Frozen in Norway: Am I the only one who doesn't mind?

Does anyone not mind if Frozen Ever After is in EPCOT?

  • Yes

    Votes: 11 44.0%
  • No

    Votes: 14 56.0%

  • Total voters
    25

mharrington

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Just because the fantasy realm of Arendelle was created via research by visiting various parts of Scandinavia to make it more believable for the ‘movie’.. doesn’t make it a “perfect fit” for EPCOT. It, again, is not a real, genuine place you can visit in Norway.. and the ride’s content doesn’t make any effort to truly showcase or tie itself into ‘real’ Norwegian locals, it’s people, or it’s customs.

Well, for once, I'm going with Disney on this one: https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2016/07/a-look-inside-frozen-ever-after-at-epcot/. That's where it went, so I'm going to assume that for once they know what they're doing.

I’m sorry man.. but.. you could make the same argument for films like Little Mermaid or literally ‘any’ other animated feature that had research done on it to make it’s locations & elements as believable as possible, as they’re ‘inspired’ by those elements. If we’re strictly going off the ‘content’ presented within the ride however.. the ride is, in essence, a movie focused darkride with songs and the familiar characters throughout, the underlying story is we’re supposed to meet Elsa at her ice palace for a snow summer celebration .. there’s nothing there that specifically makes it an ‘EPCOT’ ride (being a recreation or showcase of a ‘real’ place and it’s cultures). Pretty sure it could be placed at DHS via a Frozen Land (ala Galaxy’s Edge) and could fit easily. That park has mostly movie themed rides & lands of that nature. Heck, that’s the treatment it’s getting being cloned/brought over to some of the other parks around the world… further proving that there’s nothing about the ride that makes it truly fit uniquely at EPCOT other than the ‘fictional’ world of Arendelle being ‘inspired’ by Scandavian locations and it being shoehorned into the Norway pavilion (which is supposed to recreate the ‘real’ elements & locals of Norway) previously built in the 80s without it.

Some would argue that a flight over the world (or California, for that matter) has nothing to do with agriculture, but that's what Soarin', located at The Land, a pavilion about agriculture, is about. For that matter, it's arguable how a flight over the world has anything to do with California (beyond that it ends at Disneyland), since (speaking of clones) it's at the California Adventure. It's also debatable how much the Guardians of the Galaxy roller coaster fits at EPCOT either. So, really, they must know what they're doing, or they wouldn't be doing it. I'm going to have to go with Disney on this one. I really am.

Yep..That or a Frozen/Arendelle Land being built like Galaxy’s Edge.

The only way a Frozen land would fit is if they did away with the "studios" name. It's no longer a literal studio and has ceased to be so for at least thirty years now. I'm not fond of shoving a ride like that into a generic building, as the Little Mermaid show is. I'm sorry, but "studios" does not automatically equal "movies". It's also debatable what a Scandinavian village has to do with Hollywood. As far as I know, the closest Scandinavian-looking community to Hollywood is Solvang, which is at least 100 miles and two-plus hours away.

So I'm sorry, but I'm taking Disney's side for once.
 

FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
Well, for once, I'm going with Disney on this one: https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2016/07/a-look-inside-frozen-ever-after-at-epcot/. That's where it went, so I'm going to assume that for once they know what they're doing.



Some would argue that a flight over the world (or California, for that matter) has nothing to do with agriculture, but that's what Soarin', located at The Land, a pavilion about agriculture, is about. For that matter, it's arguable how a flight over the world has anything to do with California (beyond that it ends at Disneyland), since (speaking of clones) it's at the California Adventure. It's also debatable how much the Guardians of the Galaxy roller coaster fits at EPCOT either. So, really, they must know what they're doing, or they wouldn't be doing it. I'm going to have to go with Disney on this one. I really am.



The only way a Frozen land would fit is if they did away with the "studios" name. It's no longer a literal studio and has ceased to be so for at least thirty years now. I'm not fond of shoving a ride like that into a generic building, as the Little Mermaid show is. I'm sorry, but "studios" does not automatically equal "movies". It's also debatable what a Scandinavian village has to do with Hollywood. As far as I know, the closest Scandinavian-looking community to Hollywood is Solvang, which is at least 100 miles and two-plus hours away.

