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Survivor 48 Discussion Thread
- Thread starter PUSH
- Start date
Overall, this ended up being a good episode. But I do have some criticisms (shocker, shocker).
Let's get those out of the way first... I'm tired of the tiered challenges. It takes so much time in the episode. I'd rather see camp life.
Along the same lines, I'm tired of the random mini-games to lose votes. That was not entertaining. And ultimately, Star losing her vote took away an opportunity for the minority to flip on the majority. That has happened so many times... losing votes does not create more chaotic gameplay. Instead, it creates more conservative gameplay, because players don't know what to expect. They don't know who will have votes, or it takes away a vote they could have used. And when you split the tribe up all the time, they don't have a chance to make moves in this 26-day game. So they end up playing it safe and aren't allowed opportunities to make big moves.
Now on to the good... the conflict between David and Kyle was so compelling. I'm sorry, but David put me off big time tonight. He was totally hypocritical. He was questioning Shauhin/Kamilla and Kyle/Kamilla, saying they couldn't bring in another person. But... he just added Mary to "Strong 5". What gives him the right to do that and then act the way he did when someone else wants to do the same thing? It felt like he's someone who's used to being in charge and getting his way, and he doesn't allow others to have thoughts. And I'm sorry... you can't play victim as if all the strong men have been treated unfairly throughout all of Survivor history. The way he talked to Chrissy was gross. Chrissy's demographic has been the group that's been treated unfairly... Dawn, Chrissy Hofbeck, Julie R, Monica, Carolyn R... the list goes on.
Okay, I know I said that was the good, and followed it up with a lot of bad, but all that to say... this is classic Survivor. This is why we watch. These social dynamics and conflicts are so interesting. David clearly feels slighted, but is also lacking social awareness. Kyle pushes back, because he doesn't want to lose his strategic leverage with Kamilla. Joe speaks up, but ultimately falls in line. Kamilla's neck is on the line and chooses to trust in her alliance with Kyle. All of this is based on social strategy, not twists, advantages, or challenges. It's what has brought us back for 48 seasons. We need more opportunities for this, not less.
I am glad that Kamilla stayed. I love her alliance with Kyle. Kyle is my favorite this season, with Kamilla a big part of that. At this point, I think one of them will win. I just hope tonight didn't put too big of a target on them. I think tonight might ultimately kickstart the coup against David, though. I think Joe will start to question him and fall in with Kyle. Eva will follow Joe. Shauhin is closer to Kyle and Joe. Star is closer to Eva. It just seems like a perfect time to take out David or Mary. I'll be interested to see where this all goes.
And look at that... I was able to ramble on about that episode because of the interesting social dynamics.
Here are my updated rankings, previous rankings in parentheses...
Tier 1: Top Contenders
1. Kyle (2)
2. Kamilla (1)
3. Shauhin (3)
4. Joe (4)
Tier 2: Good Chance
5. Eva (5)
Tier 3: Possible
6. Mary (8)
7. David (7)
Tier 4: Little to No Chance
8. Mitch (6, was in Tier 2)
9. Star (9)
Let's get those out of the way first... I'm tired of the tiered challenges. It takes so much time in the episode. I'd rather see camp life.
Along the same lines, I'm tired of the random mini-games to lose votes. That was not entertaining. And ultimately, Star losing her vote took away an opportunity for the minority to flip on the majority. That has happened so many times... losing votes does not create more chaotic gameplay. Instead, it creates more conservative gameplay, because players don't know what to expect. They don't know who will have votes, or it takes away a vote they could have used. And when you split the tribe up all the time, they don't have a chance to make moves in this 26-day game. So they end up playing it safe and aren't allowed opportunities to make big moves.
Now on to the good... the conflict between David and Kyle was so compelling. I'm sorry, but David put me off big time tonight. He was totally hypocritical. He was questioning Shauhin/Kamilla and Kyle/Kamilla, saying they couldn't bring in another person. But... he just added Mary to "Strong 5". What gives him the right to do that and then act the way he did when someone else wants to do the same thing? It felt like he's someone who's used to being in charge and getting his way, and he doesn't allow others to have thoughts. And I'm sorry... you can't play victim as if all the strong men have been treated unfairly throughout all of Survivor history. The way he talked to Chrissy was gross. Chrissy's demographic has been the group that's been treated unfairly... Dawn, Chrissy Hofbeck, Julie R, Monica, Carolyn R... the list goes on.
Okay, I know I said that was the good, and followed it up with a lot of bad, but all that to say... this is classic Survivor. This is why we watch. These social dynamics and conflicts are so interesting. David clearly feels slighted, but is also lacking social awareness. Kyle pushes back, because he doesn't want to lose his strategic leverage with Kamilla. Joe speaks up, but ultimately falls in line. Kamilla's neck is on the line and chooses to trust in her alliance with Kyle. All of this is based on social strategy, not twists, advantages, or challenges. It's what has brought us back for 48 seasons. We need more opportunities for this, not less.
