DHS Toy Story Land expansion announced for Disney's Hollywood Studios

[MrPromey]

Using announcements to measure anything is ridiculous.

I totally agree. I'm just trying to work within the flimsy framework of the original argument posed to me but what they're trying do here is compare when Disney announced they were building AK (1995 which is where everyone is getting three years) to when people caught Universal working on Epic.

Again, I agree announcements as a measuring point are ridiculous but I think using the announcement of one park against when the internet figured out work on another had started is even more ridiculous.

I mean, apples to apples, right?

Do you disagree?

 

[GoofGoof]

I don't know. Seems like they managed to knock the Illuminations Minions Land and Dreamworks land out pretty fast.

Those aren't whole theme parks and chunks of both were re-theming of existing structures but they're both active sections (particularly the minions) of an existing park impacting the work that could be done and while not major in scale, a whole lot more involved than an outdoor shelter like this.

Anyway, Universal announced they were building a new park on August 1st, 2019 and their official opening date is May 22nd 2025 so I'm not sure the math is mathing in your statement. You might want to go re-run those numbers.

Not my math. I was quoting another post but I assume the timeline is for actual construction not time from formal announcement to open. Either way, I actually think given Covid and the lasting issues with labor shortages that 6 years is pretty good for a whole new park on new land. Even so, it’s still almost twice as long as it took to construct IOA in the 90s. It just takes longer to build stuff today. I don’t know the timelines for Minions or Dreamworks land but they are more minor additions and/ or rethemes vs a new park or even a new land.

Back to the original topic, there’s no excuse to have to wait this long for some shade in Toy Story Land. It didn’t take Disney years to construct this, just years to decide to finish constructing it.

 

[Gusey]

I totally agree. I'm just trying to work within the flimsy framework of the original argument posed to me but what they're trying do here is compare when Disney announced they were building AK (1995 which is where everyone is getting three years) to when people caught Universal working on Epic.

Again, I agree announcements as a measuring point are ridiculous but I think using the announcement of one park against when the internet figured out work on another had started is even more ridiculous.

I mean, apples to apples, right?

Do you disagree?

Whilst AK was officially announced in 1995 and construction began in August 1995, a 4th theme park themed to animals was announced in 1990:

https://archive.ph/20220223052400/https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1990-01-15-9001153624-story.html

Animal Kingdom was greenlit by 1992 according to "The Making of Animal Kingdom" by Melody Malmberg (Joe Rhode's wife).

 

[MrPromey]

Not my math. I was quoting another post but I assume the timeline is for actual construction not time from formal announcement to open. Either way, I actually think given Covid and the lasting issues with labor shortages that 6 years is pretty good for a whole new park on new land. Even so, it’s still almost twice as long as it took to construct IOA in the 90s. It just takes longer to build stuff today. I don’t know the timelines for Minions or Dreamworks land but they are more minor additions and/ or rethemes vs a new park or even a new land.

Back to the original topic, there’s no excuse to have to wait this long for some shade in Toy Story Land. It didn’t take Disney years to construct this, just years to decide to finish constructing it.

Yeah, I was comparing the Milions and Dreamworks to the shade as a comparison of polar opposites.

I think we agree in principle - it did not take six years to put this in. It possibly took a couple of months to fabricate and a few weeks to install. It's not like the ladder was there for six years straight, right?

It just wasn't a priority for Disney and that's a shame because I'm sure there are lots of guests who've passed through this land since it opened who would have benefited from management caring about their comfort a little more and them getting this done a little sooner.

 

[MrPromey]

Whilst AK was officially announced in 1995 and construction began in August 1995, a 4th theme park themed to animals was announced in 1990:

https://archive.ph/20220223052400/https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1990-01-15-9001153624-story.html

Animal Kingdom was greenlit by 1992 according to "The Making of Animal Kingdom" by Melody Malmberg (Joe Rhode's wife).

What's your source for when construction began?

That article says something was announced in 1990 which tracks with them supposedly starting to develop it in 1989 as they've previously said but it mentions nothing about the start of construction which isn't surprising since it's from 1990.