So I'm sorry, but I'm taking Disney's side for once.
You could honestly argue Disney’s upper management hasn’t had much of a clue or care about the integrity & thematic consistency of their parks for a while now.. since atleast the late 90s/early 2000s simply because they don’t care to honor the standards they set & stayed true to originally. Now seemingly all they care about is inserting IPs anywhere they can that’ll make a ton of profit for their stockholders in the short-term, no matter how that’s done... but they don’t focus on the long-term profits or legacy and staying true to those golden standards that made them so successful to begin with. Any huge thematic inconsistencies these days is due to upper management’s negligence in the past couple decades. Some of the samples you’ve given are VERY clear examples of that. Especially Guardians of the Galaxy at EPCOT.

Soarin’ in The Land (particuarly Around the World) I’d argue fits at EPCOT because it actually is a showcase of ‘real world’ landscapes that were created via our eco-system. (The pavilion was mainly about our eco-systems, natural landscapes, and mankind’s working relationship with them.. though due to Kraft’s initial sponsorship. The Listen/Living with the Land boat ride focused on plants & agriculture that were utilized for growing food. Not to mention, EPCOT features the World Showcase that’s supposed to showcase ‘real’ places, people, cultures and their countries. Soarin’ Around the World does that (though I can argue it’s execution with the cinematography could’ve been a lot better. I thought Over California was far superior in quality. But that’s just my personal opinion).

Now when it comes to Soarin’ Around the World’s fitting in California Adventure. I agree that it doesn’t fit there and that it was a poor decision to put it there. They should’ve kept Over California in it’s 4K remastered form.. but put in the updated ending with the new Tinker Bell animation. The California ride fits because the ride is literally in a park ‘about’ California. Also, that way. DCA & EPCOT feature two uniquely different experiences from eachother.

Onto the whole ‘Frozen doesn’t fit at the Studios due to Arendelle not being a place in Hollywood’ argument. Again, DHS never set out to be an exact replica or representation of the actual Hollywood & it’s studios. But rather an idealized one with various Film-themed rides. It was literally built as a direct answer/competition to Universal Studios. Hence why they’re so similar and why their rides are so similar (minus the fact DHS FL’s is no longer a real working Studio). Just to be clear, Universal Japan & Singapore aren’t working studios either with plenty of lands, rides & shows specifically themed around their ‘movies’. So if we take that into consideration. Disney’s Hollywood Studios is doing exactly what it was always meant to do. Be Disney’s answer to Universal Studios Orlando.
 
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FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
Well, for once, I'm going with Disney on this one: https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2016/07/a-look-inside-frozen-ever-after-at-epcot/. That's where it went, so I'm going to assume that for once they know what they're doing.


So I'm sorry, but I'm taking Disney's side for once.
And hey, if you genuinely feel upper management at Disney knows what they’ve been doing for the past decade or so. That’s perfectly fine, I respect that along with the fact you very well enjoy & like Frozen Ever After at EPCOT. ‘However’ I think you need to understand that you’re probably not going to convince the people that disagree with you to change their opinions on the matter, particularly when their minds have already been made and haven’t been able to be convinced yet after multiple tries, no matter how many times or how hard you try to defend this ride’s placement at EPCOT here, and hey, that’s fine. We all have different opinions and it’s great you enjoy it. The Current Disney company would probably be happy you enjoy it aswell as the rest of the ride’s fans.
 
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FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
If you can’t find as many other ‘Frozen Ever After’ fans as you’d like here on this forum, I’d try and look elsewhere. Knowing how large the Disney & DisneyParks fanbase is, across all social media platforms and more. I think you might have better luck finding more likeminded people that enjoy the ride as much as you do there.
 
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The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
There "have been" objections to Toy Story and Star Wars in DHS? Why then does the second indicate that there are no problems with them being at DHS? I personally believe that Frozen in the Studios would be even more egregious than Epcot, where they at least tried to tie it in to Norway. I would like to share something with you that proves my point and hopefully puts this concern to rest. While Arendelle itself may not be a real place, it is named after a real place: https://www.visitnorway.com/places-to-go/southern-norway/arendal/.

And furthermore, there's this...

