MK Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[TheMaxRebo]

I’m against the loss of the riverboat and will not accept any reason for its removal but in no way do I think that losing the rivers and liberty Belle = death to magic kingdom.

Likewise it’s silly to think that keeping the rivers and liberty Belle = death to magic kingdom.

MK will continue to do well regardless.

Which is actually a reason this expansion is more of a head scratcher - DHS needs all of this way more than MK!

I do think DHS, and AK, need expansion more but also think that if more people are attracted to WDW then they will visit MK - no matter what they do to the other parks, people will always include MJ in their trips so I do think expanding capacity at MK makes sense but also should be at all the other parks, especially DHS and AK

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Not necessarily. Some insiders claim that there was lots of debate about this.


Too soon!!!!!!!! Haha

Just b/c they settled on this option doesn't mean it was clear cut of unanimous. But I don't think there was this evil vendetta to remove the river knowing it was a bad decision to do so - there were reasons for it

 

[lazyboy97o]

They would have had to do some pretty significant infrastructure change to enable sufficient access.

I agree they didn't have to close the entire river but they must have felt this was the best way to do it based on a lot of information (including a lot we don't have access to) and, yes, to generate more income. But it is still part of the same project

No way they would do *just* Piston Peak

They’re doing pretty significant infrastructure changes!

They also felt the desire build a very, very expense, starchitect designed, too small, too limited access Festival Center was the way to go at Epcot.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

But I don't think there was this evil vendetta to remove the river knowing it was a bad decision to do so - there were reasons for it

There’s reasons for any decision. That doesn’t mean it was “the best way.”

For all we know….. one executive looked at a plan that included the riverboat staying and said “put a cars attraction there” and walked out. Not saying that’s what happened but we don’t know.

 

[fgmnt]

They would have had to do some pretty significant infrastructure change to enable sufficient access.

I agree they didn't have to close the entire river but they must have felt this was the best way to do it based on a lot of information (including a lot we don't have access to) and, yes, to generate more income. But it is still part of the same project

No way they would do *just* Piston Peak

“Best” meaning what management was wiling to stomach financially. There is a world where you get the expansions announced while not losing RoA but there would be
1) significant capital costs added to the projects to adjust existing park infrastructure to accommodate future public access where there was once backstage areas
2) significant additional capital costs to developing more land outside the berm and unsettled as part of the park perimeter
3) additional commitments to operational capacity of the park keeping the RoA and its activities as an going concern indefinitely


I don’t think these are great reasons but I think most posters here assumed management balked at keeping RoA because of (3), when I really think they didn’t want to shoulder (1) and (2).

 

[Casper Gutman]

I'm all for new great attractions that draw crowds on the Big Thunder side of the park- but unless you want an endless sea of people to constantly be your sightline, guests need relaxed visual spaces like what ROA/TSI accomplished. There has to be a good balance. As an IP, though I like the idea of the main ride, Cars does not fit there. And I like the movies.

MK feels much more oppressively crowded then the other parks not only because the crowds are larger but because it’s much more tightly packed and there are far fewer open “vistas” (I don’t have the design language to be more precise), spaces you can look that aren’t packed with people or structures. EPCOT in particular is arranged to accentuate these open spaces (one reason the overly busy new hub fails) but MGM and AK have them too. The Frontierland changes will not only increase crowds but, by getting rid of the parks only remaining vista, will increase the SENSE of the being crowded.

To put it simply - MK badly needs more open spaces, not fewer.

 

[Disstevefan1]

There is no sinkhole.

Sinkholes of Orange County, Florida , 2008

Map of This map was created by FCIT and represents reported sinkhole events in Orange County based on data gathered by the Florida Geological Survey (FGS) and the Florida Department of Environmental Protection (FDEP). " This dataset represents a set of...

fcit.usf.edu

I thought EPCOT was in Osceola county and besides that, back then, RCID (an arm of TWDC) was who would say what and what was not a sinkhole

 

[Disstevefan1]

There’s reasons for any decision. That doesn’t mean it was “the best way.”

For all we know….. one executive looked at a plan that included the riverboat staying and said “put a cars attraction there” and walked out. Not saying that’s what happened but we don’t know.

I bet there is someone with a spreadsheet showing how much money will be saved in maintenance as a result of destroying RoA, TSI, the riverboat and how much money will be made in sales of LL as a result of opening the new attractions.

Theming, beauty and atmosphere was killed by Iger’s leadership.

It’s all about money now.

 

[el_super]

Too soon!!!!!!!! Haha

Ah I couldn't help it.

At Disneyland though, at least for the last few years when the Mark Twain was running alone, they've been leaving on the half-hour instead of doing continuous trips. That means, even with the shorter route, the boat is still spending a lot of time ( maybe half the time?) at the dock waiting for people to show up. One trip every 30 minutes would put the Mark Twain's capacity at about 600/hour. Less than the Tea Cups on a much smaller plot of land.