I am glad that Kamilla stayed. I love her alliance with Kyle. Kyle is my favorite this season, with Kamilla a big part of that. At this point, I think one of them will win. I just hope tonight didn't put too big of a target on them. I think tonight might ultimately kickstart the coup against David, though. I think Joe will start to question him and fall in with Kyle. Eva will follow Joe. Shauhin is closer to Kyle and Joe. Star is closer to Eva. It just seems like a perfect time to take out David or Mary. I'll be interested to see where this all goes.
And look at that... I was able to ramble on about that episode because of the interesting social dynamics.
Here are my updated rankings, previous rankings in parentheses...
Tier 1: Top Contenders
1. Kyle (2)
2. Kamilla (1)
3. Shauhin (3)
4. Joe (4)
Tier 2: Good Chance
5. Eva (5)
Tier 3: Possible
6. Mary (8)
7. David (7)
Tier 4: Little to No Chance
8. Mitch (6, was in Tier 2)
9. Star (9)
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
Players even said as much, there wasn't really enough time to have those fulsome discussions.
Chrissy gave me a vibe of someone who was cast in the first 10 seasons and accidently travelled forward in time to land here. Maybe it's the middle aged mom who got off the couch thing or just speaking her mind instead of keeping everything close to the vest.
Previews aside I think we'll see at least a few predictable votes.
I agree that David was off putting but I appreciate his strategy. It's true, big guys are used to win challenges pre-merge and then often become targets. Forming that alliance has merit.
The Kyle and Kamilla secret alliance in a season where duos and alliances are obvious is making for great TV, and I can't wait to see how it all shakes out.
I feel bad for Mitch because he's trying but it's clear he has no power. I think he killed his chances as well when he described taking a pay cut so he could teach and help kids by showing how he dealt with adversity. No one wants to sit next to him at the end.
A good chunk of this cast feels like early-season casting. David, Joe, and Eva all feel old-school to me. David had barely even seen the show. In his casting process, he didn't even know who Jeff was when he was told he'd be interviewed by him. Joe was a fan, but not a huge one. His sister was the bigger fan, and he only applied because she passed away. Star also feels somewhat old-school.
There aren't a lot of game bots this season. If so, they were voted off early. Chrissy even said she thinks super fans are ruining the game in her preseason interviews. So the fact that she was voted off because she wasn't playing a "loyal" game is crazy.
I find episodes like these so much more entertaining than the ones that rely on long challenges and journeys. We saw a LOT of camp life and social dynamics, which I love. I will say, they may have gone a little overboard with it... we were seein essentially the same confessionals multiple times, but I think it was all part of the build up that led to it. It showed everyone coming to the realization that David needed to go, at their own time. It didn't happen all at once.
I think Kyle and Shauhin did a great job of planting the seeds for the past couple episodes. But David did himself no favors. He is not tactful in how he deals with people. He isolated Kyle, Joe, and Shauhin, which are supposed to be three of his biggest allies. Ultimately, he was right in what he said, but he was also doing the exact same thing with Mary. But he isn't able to self-reflect and realize that. He definitely has a large ego that blinded him from what others were thinking. It showed when he kept saying he should have won that. And it wasn't necessarily what he said, but how he said it. It implied that he thought he was better than Joe, and Joe only won because David beat himself. Even if that's true, you can't vocalize that. That's not how you win socially, whether it's in the game of Survivor or in life.
It was interesting how Shauhin picked Joe of all people to wake up when Eva left camp. Everyone knows they're a tight duo who will tell each other everything. Was Shauhin trying to stir the pot? Was he just unsure of what to do and needed to tell someone? I'm not quite sure what his strategy was. Regardless, Eva unknowingly made the right decision to tell everyone. I imagine it would have gone a lot different had she not told Shauhin. He would have blown that up.
Kyle and Kamilla remain as the silent duo. Even after tonight, they got what they both wanted. However, it ended up seeming like a Joe/Eva decision, rather than Kyle/Kamilla's doing. That could hurt them in the end if they're unable to convince others it was actually their plan, but I think they'd be able to.
Going forward, Kyle and Kamilla still seem like they're in the majority alliance, but also on the bottom of that alliance, where they won't be the target of the minority group. I don't think Mitch or Star are going to go for them. I think they'll aim for Joe and Eva, which is actually what the previews showed. They still seem to be in the middle.
Taking out David likely opens the door for this season. I think there are many more options for everybody now that you don't have David's thumb on everyone. However, I think Kyle and Kamilla are the only ones at this point with multiple good options.
Here are my updated winner rankings (previous rankings in parentheses)...
Tier 1: Top Contenders
1. Kyle (2)
2. Joe (4)
3. Kamilla (2)
4. Shauhin (3)
Tier 2: Good Chance
5. Eva (5)
Tier 3: Possible
None
Tier 4: Little to No Chance
6. Mary (6, was in Tier 3)
7. Mitch (8)
8. Star (9)
I think Kyle and Shauhin did a great job of planting the seeds for the past couple episodes. But David did himself no favors. He is not tactful in how he deals with people. He isolated Kyle, Joe, and Shauhin, which are supposed to be three of his biggest allies. Ultimately, he was right in what he said, but he was also doing the exact same thing with Mary. But he isn't able to self-reflect and realize that. He definitely has a large ego that blinded him from what others were thinking. It showed when he kept saying he should have won that. And it wasn't necessarily what he said, but how he said it. It implied that he thought he was better than Joe, and Joe only won because David beat himself. Even if that's true, you can't vocalize that. That's not how you win socially, whether it's in the game of Survivor or in life.