"Per Disney, Arendelle gets its name from Arendal, a 16th-century shipping town about a three-hour drive southwest of Oslo"
Read more: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/trav...outhern-fjords-180956427/#btdCgAs5lKEvxDhT.99
Give the gift of Smithsonian magazine for only $12! http://bit.ly/1cGUiGv
Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter

So Frozen being in the Norway Pavilion is actually very thematically appropriate.
'Theme' is not 'setting'.

Star Wars, Buzz Lightyear, Alien and First Man are all 'set' in space. Yet Buzz popping up for a m&g in Galaxy's Edge would be a thematic clash.

Regardless, you can just enjoy your Frozen in the park where EPCOT used to be. Why worry what other people think?
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
Just because the fantasy realm of Arendelle was created via research by visiting various parts of Scandinavia to make it more believable for the ‘movie’.. doesn’t make it a “perfect fit” for EPCOT. It, again, is not a real, genuine place you can visit in Norway.. and the ride’s content doesn’t make any strong efforts to truly showcase or tie itself into ‘real’ Norwegian locals, it’s people, or it’s customs.
One part of Frozen that definately doesn't fit Norwegian culture: the "Oh, my God, it's snowing in Scandinavia, we're all doomed!" plot point. Could only have been written by someone who spends most of their life in southern California.
 

mharrington

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
'Theme' is not 'setting'.

Star Wars, Buzz Lightyear, Alien and First Man are all 'set' in space. Yet Buzz popping up for a m&g in Galaxy's Edge would be a thematic clash.

Regardless, you can just enjoy your Frozen in the park where EPCOT used to be. Why worry what other people think?

What do you mean "where EPCOT used to be"? EPCOT hasn't been replaced.
 

mharrington

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
If you can’t find as many other ‘Frozen Ever After’ fans as you’d like here on this forum, I’d try and look elsewhere. Knowing how large the Disney & DisneyParks fanbase is, across all social media platforms and more. I think you might have better luck finding more likeminded people that enjoy the ride as much as you do there.

You make it seem as though everyone here is opposed to the ride being in EPCOT and that I am literally the only one who doesn't mind.

EDIT: I have set up a poll to see who minds or doesn't mind if it's in EPCOT. This should help make things a little easier.
 
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DisneyMusician2

Well-Known Member
You make it seem as though everyone here is opposed to the ride being in EPCOT and that I am literally the only one who doesn't mind.
After posting here for a long time its still my favorite board, but there are a lot of 'dang kids get off my lawn' people who will always see change as bad because it doesn't align with their ideal vision. It helps not to argue with them because you can't change their minds, many times everything new and different from the original especially when it comes to adding IP.

That being said many are open minded and willing to have an honest debate with you without snark or elitism. I'm happy to see the ride there and I'm happy that the parks are using their successful IP and I'm happy they balanced a bit more with a ride people actually wanted to take in the world showcase. People forget that IP push in the parks is as old as Walt himself and he used it nicely to his advantage.
 

FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
What do you mean "where EPCOT used to be"? EPCOT hasn't been replaced.
It’s hyberpole… many/most attractions showcasing what EPCOT ‘used’ to be / ‘should’ be has been /is being replaced with things that don’t fit with it’s true identity.. thus the reason why she’s saying that. Of course EPCOT as a park hasn’t gone anywhere, But it’s original identity surely is at a frightening rate.

It’s becoming a bland ‘ride/see the movies’ park as opposed to a place meant to captivate & inspire people about ‘real world’ concepts & places essential to ‘improving’ our understanding & future.
 
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Archie123

Well-Known Member
You make it seem as though everyone here is opposed to the ride being in EPCOT and that I am literally the only one who doesn't mind.

EDIT: I have set up a poll to see who minds or doesn't mind if it's in EPCOT. This should help make things a little easier.

I enjoy Frozen much better than Maelstrom.
 

FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
PS: It’s not necessarily just “replacing old attractions” due to “muh nostalgia” or “the usage of IP” that’s upsetting people. It’s ‘the way’ they’re using the IPs and desecrating the parks’ original vision & values aswell as lessening the amount of park-original/exclusive content as a result that’s unreasonable.
Nearly every new project now constantly uses ‘Film IP’ characters & songs as a crutch… and doesn’t take the time to actually focus or truly tie it into real-world concepts or places (what EPCOT is all about). If they were actually executed/tied in properly to be uniquely EPCOT (focused on showcasing the real life country & subjects.. using the characters as a compliment to them rather than a replacement focus on the characters’ fictional places & stories) and didn’t keep coming at the expense of unique/non IP attractions.. people wouldn’t have as much of a problem with them.

That and it’d surely be nice if there was more of an effort to keep a balance in the park where you have an equal/50-50 amount of non-IP based attractions in comparison to ones that are based on IP. That balance is leaving/going at a frightening rate due to upper management’s incompetence.
 
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FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
Folks keep using the “people don’t like change” argument..
Yet that’s not necessarily true.. people are fine with change if the change is done tastefully and doesn’t compromise the overall theme & mission of the place.

It should also be mentioned that there’s still plenty of expansion space for them to build ‘new’ pavilions as opposed to constantly replacing older ones that are perfectly loved & popular as-is. Yet instead they’re constantly set on full-on replacing than tastefully enhancing/updating the old (keeping what genuinely worked fine but updating what didn’t in a way that doesn’t compromise or comes at the expense of the overall big picture/focus of the attraction) or building a-new in expansion plots they have. It’s all about saving costs & making short-term quarterly profits for them… not long term earnings that stay true to the quality & values you expect.. and that sadly usually comes at the expense of the quality & long-term timelessness (and profitability for that matter) of the project.
 

mharrington

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
You could honestly argue Disney’s upper management hasn’t had much of a clue or care about the integrity & thematic consistency of their parks for a while now.. since atleast the late 90s/early 2000s simply because they don’t care to honor the standards they set & stayed true to originally. Now seemingly all they care about is inserting IPs anywhere they can that’ll make a ton of profit for their stockholders in the short-term, no matter how that’s done... but they don’t focus on the long-term profits or legacy and staying true to those golden standards that made them so successful to begin with. Any huge thematic inconsistencies these days is due to upper management’s negligence in the past couple decades. Some of the samples you’ve given are VERY clear examples of that. Especially Guardians of the Galaxy at EPCOT.

Soarin’ in The Land (particuarly Around the World) I’d argue fits at EPCOT because it actually is a showcase of ‘real world’ landscapes that were created via our eco-system. (The pavilion was mainly about our eco-systems, natural landscapes, and mankind’s working relationship with them.. though due to Kraft’s initial sponsorship. The Listen/Living with the Land boat ride focused on plants & agriculture that were utilized for growing food. Not to mention, EPCOT features the World Showcase that’s supposed to showcase ‘real’ places, people, cultures and their countries. Soarin’ Around the World does that (though I can argue it’s execution with the cinematography could’ve been a lot better. I thought Over California was far superior in quality. But that’s just my personal opinion).

There are many things that Disney has done that I don't like, but Frozen being in EPCOT is fairly low on my list, which is why I said "For once", as in "An exception". And I'm not even that big a fan of "Frozen", or Maelstrom for that matter. It's hard to have your own opinion on things when it differs from the vast majority who all agree one way and yourself another. It's almost as if you're not a true fan unless you dislike what Disney does now versus in the past.

And let's not forget, EPCOT is going through several more changes as we speak. One whole section of Innoventions was demolished to make way for a water exhibit featuring "Moana" characters. I think it will fit quite nicely, even though that wasn't necessarily the first place I would put it.

Onto the whole ‘Frozen doesn’t fit at the Studios due to Arendelle not being a place in Hollywood’ argument. Again, DHS never set out to be an exact replica or representation of the actual Hollywood & it’s studios. But rather an idealized one with various Film-themed rides. It was literally built as a direct answer/competition to Universal Studios. Hence why they’re so similar and why their rides are so similar (minus the fact DHS FL’s is no longer a real working Studio). Just to be clear, Universal Japan & Singapore aren’t working studios either with plenty of lands, rides & shows specifically themed around their ‘movies’. So if we take that into consideration. Disney’s Hollywood Studios is doing exactly what it was always meant to do. Be Disney’s answer to Universal Studios Orlando.

