MK Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[Animaniac93-98]

You relentlessly pretend Disney parks are nothing more then a disconnected series of attractions governed by no design principles or philosophy or any sense of aesthetic or narrative cohesion. It’s such a staggeringly narrow view of the parks.

Again, I point to their least attended park as a perfect example of what happens when Disney fails to comprehend this, despite having lots of rides and IP on paper.

So many here who have never been probably can't comprehend that a Disney park was ever built like that.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

The entirety of Liberty Square and Frontierland are designed around the Rivers of America. It’s the primarily element of the two lands’ spatial organization. “Castle parks” aren’t actually designed around the castle, but the hub (which pre-dates the castle). It’s the castle’s placement on the central plaza that gives it prominence. Change the spatial organization of the park and that significance will change. Swap the castle with something else and that significance will change. How space is composed is a key component to how it is experienced, the same thing in different spatial contexts becomes a different experience. The castles aren’t inherently special but because they are sited at the central organizing element of the park. The comparison to the castles misses the source of significance. The Rivers of America is to Frontierland and Liberty Square what the hub is to the entire park.

This is important because other Disney parks and theme parks have castles, some quite large and prominent, but they're not thought of as being like Magic Kingdom besides having rides and characters.

The spatial organization of the park is just as important as any of the actual buildings or landscaping that exist within it

Imagine if a large bridge with upstairs stores was built across Main Street, one so bulky in mass it blocked the view of the castle and you couldn't see past Uptown Jewelers. Maybe the bridge has lots of ornamentation and the windows are decorated with flower boxes and the whole thing is trimmed with popcorn lights. Wouldn't it look pretty? And wouldn't that extra retail space be good for business?

No, because it would make Main Street look substantially shorter than it is and throw off the scale of the existing buildings. No matter how nice the bridge looks in isolation, it would ruin the aesthetics of everything else.

This is what they are doing in Frontierland. Dropping a mass of rockwork, trees and buildings into a space you were meant to see straight across and give a sense of scale to the surroundings.

[side note, this is why I don't like the Monorail bridge in Buena Vista Street, and yes, I know it was there to begin with]

 

[Casper Gutman]

This is important because other Disney parks and theme parks have castles, some quite large and prominent, but they're not thought of as being like Magic Kingdom besides having rides and characters.

The spatial organization of the park is just as important as any of the actual buildings or landscaping that exist within it

Imagine if a large bridge with upstairs stores was built across Main Street, one so bulky in mass it blocked the view of the castle and you couldn't see past Uptown Jewelers. Maybe the bridge has lots of ornamentation and the windows are decorated with flower boxes and the whole thing is trimmed with popcorn lights. Wouldn't it look pretty? And wouldn't that extra retail space be good for business?

No, because it would make Main Street look substantially shorter than it is and throw off the scale of the existing buildings. No matter how nice the bridge looks in isolation, it would ruin the aesthetics of everything else.

This is what they are doing in Frontierland. Dropping a mass of rockwork, trees and buildings into a space you were meant to see straight across and give a sense of scale to the surroundings.

[side note, this is why I don't like the Monorail bridge in Buena Vista Street, and yes, I know it was there to begin with]

Didn’t they essentially do this with DL’s New Orleans Square or am I misremembering?

 

[lazyboy97o]

There are kids under 4 who go to Disney, they can now ride the new family ride in Frontierland. Not to mention, people who don't like drops/coasters will be able to presumably ride both of these rides.

That would require Disney to be overselling the main ride…

I'm sure the capacity is marginally better on the left hand side of the park as Pirates + HM do the heavy lifting but between Space having better capacity than Big Thunder, Small World more than Pirates, etc it's not going to give the STARK difference I saw. People do not go to the left side of the park as much during that initial rush. This will certainly change that after Cars + Villians

Putting aside that these attractions open early, why is that a problem? Big new additions induce demand, so it’s not going to create some dramatic shift in the overall experience.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Didn’t they essentially do this with DL’s New Orleans Square or am I misremembering?

Yes, the Club 33 expansion where the exterior was modified with little care to accommodate interior changes.

