It probably is. They axed all of the original Celestial Park entertainment weeks ago. This is likely just a band-aid solution brought about by them being so unsure of what they want to do.
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Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Now Open!
- Thread starter Bob Harlem
- Start date
OrlandoRising
Well-Known Member
Having actually visited Epic several times, I'm not saying any of this entertainment is great, but with the exception of the shabby-looking poem setup, I don't see any real issue with stuff like a band playing or the violin guy in Celestial Park. It felt similar to things at World Showcase that have no real cultural tie-in.
And if this is the best criticism posters here can muster about Epic Universe, you're reaching.
I'm sorry, but how willfully ignorant can you possibly be? You're going to complain about one photo showing a restaurant and ignore all the other shots from this park?
Agent H
Well-Known Member
I was referring to the celestial park which I haven’t seen anything from that blows me away yet.
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Tom Morrow
Well-Known Member
Celestial Park is definitely trying to be a lot of things at once:
- The one thing that unifies the four portal worlds into one concept.
- The transition between them and the park's literal hub
- A "World Showcase-esque" hangout spot/night time spot
- UOR South Campus's "CityWalk", in a way
While also having a mishmash of several aestetics: celestial, greek, nautical, and Victorian boardwalk
So it's no surprise that the end result might seem a little bit generic to some. However, I believe that it works. It doesn't feel like any other theme park area I have seen, and the lighter, more vague mish mash theming serves as a stark contrast to the portal worlds and a "pallet cleanser" of sorts between them.
- The one thing that unifies the four portal worlds into one concept.
- The transition between them and the park's literal hub
- A "World Showcase-esque" hangout spot/night time spot
- UOR South Campus's "CityWalk", in a way
While also having a mishmash of several aestetics: celestial, greek, nautical, and Victorian boardwalk
So it's no surprise that the end result might seem a little bit generic to some. However, I believe that it works. It doesn't feel like any other theme park area I have seen, and the lighter, more vague mish mash theming serves as a stark contrast to the portal worlds and a "pallet cleanser" of sorts between them.
Centauri Space Station
Well-Known Member
WDW has lots of streetmosphere:
MK- Barber shop quartet, Casey’s piano player, Main Street Philharmonic
Epcot- Mariachi cobre, Groovin Alps, Sergio, Voices of Liberty, Matsuriza, Atlas fusion, Command Performance, Bodh'akton, JAMMITORS, and Forces of Nature.
DAK- Divine, Winged Encounters, Viva Gaia Street Band, Kora Tinga Tinga, Buridika, Beats and Strings, Eco-Rhythmics, “Songs You’ll Dig”
Sir_Cliff
Well-Known Member
An interesting video and I think the point about inflated expectations is salient in understanding why a lot of people feel underwhelmed with what they're seeing of Epic. It is, again, a signal to those talking about its coming success that managing expectations ultimately works out better than establishing almost impossibly high standards of success.
One thing that did strike me about the video is the continuing tendency to grade Universal on a curve with this park, which I think should make the company consider whether they want Universal Orlando to ever be considered on the same level as Walt Disney World in terms of quality. While the video was quite even-handed, the concluding commentary suggested issues regarding sight-lines were "nit-picking" while, in the video itself, he raises how the posters in Epic look more appropriate for the time and place than those in Tiana's Bayou Adventure (a very reasonable critique). His (surprisingly positive) review of Tiana came up next on my feed, and I did note that he spent a while explaining why he did not like the jazz radio broadcast background music in the queue as he felt it clashed with the timeframe of Frontierland on the other side of the railway tracks.
If we all except it is valid to critique Disney theming down to that level, surely it is also valid to critique, for example, the un-themed backs of Wizarding World being visible across Cosmic Park or a modern hotel looming over Dark Universe. I honestly think it would be better for Universal if people held them to the same standards.
Disney Analyst
Well-Known Member
Okay so I’ve been informed pretty much all the offerings in Celestial Park are temporary. Which is why it all feels… off.
They cut all the original entertainment offerings, and this is a bandaid solution as they have gone back to square one.
Clearly they weren’t sure what to do originally, and still are figuring it out.
They cut all the original entertainment offerings, and this is a bandaid solution as they have gone back to square one.
Clearly they weren’t sure what to do originally, and still are figuring it out.
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OrlandoRising
Well-Known Member
Rather than this being a sign of Universal being held to different standards, I think it’s about Disney diehards bringing their ultra-nitpicking sightline concerns over to Universal — and Universal fans (and the vast majority of guests) just don’t care about that nitpicking.
Sir_Cliff
Well-Known Member
In the case of the video I was talking about, it was a person "nitpicking" a Disney attraction and then suggesting Epic should be enjoyed without "nitpicking" far bigger issues. In cases like that, you clearly see both companies being held to different standards.