Just as the theme and direction of EPCOT may or may not be changing, the identity of the Studios had a decidedly different identity as well. It was originally not supposed to be just about "riding the movies". You did that in several Magic Kingdom attractions as well, or at least encountered movie characters in their rides.

Anyway, once upon a time, the Studios was not meant to be about just "riding the movies". It was supposed to be a working studio (as in, making real movies, TV shows, etc.), which just happened to have a few rides here and there. So yes, it was supposed to be a representation of the real Hollywood, even though it didn't turn out that way. And yes, it was built to compete with Universal, but even Universal Orlando still uses its properties for filming, albeit not for anything worthwhile, such as for wrestling or the Powerball. Disney's Hollywood Studios doesn't do that anymore.

And by the way, the definition for "studio" in the dictionary is as follows: 1.a) the working place of a painter, sculptor, or photographer; 1.b) a place for the study of an art (such as dancing, singing, or acting); 2.a) a place where motion pictures are made; 2.b) a company that produces motion pictures; 3) a place maintained and equipped for the transmission of radio or television programs; 4) a place where audio recordings are made. Not one definition of the word "studio" mentions "riding the movies". A studio is a place where movies are made, not where you go to "ride the movies".

After posting here for a long time its still my favorite board, but there are a lot of 'dang kids get off my lawn' people who will always see change as bad because it doesn't align with their ideal vision. It helps not to argue with them because you can't change their minds, many times everything new and different from the original especially when it comes to adding IP.

That being said many are open minded and willing to have an honest debate with you without snark or elitism. I'm happy to see the ride there and I'm happy that the parks are using their successful IP and I'm happy they balanced a bit more with a ride people actually wanted to take in the world showcase. People forget that IP push in the parks is as old as Walt himself and he used it nicely to his advantage.

Thank you. It frustrates me when people seem to automatically hate IPs. I wish people would be a little less critical of everything that Disney does. There are many things Disney has done that I don't like, but Frozen in EPCOT isn't one of them. Like I said, I'm not even a Frozen fan, nor did I really care that much for Maelstrom.
 

Robbiem

Well-Known Member
My issue isn’t with the ride but its location. Frozen is based on a Danish fairy tale set in a fantasy world. It has only a loose connection to norway through the design of the movie. Its like putting hercules in Italy because Grecco Roman design is similar in both places.
If the pavilion was the original Scandinavia showcase with Danish and Swedish elements I would think differently but its not nice to treat Norwegians in that way disregarding their culture in a cultural showcase. How would Americans feel if grand fiesta tour was in the American Adventure because the southwestern US is similar to area of mexico?
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
My issue isn’t with the ride but its location. Frozen is based on a Danish fairy tale set in a fantasy world. It has only a loose connection to norway through the design of the movie. Its like putting hercules in Italy because Grecco Roman design is similar in both places.
If the pavilion was the original Scandinavia showcase with Danish and Swedish elements I would think differently but its not nice to treat Norwegians in that way disregarding their culture in a cultural showcase. How would Americans feel if grand fiesta tour was in the American Adventure because the southwestern US is similar to area of mexico?
I am firmly in the camp that thinks the addition of Frozen without any attempts to tie it into the actual country of Norway degrades the pavillion. However, the movie Frozen departs so far from Hans Christian Andersen's "Snow Queen" that it really isn't even close to being the same story anymore. So, the tennuous connection to Denmark essentially isn't there (unless you assume Frozen takes place during the time period when Norway was a part of Denmark, but some of the character designs would seem to indicate a later timeframe).

But still, the only thing even really tying Frozen to Norway are some of the vague nods to Norway's "dragon revival" architectural style of the 19th century. Otherwise, this movie could have been influenced by any European country that gets snow. You could have set the movie in the Alps, Pyrenees, or Carpathian mountains, and it would have only needed minor character and background adjustments.
 
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mharrington

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
You could honestly argue Disney’s upper management hasn’t had much of a clue or care about the integrity & thematic consistency of their parks for a while now.. since atleast the late 90s/early 2000s simply because they don’t care to honor the standards they set & stayed true to originally. Now seemingly all they care about is inserting IPs anywhere they can that’ll make a ton of profit for their stockholders in the short-term, no matter how that’s done... but they don’t focus on the long-term profits or legacy and staying true to those golden standards that made them so successful to begin with. Any huge thematic inconsistencies these days is due to upper management’s negligence in the past couple decades. Some of the samples you’ve given are VERY clear examples of that. Especially Guardians of the Galaxy at EPCOT.