 

[FettFan]

Its funny how for simply not liking ROA and being ready for Cars so far I’ve been called a Disney shill, have people tell me I’m too young to understand, have people say I don’t consider theme parks an art, have people say I only care about rides like six flags, say that art is objective and my opinion is objectively wrong, and that’s just off the top of my head. Clearly I think everyone can be a bit more civil when people disagree with them. I know I’ve gone on to say that I dislike certain opinions and that I wish we could move on from them but this is getting ridiculous

So if I have offended you, I do apologize as I never meant to. I am simply passionate about the parks and love what’s been happening with them

1. Nobody would have had a problem with this project had they built it in the vein of their original expansion pitch: Beyond Big Thunder Mountain from 2022. And as much as D'Amaro and his minions were talking about Beyond Big Thunder, it comes as no surprise that when Cars was officially announced at D23, they did their damnedest to hide the actual location until after D23 was over.

2. If you're so passionate about the parks, you should understand the Disney Difference and how TWDC these days has been flat out ignoring it for IP dumps and stripped budgets.

Cases in point: Guardians of the Galaxy is a fine roller coaster....for Hollywood Studios. It never should have been built at Epcot and was only shoved there with the nonsense justification that "Peter Quill went to Epcot when he was a kid!" because Ellen DeGeneres and Bill Nye were 20 years past their primes.
And yet, energy harvesting and consumption is far more prescient today than it was in 1982, meaning that an updated Universe of Energy still would have a place in Epcot.

What used to be the leader of the world in themed entertainment, the "Vacation Kingdom of the World" is now just a mish-mash of whatever will make a quick buck. It's turned its back on cohesive theming for a new lightning lane or popcorn bucket sale. They no longer view you as a valued guest or a customer....just a consumer.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

What’s stupid is thinking Florida’s statutory definitions are somehow relevant to a concept that exists beyond and untethered to Florida.

God thats worse then even some of your other inane comments.

His statement was that he could see MK....a property located in FLORIDA become a museum. Leaving aside the shear stupidly that a multi-national publicly traded company is going to turn one of its cash cows into a non-profit museum, the ONLY thing that would matter as to could MK ever be a museum is Florida law. No one cares about "concepts", amorphous feelings about what person A considers something to be or how Oregon or India looks at a museum. MK is in FLORIDA and is governed by FLORIDA law. No one cares about lazyboy's thoughts as to what a museum is or isn't, or what Train would like to see happen. Legally it can't happen, and that's leaving aside all the business practicality of the situation. Train wants to say he would like to see Disney do X, or Y, that's a personal opinion, that can be argued to the cows come home. Someone wants to say the could really see something happen that would be contrary to all financial an business stretch.....that's pretty out there and your starting to get a little afoul of logic and common sense, but ok, maybe, it is the internet after all. But you want to say you consider MK to be something that the law itself expressly says its not....then that's just BS.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Why argue if you have such a low opinion of what’s being said? The “ignore” button works better.

Why hit the ignore button? I mean what's the point of coming on line to a place where people exchange ideas, thoughts, discussions, and then decide, well I don't like 1 thing that 1 person had to say, and rather than discuss it, just hit ignore? Listen Train posts a ton on the board, somethings I find i agree with, some not. Just because in this one instance i think he did the equivalent of saying 2+2=5 doesn't mean i don't find interest in what he posts, or the threads in general. It seems lazy to just ignore things/posts you don't happen to like or disagree with.

Anyone on the board can decide what to respond to and what not to on their own. If you have to hide content that you don't agree with, you might as well not read the board at all, and just talk to yourself.

 

[lazyboy97o]

God thats worse then even some of your other inane comments.