We know they formally announced it as an animal park in 1995 and that by 1996 they'd completed forming the topography for the safari tour and were planting/transporting plants for it along with the installation of animal care and holding for that attraction but where are you getting 1995 as the definitive date they began to move dirt?

Given the nature of where it's located, I'd have to imagine reclamation alone would have taken more than a year.

As far as I know, everyone is touting 1995 because that is the date Disney announced but if you can give an actual reliable source for the start of work, I'll be happy to give up the ghost on this one.

 

[Gusey]

What's your source for when construction began?

That article says something was announced in 1990 which tracks with them supposedly starting to develop it in 1989 as they've previously said but it mentions nothing about the start of construction which isn't surprising since it's from 1990.

We know they formally announced it as an animal park in 1995 and that by 1996 they'd completed forming the topography for the safari tour and were planting/transporting plants for it along with the installation of animal care and holding for that attraction but where are you getting 1995 as the definitive date they began to move dirt?

Given the nature of where it's located, I'd have to imagine reclamation alone would have taken more than a year.

As far as I know, everyone is touting 1995 because that is the date Disney announced but if you can give an actual reliable source for the start of work, I'll be happy to give up the ghost on this one.

This website and the Melody Malmberg book I think. I'll check my copy of the book later and see if I can find a direct quote for you

 

[Gusey]

What's your source for when construction began?

That article says something was announced in 1990 which tracks with them supposedly starting to develop it in 1989 as they've previously said but it mentions nothing about the start of construction which isn't surprising since it's from 1990.

We know they formally announced it as an animal park in 1995 and that by 1996 they'd completed forming the topography for the safari tour and were planting/transporting plants for it along with the installation of animal care and holding for that attraction but where are you getting 1995 as the definitive date they began to move dirt?

Given the nature of where it's located, I'd have to imagine reclamation alone would have taken more than a year.

As far as I know, everyone is touting 1995 because that is the date Disney announced but if you can give an actual reliable source for the start of work, I'll be happy to give up the ghost on this one.

Here's a quote from the Melody Malmberg book saying constructionon AK began in August 1995:
"Back at Imagineering there was elation, adulation and frantic activity. Jack Blitch recalls the fallout [of the announcement]: "Everyone realised it's a real project!" Bids on contracts came in on or under budget. The earth-moving for Disney's Animal Kingdom Theme Park began in August. With opening day set for Spring 1998, a mere two-and-a-half years remained to build Disney's largest-ever theme park."

 

[GoofGoof]

Yeah, I was comparing the Milions and Dreamworks to the shade as a comparison of polar opposites.

I think we agree in principle - it did not take six years to put this in. It possibly took a couple of months to fabricate and a few weeks to install. It's not like the ladder was there for six years straight, right?

It just wasn't a priority for Disney and that's a shame because I'm sure there are lots of guests who've passed through this land since it opened who would have benefited from management caring about their comfort a little more and them getting this done a little sooner.

Yeah it probably took a few months at most of actual construction. I believe it was only greenlit after someone from Disney witnessed me nearly sweating to death walking through the land one hot Summer day. If that ladder was there I would have attempted to stand in its shadow. I have no evidence the decision was based on my desires, but the timing lines up

The crazy part to me is Disney actually usually does consider things like the heat in FL in the Summer when building attractions and when designing queues. If you go to a place like LEGOLAND you appreciate more what Disney has done. I have no idea why they didn’t incorporate more shade in the design and why it took years to add some.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

Yeah it probably took a few months at most of actual construction. I believe it was only greenlit after someone from Disney witnessed me nearly sweating to death walking through the land one hot Summer day. If that ladder was there I would have attempted to stand in its shadow. I have no evidence the decision was based on my desires, but the timing lines up

The crazy part to me is Disney actually usually does consider things like the heat in FL in the Summer when building attractions and when designing queues. If you go to a place like LEGOLAND you appreciate more what Disney has done. I have no idea why they didn’t incorporate more shade in the design and why it took years to add some.