Soarin’ in The Land (particuarly Around the World) I’d argue fits at EPCOT because it actually is a showcase of ‘real world’ landscapes that were created via our eco-system. (The pavilion was mainly about our eco-systems, natural landscapes, and mankind’s working relationship with them.. though due to Kraft’s initial sponsorship. The Listen/Living with the Land boat ride focused on plants & agriculture that were utilized for growing food. Not to mention, EPCOT features the World Showcase that’s supposed to showcase ‘real’ places, people, cultures and their countries. Soarin’ Around the World does that (though I can argue it’s execution with the cinematography could’ve been a lot better. I thought Over California was far superior in quality. But that’s just my personal opinion).

There are many things that Disney has done that I don't like, but Frozen being in EPCOT is fairly low on my list, which is why I said "For once", as in "An exception". And I'm not even that big a fan of "Frozen", or Maelstrom for that matter. It's hard to have your own opinion on things when it differs from the vast majority who all agree one way and yourself another. It's almost as if you're not a true fan unless you dislike what Disney does now versus in the past.

And let's not forget, EPCOT is going through several more changes as we speak. One whole section of Innoventions was demolished to make way for a water exhibit featuring "Moana" characters. I think it will fit quite nicely, even though that wasn't necessarily the first place I would put it.

Onto the whole ‘Frozen doesn’t fit at the Studios due to Arendelle not being a place in Hollywood’ argument. Again, DHS never set out to be an exact replica or representation of the actual Hollywood & it’s studios. But rather an idealized one with various Film-themed rides. It was literally built as a direct answer/competition to Universal Studios. Hence why they’re so similar and why their rides are so similar (minus the fact DHS FL’s is no longer a real working Studio). Just to be clear, Universal Japan & Singapore aren’t working studios either with plenty of lands, rides & shows specifically themed around their ‘movies’. So if we take that into consideration. Disney’s Hollywood Studios is doing exactly what it was always meant to do. Be Disney’s answer to Universal Studios Orlando.

Just as the theme and direction of EPCOT may or may not be changing, the identity of the Studios had a decidedly different identity as well. It was originally not supposed to be just about "riding the movies". You did that in several Magic Kingdom attractions as well, or at least encountered movie characters in their rides.

Anyway, once upon a time, the Studios was not meant to be about just "riding the movies". It was supposed to be a working studio (as in, making real movies, TV shows, etc.), which just happened to have a few rides here and there. So yes, it was supposed to be a representation of the real Hollywood, even though it didn't turn out that way. And yes, it was built to compete with Universal, but even Universal Orlando still uses its studio buildings as real filming studios, albeit not for anything really worthwhile, such as for wrestling or the Powerball. Disney's Hollywood Studios doesn't do that anymore.

And by the way, the definition for "studio" in the dictionary is as follows:
1.a) the working place of a painter, sculptor, or photographer
1.b) a place for the study of an art (such as dancing, singing, or acting)
2.a) a place where motion pictures are made
2.b) a company that produces motion pictures
3) a place maintained and equipped for the transmission of radio or television programs
4) a place where audio recordings are made.

Not one definition of the word "studio" mentions "riding the movies". A studio is a place where movies are made, not where you go to "ride the movies".

After posting here for a long time its still my favorite board, but there are a lot of 'dang kids get off my lawn' people who will always see change as bad because it doesn't align with their ideal vision. It helps not to argue with them because you can't change their minds, many times everything new and different from the original especially when it comes to adding IP.

That being said many are open minded and willing to have an honest debate with you without snark or elitism. I'm happy to see the ride there and I'm happy that the parks are using their successful IP and I'm happy they balanced a bit more with a ride people actually wanted to take in the world showcase. People forget that IP push in the parks is as old as Walt himself and he used it nicely to his advantage.

Thank you. It frustrates me when people seem to automatically hate IPs. I wish people would be a little less critical of everything that Disney does. There are many things Disney has done that I don't like, but Frozen in EPCOT isn't one of them. Like I said, I'm not even a Frozen fan, nor did I really care that much for Maelstrom.
 

FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
There are many things that Disney has done that I don't like, but Frozen being in EPCOT is fairly low on my list, which is why I said "For once", as in "An exception". And I'm not even that big a fan of "Frozen", or Maelstrom for that matter. It's hard to have your own opinion on things when it differs from the vast majority who all agree one way and yourself another. It's almost as if you're not a true fan unless you dislike what Disney does now versus in the past.

And let's not forget, EPCOT is going through several more changes as we speak. One whole section of Innoventions was demolished to make way for a water exhibit featuring "Moana" characters. I think it will fit quite nicely, even though that wasn't necessarily the first place I would put it.



Just as the theme and direction of EPCOT may or may not be changing, the identity of the Studios had a decidedly different identity as well. It was originally not supposed to be just about "riding the movies". You did that in several Magic Kingdom attractions as well, or at least encountered movie characters in their rides.

Anyway, once upon a time, the Studios was not meant to be about just "riding the movies". It was supposed to be a working studio (as in, making real movies, TV shows, etc.), which just happened to have a few rides here and there. So yes, it was supposed to be a representation of the real Hollywood, even though it didn't turn out that way. And yes, it was built to compete with Universal, but even Universal Orlando still uses its studio buildings as real filming studios, albeit not for anything really worthwhile, such as for wrestling or the Powerball. Disney's Hollywood Studios doesn't do that anymore.

And by the way, the definition for "studio" in the dictionary is as follows:
1.a) the working place of a painter, sculptor, or photographer
1.b) a place for the study of an art (such as dancing, singing, or acting)
2.a) a place where motion pictures are made
2.b) a company that produces motion pictures
3) a place maintained and equipped for the transmission of radio or television programs
4) a place where audio recordings are made.

Not one definition of the word "studio" mentions "riding the movies". A studio is a place where movies are made, not where you go to "ride the movies".



Thank you. It frustrates me when people seem to automatically hate IPs. I wish people would be a little less critical of everything that Disney does. There are many things Disney has done that I don't like, but Frozen in EPCOT isn't one of them. Like I said, I'm not even a Frozen fan, nor did I really care that much for Maelstrom.
That’s completely fair that you think Frozen fits fine in EPCOT and that you didn’t care much for Maelstrom. Everyone has different tastes after all and that’s okay. But if you’re not a fan of Frozen or the Maelstrom. I honestly can’t understand why you’re being ‘this’ defensive about this decision being a good one then.

Btw, about “people automatically hating IPs”… Not every IP addition to EPCOT has been received poorly.. just look at Circle of Life at The Land pavilion & Goofy About Health at Wonders of Life. Those were both done tastefully and in a way that didn’t compromise the original focus, integrity, & spirit of the pavilions/areas they were put into.
I think the key problem here is, we know full well Disney was once capable of better quality attractions & additions, both IP & unique/park original concepts, and in intentionally being creative with the concepts in order for them to fit the spirit & purpose of the park. The problem is that the newer additions are striving less & less to truly tie them in properly to the actual park’s purpose, real world & the areas they’re being placed in. (This ‘especially’ applies to EPCOT)
That and there was seemingly a much better balance between the amount of film IP & unique/park exclusive attractions you could find in all the parks before … the problem now is we have WAY too many Film IP based attractions going & replacing or outnumbering unique/park exclusive content & stuff that actually fits in with the original themes, missions, & areas they were intended to represent. to the point they’re nearly completely gone.. which isn’t a good thing.

So in essence, it’s not IP that people hate exactly. It’s Disney’s overreliance on them, the fact they’re coming at the expense of park original/unique content to the point they’re nearly gone, the overall quality & execution isn’t as good as the stuff that replaced them (though granted, that’s subjective) and that they’re not tieing into the areas they’re being put into properly.
 