His statement was that he could see MK....a property located in FLORIDA become a museum. Leaving aside the shear stupidly that a multi-national publicly traded company is going to turn one of its cash cows into a non-profit museum, the ONLY thing that would matter as to could MK ever be a museum is Florida law. No one cares about "concepts", amorphous feelings about what person A considers something to be or how Oregon or India looks at a museum. MK is in FLORIDA and is governed by FLORIDA law. No one cares about lazyboy's thoughts as to what a museum is or isn't, or what Train would like to see happen. Legally it can't happen, and that's leaving aside all the business practicality of the situation. Train wants to say he would like to see Disney do X, or Y, that's a personal opinion, that can be argued to the cows come home. Someone wants to say the could really see something happen that would be contrary to all financial an business stretch.....that's pretty out there and your starting to get a little afoul of logic and common sense, but ok, maybe, it is the internet after all. But you want to say you consider MK to be something that the law itself expressly says its not....then that's just BS.

The English language isn’t controlled by the state of Florida.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

If something is always going to be a weaker version of the actually beloved thing, why use up like 14 acres of land in the most visited theme park in the world??

Isn’t that what they are building? A weaker version of a beloved thing in California?

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Isn’t that what they are building? A weaker version of a beloved thing in California?

We will find out. Maybe, maybe not.

Piston Peak looks to be smaller than Cars Land in DCA but pound for point it could be just as good or better

And it is being created partly to get to Villains Land so hard to separate them, and the entire package could definitely be stronger than Cars Land in DCA. Might not, but willing to wait and see

 

[Donfan]

Isn’t that what they are building? A weaker version of a beloved thing in California?

We don't know that this one will be weaker. It might even be better. Until it is built, we have only heard opinions from people who don't want to see ROA and TSI removed. We should wait until it is built and we have ridden it to decide if it is weaker.

 

[Incomudro]

This is important because other Disney parks and theme parks have castles, some quite large and prominent, but they're not thought of as being like Magic Kingdom besides having rides and characters.

The spatial organization of the park is just as important as any of the actual buildings or landscaping that exist within it

Imagine if a large bridge with upstairs stores was built across Main Street, one so bulky in mass it blocked the view of the castle and you couldn't see past Uptown Jewelers. Maybe the bridge has lots of ornamentation and the windows are decorated with flower boxes and the whole thing is trimmed with popcorn lights. Wouldn't it look pretty? And wouldn't that extra retail space be good for business?

No, because it would make Main Street look substantially shorter than it is and throw off the scale of the existing buildings. No matter how nice the bridge looks in isolation, it would ruin the aesthetics of everything else.

This is what they are doing in Frontierland. Dropping a mass of rockwork, trees and buildings into a space you were meant to see straight across and give a sense of scale to the surroundings.

[side note, this is why I don't like the Monorail bridge in Buena Vista Street, and yes, I know it was there to begin with]

That's what concerns me about their ability to pull this off.
I'm afraid it might be too close to where we view it from for the forced perspective to work properly.
Had such an area been designed to be there from the start, sure - it could work great because that was the plan from the outset.
But here, they are shoehorning it in.
Will it work?
I really hope it does.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Sure so it's quite a few things actually!

1. I really like the Cars movies as a franchise. Well most of them anyway, I found it to a really enjoyable watch and I think its sad that they haven't done much with them in a while, this definitely has a chance to revitalize it a little bit atleast in the public mind.

2. I never liked the ROA all that much, atleast here in WDW. In Disneyland, it is an important part of its history. But WDW? Eh, its history but it was never as good as Disneyland's version. If something is always going to be a weaker version of the actually beloved thing, why use up like 14 acres of land in the most visited theme park in the world??

3. I've never liked TSI ever all that much. It's also suffering a similar problem with feeling like space that could be made much better. Now do I think there should be more play places in WDW? Absolutely, but I never really liked this one in particular for whatever reason. It didn't feel like a true play place to me or my family.

4. Having 3 big flashy rides in frontierland + finally an actual ride that young kids can do is great! It helps balance out the right side HEAVY park as rn we have Liberty Square with only 1 main headliner, Frontierland with 2, and Adventureland with 2. Meanwhile Tomorrowland atleast has 3 and Fantasyland has a TON. The park needs more balance and my suspicions were confirmed when I went to WDW and the whole left hand side of the park had walkons (except Tiana's) for the first hour or two while the other side of the park was terrible in waiting. While this was good for me, it meant that my day quickly slowed down once hitting the brick wall that is the right side of the park while the left side almost went "too fast"

5. This helps gives access to the Villians land section and seems to allow multiple entrances to reduce bottlenecking and create a decent flow of guests in this side of the park. There's 2 other MK attractions I would remove to also help this but thats neither here nor there

Ok so first let me say if you’re excited for this I’m glad for you and I hope you love it. Honestly once this is built I’m sure I’ll grow to like it and my son will hopefully enjoy the ride.

