars makes a ton of sense and would make a lot of people happy. I also love the reasoning here comparing Star Wars to Harry Potter and I could imagine doing multiple Galaxy's Edges across the various parks (Endor or Kashyyyk in AK, Tatooine or Yavin in MK, etc.) so I liked that you thought of that and mentioned it in the brainstorming.
Podrace Rush is a perfect addition to a new Galaxy's Edge no matter where it's set. Whether you love or hate The Phantom Menace I think most people agree the podrace is pretty sweet and including it into a land makes a ton of sense. I also like that it's a coaster because I've seen so many podrace attractions where it's VR but I think a coaster serves it very very well. You did a really solid writeup here too because instead of focusing on the way the ride goes you instead focus on the specs and stuff like that but still give enough detail of the area around it and the way it works that I didn't feel anything lacking here. Just a really solid and simple coaster with a really top-notch theme. As for
Attack of the Droids this is pretty much exactly what a prequel-themed land needs. You can't really do a shooting dark ride against stormtroopers for the simple fact they're people and killing people directly in a ride at Disney World isn't it, but killing robots? There's plenty of precedent for that! Shooting dark rides are a favorite of a lot of people and the ability to gameify attractions is a great way to get people to reride an attraction over and over. Choosing Ahsoka is a shoe-in for likability, she's easily one of the most popular Star Wars characters currently, and while I think Captain Rex would make more sense than Commander Cody from a canon junkie perspective, a clone is a clone and Commander Cody is probably the second most popular of the clone troopers. I'd love to be able to blast clankers with the grand army of the Republic and I think a lot of people would as well. Two just absolutely perfect fits in this land so far so great job.
Now for the
Galactic Gala, this is a critical need because this park thus far has not had any sit down shows. You guys have had an amazing variety of attractions, the lack of entertainment has been notable and so a show where you include the amazing stuff from the doomed Galactic Starcruiser as a show is the perfect implementation of the technology. I love the inclusions of the characters you did like Anakin, Mace Windu, Padme, etc. as these are some just truly beloved characters and all of them would work really well in a hybrid stunt show. I do wish there was more entertainment in the park, it's one of my bigger issues with it, but I appreciate that you at least included the one.
Grievous Assault (Grievous Menace?) is another great addition that utilizes another popular and so far unused attraction style at a Disney Park. Utilizing General Grievous as the villain leading an attack on the Gungan City makes a lot of sense and getting to bring in the Bongo and the sea monsters from The Phantom Menace is another just *chef's kiss* type of idea. I don't have a ton to say about any of these attractions unfortunately, (I'm quite tired) but I found them all very good and I love that you have more than just two attractions in the land, that is how it should be and yet Disney hasn't figured that out it seems.
The rest of the stuff with
Gungan Spin as well as the shopping and dining is all really solid too, it's just less detailed blah blah blah. Despite that though, I think this is the perfect way to do a new Star Wars land at Disney World and I'm incredibly pleased by the way you managed this. Amazing work overall!
Finally, I'm going to discuss the nighttime show, my niece will take the character dining, and we'll be done. Let's get into it.
Waterful Dreams is probably the best of the nighttime attractions featured in the three parks. It has a full beginning, middle, and end and while it relies a lot on the characters and IP that so many people complain about, the inclusion of water, projections, and characters all is really solid and beautifully done and I'd definitely stick around for this show when I visit.
Pumbaa's Reviews
"I like the boat because I like going on the boat at grammy's house but she doesn't have princesses unless I brought my princess dollies. I like pirates yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me."
So yeah, big hit there. I do love that the dining is an experience and is actually on a boat, though my biggest issue is the single hour to order, eat, and debark is maybe a bit short? I'm sure something like this could be remedied by having a prefixe menu or something, but just a note I had.
Overall, I think thematically this was the strongest park but it ended up taking a couple big hits here and there. This is still an incredibly (and I do mean incredibly) strong project with some truly amazing stuff though and all of you should be insanely proud!
But with that, it's time to get to results...