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FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
It's hard to have your own opinion on things when it differs from the vast majority who all agree one way and yourself another. It's almost as if you're not a true fan unless you dislike what Disney does now versus in the past.
And that’s understandable, however.. it’s important not to let a vast majority opinion here on a forum completely deter to your own opinion on something, especially as a simple fan or public consumer. The fact is, we’re all different & unique people and as a result.. we don’t all hold the exact same opinions. There are plenty of movies, shows, & things that I like that aren’t exactly the most popular elsewhere but I’ve never let other’s opinions on them change the way I feel about them. Granted, it can be difficult to try & convince somebody, let alone a group of people to think differently about something when they’ve clearly made up their mind/opinion on something. But again, our unique opinions are simply what make us individuals. Nothing to feel bad about.

And in regards to the whole “true fan” argument. I don’t believe in that argument for really anything. If you’re a fan of something, you’re a fan of something. That’s that.
Granted, in the context of a higher executive or somebody put in charge of continuing or improving something, I tend to feel it’s a lot smarter to simply take what works & to stay true to the integrity & spirit of something that genuinely worked, and simply fix the parts of it that don’t work without changing the core of what people already liked about it, as much as possible. Better to attempt to fix something first rather than just totally scrap or reimagine it entirely IMO.
 
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mharrington

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
That’s completely fair that you think Frozen fits fine in EPCOT and that you didn’t care much for Maelstrom. Everyone has different tastes after all and that’s okay. But if you’re not a fan of Frozen or the Maelstrom. I honestly can’t understand why you’re being ‘this’ defensive about this decision being a good one then.

Btw, about “people automatically hating IPs”… Not every IP addition to EPCOT has been received poorly.. just look at Circle of Life at The Land pavilion & Goofy About Health at Wonders of Life. Those were both done tastefully and in a way that didn’t compromise the original focus, integrity, & spirit of the pavilions/areas they were put into.
I think the key problem here is, we know full well Disney was once capable of better quality attractions & additions, both IP & unique/park original concepts, and in intentionally being creative with the concepts in order for them to fit the spirit & purpose of the park. The problem is that the newer additions are striving less & less to truly tie them in properly to the actual park’s purpose, real world & the areas they’re being placed in. (This ‘especially’ applies to EPCOT)
That and there was seemingly a much better balance between the amount of film IP & unique/park exclusive attractions you could find in all the parks before … the problem now is we have WAY too many Film IP based attractions going & replacing or outnumbering unique/park exclusive content & stuff that actually fits in with the original themes, missions, & areas they were intended to represent. to the point they’re nearly completely gone.. which isn’t a good thing.

So in essence, it’s not IP that people hate exactly. It’s Disney’s overreliance on them, the fact they’re coming at the expense of park original/unique content to the point they’re nearly gone, the overall quality & execution isn’t as good as the stuff that replaced them (though granted, that’s subjective) and that they’re not tieing into the areas they’re being put into properly.

But what about the Studios? I don't believe you answered me that...

Just as the theme and direction of EPCOT may or may not be changing, the identity of the Studios had a decidedly different identity as well. It was originally not supposed to be just about "riding the movies". You did that in several Magic Kingdom attractions as well, or at least encountered movie characters in their rides.

Anyway, once upon a time, the Studios was not meant to be about just "riding the movies", as you called it. It was supposed to be a working studio (as in, making real movies, TV shows, etc.), which just happened to have a few rides here and there, all tied in some way, shape or form to the moviemaking process. So yes, it was supposed to be a representation of the real Hollywood, even though it didn't turn out that way. And yes, it was built to compete with Universal, but as far as I know, even Universal Orlando still uses its studio buildings as real filming studios, albeit not for anything really worthwhile, such as for wrestling or the Powerball. Disney's Hollywood Studios doesn't do that anymore.

And by the way, the definition for "studio" in the dictionary is as follows:
1.a) the working place of a painter, sculptor, or photographer
1.b) a place for the study of an art (such as dancing, singing, or acting)
2.a) a place where motion pictures are made
2.b) a company that produces motion pictures
3) a place maintained and equipped for the transmission of radio or television programs
4) a place where audio recordings are made.

Not one definition of the word "studio" mentions "riding the movies". A studio is a place where movies are made, not where you go to "ride the movies".

Again, I think the name of that park should be changed (and that applies to the Paris park, too). I don't know, though. Maybe it could be either Disney (no apostrophe-S) Hollywood CineMagic Adventure (a bit of a mouthful, I know) or something? Or maybe it could just be Disney Hollywoodland.
 

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