The island rafts hold about 50 people, fully loaded, and they leave the dock probably around every 10-15 minutes, which would put the island at about 200-250/people per hour. On the high side.

And neither one is open the full operating hours of the park either. Both tend to open late and close at dusk.

 

[el_super]

The Frontierland changes will not only increase crowds but, by getting rid of the parks only remaining vista, will increase the SENSE of the being crowded.

Those spaces looked empty because people couldn't utilize them. By opening up space that couldn't be utilized for people to walk and rest in, people will be more spread out and the park will feel less crowded.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I thought EPCOT was in Osceola county and besides that, back then, RCID (an arm of TWDC) was who would say what and what was not a sinkhole

None of the parks are in Osceola County.

Oh look, another “joke” so you can state nonsense. How clever.

 

[Andrew C]

By opening up space that couldn't be utilized for people to walk and rest in, people will be more spread out and the park will feel less crowded.

Just wait.

 

[networkpro]

"Die Welt ist klein!"

Nein, die Welt ist nicht klein, Sie haben sie nur nicht richtig organisiert.

 

[Disstevefan1]

None of the parks are in Osceola County.

Oh look, another “joke” so you can state nonsense. How clever.

I thought you knew, stating nonsense is my job...

Well it appears a portion of WDW is in Osceola county, if we can believe Google.

I remember the sinkhole rumors. Yes, probably a fake rumor and its most likely Horizons was destroyed and replaced because they lost GE as sponsor and HP came along and would only be a sponsor if Horizons was destroyed and replaced by something new, which became Mission Space.

The HP sponsorship apparently ended in 2015 according to google so Mission Space in on life support.

I really did love Horizons and really do also like Mission space and wish we had both. This is my nonsense contribution to this post <----- winky means joke.

I know there are folks who hate Mission Space.

I wonder what IP based attraction will replace Mission Space?

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

At Disneyland though, at least for the last few years when the Mark Twain was running alone, they've been leaving on the half-hour instead of doing continuous trips.

sure…. But I’m wondering if the numbers have significantly dropped over the years.

Stayed the same?

Risen even with attendance?

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

Not that any of us know… but have the attendance numbers changed drastically for the riverboat or island?

I mean if the attraction has no wait and only can fit around 400 on at once, it can only get through 800 people in an hour and still has no wait. People simply don’t care about the ROA as much as most people think. Like I said, I asked my entire family for their opinion (careful not to let my opinion show) and only one of them even knew what I was talking about and all of them did not care and said that the cars sounded cool

 

[Casper Gutman]

Those spaces looked empty because people couldn't utilize them. By opening up space that couldn't be utilized for people to walk and rest in, people will be more spread out and the park will feel less crowded.

Nope. The new attractions will increase crowds and the loss of any sense of openness will make the increased crowds FEEL even more oppressive.

I already find MK unpleasantly tight and packed in with both people and structures. Entering the RoA area gave a palpable sense of relief. That area will now become as oppressive as Adventureland - arguably more so because HM, Splash, Thunder, and now Piston all TOWER in a way structures in Adventure don’t. Tomorrowland is now the most open spot in the MK despite the placement of the idiotic stage.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

I've proposed several times on these boards over the years to raze IaSW to get to the beyond-the-berm expansion pad.

But not to get rid of it completely, but to build a better version in EPCOT, which could have been plussed in so many ways, starting with the industrial ceiling of the warehouse.

Oh I like the idea too but this idea to replace it to become the walkway to villians is incredibly stupid. People cry about removing classic attractions but are trying to remove one of the quintessential most popular Disney attractions to become??? A walkway??? Are we being fr right now? To save a river that most people genuinely do not care about. I mean look at the last day hype for the ROA, Bugs life had a bigger crowd

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

None of the parks are in Osceola County.

Oh look, another “joke” so you can state nonsense. How clever.

This guy 100% just says the most ridiculous stuff and just ends it off with a wink as if it’s funny now?

Never liked that, if I’m going to have a discussion I don’t love people inserting random “jokes” so they can just say whatever they want and get away with adding nothing of substance

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

Nope. The new attractions will increase crowds and the loss of any sense of openness will make the increased crowds FEEL even more oppressive.

I already find MK unpleasantly tight and packed in with both people and structures. Entering the RoA area gave a palpable sense of relief. That area will now become as oppressive as Adventureland - arguably more so because HM, Splash, Thunder, and now Piston all TOWER in a way structures in Adventure don’t. Tomorrowland is now the most open spot in the MK despite the placement of the idiotic stage.

There are pathways throughout the entire thing it seems with some open area around the queue entrance. I think it will be fine. I also like how I’ve heard the argument that cars is irrelevant and no one cares about it AND cars is going to overcrowd the park because of how popular it will be (but it’s still gonna be bad)