MK Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[TrainsOfDisney]

It’s been established on these boards that Disney has wanted the river gone for quite some time.

“Disney” doesn’t want the River gone - it’s a huge company with many people in charge.

Eisner wanted the treehouse gone and Tony Baxter offered Tarzan as a solution. Eisner listened. Aren’t we glad he did?

That’s what’s wrong - Iger and company don’t get it and think they know best. If John Lasiter were still involved we wouldn’t be getting this.

 

[Streetway Again]

I think you can care and push back while also understanding that time moves on and with it comes new generations who care about different things. Personally, I think removing RoA is one of the dumbest moves they have ever made but I think it is important to recognize that those of us who feel that way, while likely a majority on this board, are a minority overall.

Yes. It sucks to admit, but we are the smallest group at wdw. The ones who pay the bills at wdw are the tourists. And the tourists/gp will probably love cars way more. Disneyland needs
AP’S way more, so more often, they cater to them.

And we cannot stop the march of time. No matter how hard we try. As pessimistic as this sounds, this is the way things are now, probably for a long time. We should still fight back on these bad changes, but we need to accept the best we will get is compromises from Disney, like what’s happening at DAK with tropical Americas.

 

[Coaster Lover]

Speaking of Eddie

I mean, if you're going to spend this much to reroute ROA, might as well also copy the set-up at DLP by extending the track layout of BTMRR to go under the river and building a new station on the opposite side of the river and eliminating the need for any sort of (permanent) bridges to "Thunder Mountain Island"...

 

[Orange is the new Red]

So do we have a very early look at the track layout here?

View attachment 847794

So what are we looking at here? Is the “mountain range enclosed”? This looks potentially awesome…. It also doesn’t look cheap!….Need more info… Can anyone elaborate.

 

[Gusey]

“Disney” doesn’t want the River gone - it’s a huge company with many people in charge.

Eisner wanted the treehouse gone and Tony Baxter offered Tarzan as a solution. Eisner listened. Aren’t we glad he did?

That’s what’s wrong - Iger and company don’t get it and think they know best. If John Lasiter were still involved we wouldn’t be getting this.

You do know that's literally happened again recently with this set of Imagineers. Chapek wanted Tarzan's Treehouse gone and Kim Irvine managed to get it to stay in the form of Adventureland Treehouse. The current Imagineers know what battles to pick. Removing MK's underutilized RoA for a 4 ride expansion and easy access to another expansion for when it's needed is not a battle their going to win

 

[JohnD]

What E ticket is this replacing?
It’s an expansion… get over it!

Expansions imply beyond existing property. This is replacing an area already in MK, notably a portion of ROA containing Tom Sawyer Island and Liberty Belle riverboat (I pointed out that its unclear what is happening to the upper half), regardless of "E ticket". Likewise, with the exception of the Monsters, Inc. coaster that EXPANDS into the HS parking lot, the rest of Monsters, Inc. land is a replacement of the former Muppets Courtyard. I'm simply stating facts.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

As far as I’m concerned, the least problematic thing about this whole thing is the ride system. There are plenty of rides across property and even in the same parks that are basic/duplicated ride systems that are still considered some of the best attractions around because of their storytelling. So to find out there’s a track and it’s not some innovative outdoor trackless ride that would probably be an operational nightmare is no big deal at all to me.

Like most if not all of the refurbs/new builds dating back to maybe FEA, the cars ride feels like a display of the carelessness of this era of Imagineering at work. Especially so this time, because of the demolition of an aspect of the MK that displays how Disney (used to) set itself apart from your run of the mill theme park. I start to question my own interpretation of the Disney parks, with the way I feel like they miss the mark and misunderstand the parks so often lately. After all, I’m not the one making the big bucks and big decisions, so maybe I’m just wrong.

I was in the minority when this was announced, in that I welcomed Cars - since they insist on needing some sort of IP, and did not think the rumoured Coco (or was it Encanto?) in that area would have been any better of a fit. I still am so disappointed in what we’re losing to get it though.

 

[Charlie The Chatbox Ghost]

Yes there was ways to keep some of the water but Disney did not want to do that.

It is Disney’s intent to erase RoA, TSI and the riverboat.

In time, Frontierland, Liberty square, HoP will be erased; destroyed and replaced.

If they want to get rid of Frontierland, why did they just redo the Country Bears and still have it be country/western music? Why are they making a western themed lounge? Why'd they say that Cars would specifically be a part of Frontierland? They even made a Front-tire land joke. They also just added some new animated windows to Liberty Square, and with HoP down for refurb it'll be here for at least four more years.

I'm against the removal of the rivers but I don't think Frontierland itself is going anywhere. Liberty Square too, it'd take way too much money and effort to redo both those lands, especially when everything new being added to them matches the theme they currently have. It'd make no sense to spend the money on these projects only to then change the lands entirely and demolish/redo everything in them. Frontierland at least is just being redefined as "the American wilderness" as a whole instead of just cowboy-related stuff. I could see Liberty Square becoming Sleepy Hollow, keeping all the same buildings and just replacing HoP with something.