I will also add - my concern is that even the biggest fans of this move generally speak of the “pros” in terms of logistics. Better crowd management, inclusion of a favorite IP, underutilized attraction gone. I have yet to hear even fans of this idea say “I think this will look so much better” or “Thematically this is really a better fit”. My gripe is that I think there could have been a change that worked on both fronts. I would have liked Cars to have been a Speedway overlay and something more visually charming where Rivers was.

Again, though, happy for you if you like the change and I do hope many fans will enjoy the ride.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

And it is being created partly to get to Villains Land so hard to separate them

These projects can very much be separated.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

These projects can very much be separated.

If Villains (or something in the "beyond" area) wasn't happening I very much don't think Piston Peak would happen. So when comparing to the river and TSI I absolutely think you have to take them together

You can look a the specific elements of each in isolation if you want but not when comparing it to what it is being replaced

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

If Villains (or something in the "beyond" area) wasn't happening I very much don't think Piston Peak would happen. So when comparing to the river and TSI I absolutely think you have to take them together

But Villians doesn’t require piston peak to be built.

I continue to wonder if Encanto was going to go in the piston peak spot in the original “beyond” plan or was it going to connect coco and Villians?

 

[el_super]

So customers would have been dissatisfied and stopped coming if they kept the River? People would have been unhappy if they kept the River and put this somewhere else? The ONLY WAY Disney would have made money with a Cars project at WDW was to gut RoA? That is ridiculous.

It's the truth. They can't just infinitely expand the park. They can't keep attractions and areas around as museum pieces, and hope that the audience is willing to pay for continually running these rides and attractions they don't want. They can't just keep assuming people will be willing to walk miles past the main entrance to get to the newest, best rides.

They have so much land to expand the park and could have saved the river (if DLR could do it, so could WDW) but instead are choosing to take the easy approach and gut it.

They are taking an informed approach. They tried to do an update of the island/river at Disneyland... multiple times. They know exactly what their money bought them in utilization and guest satisfaction. They decided that spending the money on fixing the river and island at WDW wasn't worth the money, and that a larger scale project and new attractions would be a better use of their money. They're absolutely right.

I understand they are a business, but money should not be the only reason behind decision making.

Everything they do should be about money. You can, if you want, choose not to look at it that way. They routinely do things that cost them money but emphasize guest satisfaction and brand loyalty. They often go out of their way to preserve and celebrate their history. There are just limits to that. You can't run a theme park full of museum pieces unless you can keep people paying the high entry prices. And high entry prices are justified by new expansions and attractions.

Far better to have a park that changes and adapts than none at all.

Saying it’s detailed and cohesive is also making a big assumption when we actually have no idea of how this is going to turn out.

When the river was built, Big Thunder wasn't there. Tiana's wasn't there. Villain's Land wasn't being planned. Today's Imagineers have the knowledge of how the river exists today and what they want to do in the future, so of course any new project is going to be better integrated than what has organically sprung up over 50+ years.

 

[MisterPenguin]

It's been indicated to us that what is the current lay-down yards beyond the RR berm was an expansion pad that could have been accessed by some sort of path by the Frontierland RR station.

Also, IaSW could have been sacrificed instead of RoA to access the back end of RoA and that lay-down yard expansion pad.

So, no, RoA didn't have to go.

It's going because the powers that be wanted it to go. There was no necessity about it.

 

[JD80]

But Villians doesn’t require piston peak to be built.

I continue to wonder if Encanto was going to go in the piston peak spot in the original “beyond” plan or was it going to connect coco and Villians?

I always tell my clients I can do anything for them it just requires time and money. That time and money may or may not be worth it.

That being said, keeping the front of ROA but putting something behind it doesn't make sense from a lot of different perspectives.