My bet is definitely financial. Different departments fighting over a shared pool of money. Certain departments got it easier or put in their requests earlier while the others had to wait to spread out the cash flow. You can see it when one park gets a few extra stuff like MKs small enhancements recently while HS had a TON of money dumped into it and will get it again

 

[GoofGoof]

My bet is definitely financial. Different departments fighting over a shared pool of money. Certain departments got it easier or put in their requests earlier while the others had to wait to spread out the cash flow. You can see it when one park gets a few extra stuff like MKs small enhancements recently while HS had a TON of money dumped into it and will get it again

It always comes down to money

This is why I consider it a fail in the design of the land. If they took this into consideration from day 1 it could have been paid for with the initial project budget.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It always comes down to money

This is why I consider it a fail in the design of the land. If they took this into consideration from day 1 it could have been paid for with the initial project budget.

But then you’re paying for it instead of something else. Easy to not do it first knowing the park will want it enough to pay for it later.

 

[GoofGoof]

But then you’re paying for it instead of something else. Easy to not do it first knowing the park will want it enough to pay for it later.

I guess, but we are talking about some shade structures. The cost is a rounding error on the total project cost.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

I guess, but we are talking about some shade structures. The cost is a rounding error on the total project cost.

We know thats not really true especially with projects being overbudget

 

[GoofGoof]

We know thats not really true especially with projects being overbudget

Unless I’m missing something we are talking about a shade structures with some light theming. The original Toy Story Land project had a budget just under $300M and that may not have included the sit down restaurant that opened later. How much could this shade structure cost?

 

[James Alucobond]

Unless I’m missing something we are talking about a shade structures with some light theming. The original Toy Story Land project had a budget just under $300M and that may not have included the sit down restaurant that opened later. How much could this shade structure cost?

This particular shade structure is a tiny strip bandage on a gaping wound. It's true that it alone probably does not represent significant cost; in fact, its budget was likely tied into the kitchen expansion at Lunch Box. However, the fact that a massive line of umbrellas constantly dots the approach to Slinky Dog demonstrates that tackling the issue in its entirety would probably be quite costly and need much more design work than the couple of K'Nex shelters in this update.

 

[GoofGoof]

This particular shade structure is a tiny strip bandage on a gaping wound. It's true that it alone probably does not represent significant cost; in fact, its budget was likely tied into the kitchen expansion at Lunch Box. However, the fact that a massive line of umbrellas constantly dots the approach to Slinky Dog demonstrates that tackling the issue in its entirety would probably be quite costly and need much more design work than the couple of K'Nex shelters in this update.

Yeah, I don’t disagree that the shade situation in the whole land is an epic fail. I still think it’s a design flaw and I agree it would be a lot more difficult and expensive to try to fix it now.

 

[MrPromey]

This website and the Melody Malmberg book I think. I'll check my copy of the book later and see if I can find a direct quote for you

I don't think you'll find it on this website because it didn't exist back then.

 

[MrPromey]

Here's a quote from the Melody Malmberg book saying constructionon AK began in August 1995:
"Back at Imagineering there was elation, adulation and frantic activity. Jack Blitch recalls the fallout [of the announcement]: "Everyone realised it's a real project!" Bids on contracts came in on or under budget. The earth-moving for Disney's Animal Kingdom Theme Park began in August. With opening day set for Spring 1998, a mere two-and-a-half years remained to build Disney's largest-ever theme park."

Thank you. That's the first reference to actual construction timelines I've ever seen when it comes to AK.

I appreciate the effort on that and I'll shut up now. (well, about this, anyway )

 

[Gusey]

Thank you. That's the first reference to actual construction timelines I've ever seen when it comes to AK.

I appreciate the effort on that and I'll shut up now. (well, about this, anyway )

No worries. I do recommend Melody Malmberg's "The Making of Animal Kingdom" for anyone interested in AK's history as the park's development went through a lot of changes from 1989 to the announcement in 1995

 

[MrPromey]

No worries. I do recommend Melody Malmberg's "The Making of Animal Kingdom" for anyone interested in AK's history as the park's development went through a lot of changes from 1989 to the announcement in 1995

Appears to be out of print but it looks like Amazon may have a few used copies - I'll try to check it out.

Again, thank you.