 

[Orange is the new Red]

Expansions imply beyond existing property. This is replacing an area already in MK, notably a portion of ROA containing Tom Sawyer Island and Liberty Belle riverboat (I pointed out that its unclear what is happening to the upper half), regardless of "E ticket". Likewise, with the exception of the Monsters, Inc. coaster that EXPANDS into the HS parking lot, the rest of Monsters, Inc. land is a replacement of the former Muppets Courtyard. I'm simply stating facts.

Huh? For me it’s an expansion.

 

[donaldtoo]

Claimed it was patently false but then just said “damn the AIA” and that Disney has other process. You keep saying your firm did it but then ramble. I never said modeling isn’t part of the design process. You said it was a specific phase but despite being aspect multiple times still haven’t said where it would slot in between schematic design, design development and construction documentation.

OK, if I hafta’ “slot it in” it would be between schematic design and design development, as our firm dealt with it. Other than it being already included in the upcharge for Revit, it was a time-consuming extra process that the client was charged for separately. It was in our contracts as such, but, unfortunately, I don’t have a picture of one of our firms contracts.
Schematic design was just that. Rough, but cleaned up, legible and understandable sketches and such, from which the client could make informed decisions.
The partners sold 3D modeling as an aside, as in “For a bit extra, we can mass out a nice 3D model for you before proceeding further, if you like…!”
It was a business decision by the firm.
Some clients didn’t care, but the vast majority opted for it as an extra phase, even if the project/CDs weren’t being produced via Revit.
And yes, all 4 partners were AIA, along with several others in the firm, many in multiple states.

 

[Charlie The Chatbox Ghost]

That seems…kinda short.

If you're asking me, depending on the scale here, it seems like they could just be putting it on TSI itself without changing much? I'd be fine with it if that meant the rivers and riverboat were staying. TSI is cool and all, and it's nice that it's a place for kids to run around and explore, but I'd sacrifice it if it meant the rivers could stay. The atmosphere + air cooling the rivers provide is way too valuable imo.

 

[MrPromey]

and most importantly in a cost effective way

Especially since it appears that nearly all of the "new" Monster's land, save for the ride itself, will be nothing but a reskinning of what's already there.

The land itself is no expansion at all.

I guess it'll look like something new to most people since they're tearing down something in the middle of it, though.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Ummm... Eddie... If it's great to hear that RoA might not be going away...

Then why are you offering an alternative to something that's not going away?...

 

[Disstevefan1]

If they want to get rid of Frontierland, why did they just redo the Country Bears and still have it be country/western music? Why are they making a western themed lounge? Why'd they say that Cars would specifically be a part of Frontierland? They even made a Front-tire land joke. They also just added some new animated windows to Liberty Square, and with HoP down for refurb it'll be here for at least four more years.

I'm against the removal of the rivers but I don't think Frontierland itself is going anywhere. Liberty Square too, it'd take way too much money and effort to redo both those lands, especially when everything new being added to them matches the theme they currently have. It'd make no sense to spend the money on these projects only to then change the lands entirely and demolish/redo everything in them. Frontierland at least is just being redefined as "the American wilderness" as a whole instead of just cowboy-related stuff. I could see Liberty Square becoming Sleepy Hollow, keeping all the same buildings and just replacing HoP with something, but even that's not likely in this current climate. Disney has "switched sides" effectively, given all the stuff that happened with Win or Lose (which is a great series, but the changes to characters last minute certainly killed any good will the public has) and their policy changes in terms of hiring and such, so I don't see a world where they remove anything "American", especially when doing so would likely make them a target. DeSantis was annoying enough to deal with, but having to deal with the whole administration? Disney doesn't want that, so they're gonna appeal to them instead of actually having a spine. Frontierland and Liberty Square aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

It will be interesting to see if/when the Frontierland signs come back what they say.

 

[KDM31091]

I’m not even sure the number of people who disagree with this decision is that small. More than most any other Disney decision, all I’ve seen online is backlash and at best lukewarm excitement. I doubt it will matter, but to me this is an enormous mistake, and worst of all not even a true expansion. We lose 2 attractions and gain 2. We seem to always be trading off attractions in a resort that has the “blessing of size”. I think that’s my biggest issue overall.

 

[MisterPenguin]

How wide do you think a decent walkway actually needs to be?

How wide are indecent walkways??!

 

[Streetway Again]

How wide are indecent walkways??!

69 feet.

 

[JohnD]

Huh? For me it’s an expansion.

I can see that. An "expansion" would be beyond existing property (i.e. other side of the railroad.) Utilizing existing property is not an expansion but a reconfiguration.

 

[phillip9698]

Because if you want to go see Colorado... You can just go to Colorado. The whole point of Frontierland is that it's supposed to be an escape to a time and place that doesn't exist anymore. Changing it to a "western US land" isn't an escape, it's lame soulless modernism garbage and one reason why Disney Parks are in such bad shape because most of the current group of un-Imagineers are thinking along the same lines as you are. It'll inevitably be sterile and lack the soul and originalism of Frontierland which is the problem with virtually everything churned out by Disney in the last decade or so.

God, one would think there isn’t another castle park in the US that does still have the river, a better version I might add.

What’s wrong with the parks having some differences.

 

[Orange is the new Red]

I can see that. An "expansion" would be beyond existing property (i.e. other side of the railroad.) Utilizing existing property is not an expansion but a reconfiguration.

Semantics…