As to whether the majority of guests care about these issues, I would just suggest that the proof is kind of in the pudding as Disney built their business and became the industry leader precisely by caring about those issues. It is certainly fine for parks to compete for different markets and position themselves differently, but Universal's strategy is unusual in that they use the same language about immersion in their promotional materials and put in the effort to rival Disney in some areas and attractions when it comes to immersion and detail. Then they just ignore the same concerns in other parts of the park. If the vast majority guests don't care about that stuff, then why do they bother with it at all?
James Alucobond
Well-Known Member
You're on a small sub-forum of a board called WDWMagic. It should not be a surprise that Disney is the driving motivator for member registration and that it often serves as a comparative framework for theme park discussion here.
DarkMetroid567
Well-Known Member
There was a point in time where you couldn’t say anything negative about Disney and the company would get coddled. Corless was one of the only major characters who cut against this grain and got a lot of hate for this reason (among others, of course).
Now, it’s become more commonplace to criticize Disney but theme park enthusiasts have learned the wrong lesson and think they just needed a new corporate daddy. Now Universal can do no wrong and can’t be criticized. Any criticism is “nitpicking” or “but Disney” or “technical rehearsals!!!” or “just have fun!!”
It’s great to love the parks and never use a critical lens; after all, you don’t need to. But the infantilization of Disney is exactly what led to Disney being able to do whatever it wants and charge whatever it wants — and it’s weird how people won’t recognize that Universal will just as easily do the same.
Don't forget those currently angry with WDW and Disney for various reasons, some verging on derangement syndrome.
That group has been holding out on Universal, and EU in particular, as being a Disney-killer. And they are the ones holding Uni up to ridiculously high and hypocritical standards in an outpouring of anticipatory schadenfreude by ignoring any Uni shortfalls.
We can come up with a list of criteria in which to judge theme parks. And both Disney and Uni get great -- and sometimes poor scores -- on that list. They both do great things, and then both have blind spots.
But we live in a black-and-white, all-or-nothing world in which people feel the need to take sides rather than have an honest critique of both sides.
That group has been holding out on Universal, and EU in particular, as being a Disney-killer. And they are the ones holding Uni up to ridiculously high and hypocritical standards in an outpouring of anticipatory schadenfreude by ignoring any Uni shortfalls.
We can come up with a list of criteria in which to judge theme parks. And both Disney and Uni get great -- and sometimes poor scores -- on that list. They both do great things, and then both have blind spots.
But we live in a black-and-white, all-or-nothing world in which people feel the need to take sides rather than have an honest critique of both sides.
Hey... there were originally violinists in Darkmoor as part of its streetmosphere. Did they all get reassigned to Celestial Park to make up for cancelling its streetmosphere?
Agent H
Well-Known Member
The funny thing is Corliss still gets hate because according to some people he “sold out “
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
You’d think if sightlines were just not a concern then they’d tell Universal Creative to stop wasting money on sightline studies.
flynnibus
Premium Member
He gets hate because he was an jacka.. and liar who would trample over anyone to just pump his own product above all else. This notion that he was some against the grain thing is long after his reputation was soured and the field got too crowded for him. Make no mistake, all those folks were building money making machines through their dabblings with travel agencies and other adjacent stuff so pumping the engine was above all else.
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OrlandoRising
Well-Known Member
The Darkmoor violinists are still there.
Tom Morrow
Well-Known Member
Fifteen years ago, prior to Hogsmeade, there was a common agreement in the theme park enthusiast community that Disney was top dog and it didn't seem like any other theme park chain was capable of matching them. Obviously things have changed, and now Universal gives them a serious run for their money, while Disney keeps making decisions that stray from the formulas that made them the leader in the first place. However, I agree with @DarkMetroid567 in that many theme park enthusiasts have taken the wrong lesson from this shift, in thinking that you must pick a "side". We all started out loving Disney, and were on Disney's "side", but now we're jaded and disagreeing with many of their decisions. So the answer is obviously that we be on Universal's "side" and go all in, right?
This tribalism way of thinking is beyond tiresome and honestly detrimental to the message of what we want out of premium-priced theme parks - which should be wanting the best possible product. Handwaving caring about things that equate to high quality like good sightlines as something "only Disney die-hards care about" is some serious mental gymnastics to avoid admitting that Disney may in fact still be better at some things.
Let's say Epic Universe, instead, ended up with the best, most immaculate sightlines out of any theme park in the world. The "Universal is always better than Disney" crowd wouldn't be saying "I'm not sure why they bothered, because we don't care about this." They would be saying "Take that, Disney!"
Both Disney and Universal have their individual strengths and weaknesses. It is constructive to discuss both.
Side note, I also want to once again dispel the notion that I, for one, am a "Disney die-hard". I'm not, I just love amusement and theme parks and I like them to be good. You know what my actual favorite park of all time is? Cedar Point.
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