It was interesting how Shauhin picked Joe of all people to wake up when Eva left camp. Everyone knows they're a tight duo who will tell each other everything. Was Shauhin trying to stir the pot? Was he just unsure of what to do and needed to tell someone? I'm not quite sure what his strategy was. Regardless, Eva unknowingly made the right decision to tell everyone. I imagine it would have gone a lot different had she not told Shauhin. He would have blown that up.
Kyle and Kamilla remain as the silent duo. Even after tonight, they got what they both wanted. However, it ended up seeming like a Joe/Eva decision, rather than Kyle/Kamilla's doing. That could hurt them in the end if they're unable to convince others it was actually their plan, but I think they'd be able to.
Going forward, Kyle and Kamilla still seem like they're in the majority alliance, but also on the bottom of that alliance, where they won't be the target of the minority group. I don't think Mitch or Star are going to go for them. I think they'll aim for Joe and Eva, which is actually what the previews showed. They still seem to be in the middle.
Taking out David likely opens the door for this season. I think there are many more options for everybody now that you don't have David's thumb on everyone. However, I think Kyle and Kamilla are the only ones at this point with multiple good options.
Here are my updated winner rankings (previous rankings in parentheses)...
Tier 1: Top Contenders
1. Kyle (2)
2. Joe (4)
3. Kamilla (2)
4. Shauhin (3)
Tier 2: Good Chance
5. Eva (5)
Tier 3: Possible
None
Tier 4: Little to No Chance
6. Mary (6, was in Tier 3)
7. Mitch (8)
8. Star (9)
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
Yeah, sometimes it's nice to see the how and why a vote happens. No hiding the truth so we'd be blindsided as an audience.
I couldn't see Mitch going anywhere given his minimal story this episode. He seems the type to get a fallen hero moment if and when it happens. The story of the highly arrogant David having his fall from grace was just too good for the producers to pass up.
Eva in particular seems like she's coasting. The fact that no one is targeting the one player with a public idol suggests she's not seen as a huge threat. She really should play it sooner rather than later lest she become a target for that reason. No one wants someone with an idol in the final five, putting themselves in a potential 1 in 3 chance of going home.
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
A good point I just read online is that Kamilla could be part of a minority insurgence next week, in which she can protect Kyle, just as he did for her last week. That puts them in a very strong position.
If we keep this up, Survivor 48 will go down as the worst season of the new era. The premerge was really fun, but the post-merge has been a huge snooze fest, minus the David boot.
There's really not much to write about. Most of the episode was filler. Maybe it's setting up a bigger Joe blindside soon, but who knows? I did think Kyle's ploy to secretly help Kamilla and the minority alliance was high level strategy and gameplay. Their position is so unique, and I love it. I really want one of them to win, and I feel pretty good about that at this point.
I heard a good point in a podcast this week... is it possible that Joe gets to the end, plays the loyalty card, and gets rolled over doing so, similar to Mike from 42? I don't think he has fans in anyone he's put on the jury so far. Cedric is a wildcard. Chrissy hated that alliance. David thinks Joe backstabbed him. Star seemed disgruntled going out. I guess it depends on the rest of the season, but it's a point I hadn't thought about.
Hopefully this season picks up, because it's been a struggle. Here are my updated winner rankings, not much has changed this season...
Tier 1: Top Contenders
1. Kyle (1)
2. Joe (2)
3. Kamilla (3)
4. Shauhin (4)
Tier 2: Good Chance
None
Tier 3: Possible
5. Eva (5, was in Tier 2)
6. Mary (6, was in Tier 4)
Tier 4: Little to No Chance
7. Mitch (7)
There's really not much to write about. Most of the episode was filler. Maybe it's setting up a bigger Joe blindside soon, but who knows? I did think Kyle's ploy to secretly help Kamilla and the minority alliance was high level strategy and gameplay. Their position is so unique, and I love it. I really want one of them to win, and I feel pretty good about that at this point.
I heard a good point in a podcast this week... is it possible that Joe gets to the end, plays the loyalty card, and gets rolled over doing so, similar to Mike from 42? I don't think he has fans in anyone he's put on the jury so far. Cedric is a wildcard. Chrissy hated that alliance. David thinks Joe backstabbed him. Star seemed disgruntled going out. I guess it depends on the rest of the season, but it's a point I hadn't thought about.
Hopefully this season picks up, because it's been a struggle. Here are my updated winner rankings, not much has changed this season...
Tier 1: Top Contenders
1. Kyle (1)
2. Joe (2)
3. Kamilla (3)
4. Shauhin (4)
Tier 2: Good Chance
None
Tier 3: Possible
5. Eva (5, was in Tier 2)
6. Mary (6, was in Tier 4)
Tier 4: Little to No Chance
7. Mitch (7)