Unless you're one of the very small percentage of locals and APs who know how to game the system at WDW by coming in for 1-2 rides then leaving, any time you saved skipping a couple queues will be more than made up for in the stagnant standby lines at the rides which you don't have a FP for.
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FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was
- Thread starter MisterPenguin
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Unless you're one of the very small percentage of locals and APs who know how to game the system at WDW by coming in for 1-2 rides then leaving, any time you saved skipping a couple queues will be more than made up for in the stagnant standby lines at the rides which you don't have a FP for.
hopemax
Well-Known Member
We have been having a wonderful time with this FP-free opportunity. For example, we went to MK today. Got there at opening. We rode Mine Train with a 20 min wait, Peter Pan at 15, HM - walk on, BTMRR 10 min, Splash said 35 when we got in line, then we saw on the app it had jumped to 55, our wait was closer to 45, and then we got stuck on the ride for 10 minutes at the bottom of the final lift hill. Then we had breakfast at Sleepy Hollow at 10AM. Afterwards we did IASW 25 min, Peter Pan again (met up with a friend who wanted to do it) and it was 40 minutes. Peoplemover 10 min, Main street shopping, Tiki Room 10 minutes before the pre-show area, Lunch at 2:45, after Jungle Cruise 50 minutes, before we headed out.
With FP+, our day would have been: 7 days before reserve FP+ (my Mom was a CM, and my Dad has a Main Entrance Pass, so that's our limitation). Mine Train, Peter Pan, BTMRR would have been unavailable. Splash and sometimes Jungle Cruise would have only been available after we would expect to leave the park for the day. While I would check multiple times for things to pop up, it rarely did, and once at the park, I'm not going to be buried on a phone constantly refreshing. That's not enjoyable. So our FP+ would have been Haunted Mansion for sure, and 2 of these 3 depending on JC availability - Jungle Cruise, Pirates and Buzz Lightyear. We would have arrived at opening and would have tried to get quick rides on JC, Pirates and BTMRR, use our 3 FP, and then maybe also do IASW, Mermaid and Peoplemover.
I can't remember the last time we could have ever chosen to ride Peter Pan twice in one day! We waited a total of 55 minutes today, on a FP+ day it would be 45 minutes shortly after opening and then by mid-day be 85 minutes and stay that high until we would leave the park. And we got to ride Mine Train! That would have been 75-100 minutes for us (we would only ride on party nights, we wouldn't actually wait that long). It's not like the park was uncrowded either. It felt very much like the old non-Spring Break spring days, when most rides were 30-45 minutes with a couple stretching to an hour.
Same for AK yesterday. We did FOP with a 45 minute wait. Our normal strategy since we never get a FP, was to do the rest of the park when everyone else was rushing to Pandora when the waits would be short, and then since we didn't wait for all the other rides, we would suck it up and wait the 90-120 minutes for FoP.
It is hard to convey how bad park touring is if you can't get FP when everyone else has FP+. And I'm not really sure everyone else was really saving time over their whole day either. Yeah, you get your 3 rides for minimal wait (but often you were waiting 10 minutes to get to the touch point, and then another 10 minutes to board), but on everything else your choices were 60 min+. I would rather take 30-45 min for 5 rides, and an hour for 2-3 rides, for a sum of 270-405 minutes than 3 ride at 10-20 min each, but then 60-90 minutes for the other 5. That's a potential range of 330-510 minutes. And that doesn't even include the increase in waits at the food and shops like Disney wanted people to be doing when they weren't in a queue. I know there are always those singles and couples who would refresh, refresh, refresh and get any ride and use FP all day long, but statistically, I don't think there were many people that were that sort of successful (but they are all here
). Most people would do their 3 rides and then stop riding things, or deal with the longer queues. Neither is really a good recipe for a satisfying day.
It's also hard to convey how rides with good capacity, 2000 people or more, never really would get longer than an hour other than holidays or the prime-park hours 11-3. There just weren't enough people entering the queue to sustain it for extended periods. Ebb and flow, yeah, but the worst waits were avoidable. With FP+, up to like 80% of seats are pre-assigned. So then you only need more than 400 people/hr to push it more than an hour, and there are enough people in the park willing to sustain that. Which is why it looks so good on Disney's stat sheets. Sustained, maxed out demand.
Anyway, now I'm getting to far back into old FP arguments. But to counter all the "I miss FP!" I mostly wanted to share how we had our most enjoyable day in years.
With FP+, our day would have been: 7 days before reserve FP+ (my Mom was a CM, and my Dad has a Main Entrance Pass, so that's our limitation). Mine Train, Peter Pan, BTMRR would have been unavailable. Splash and sometimes Jungle Cruise would have only been available after we would expect to leave the park for the day. While I would check multiple times for things to pop up, it rarely did, and once at the park, I'm not going to be buried on a phone constantly refreshing. That's not enjoyable. So our FP+ would have been Haunted Mansion for sure, and 2 of these 3 depending on JC availability - Jungle Cruise, Pirates and Buzz Lightyear. We would have arrived at opening and would have tried to get quick rides on JC, Pirates and BTMRR, use our 3 FP, and then maybe also do IASW, Mermaid and Peoplemover.
I can't remember the last time we could have ever chosen to ride Peter Pan twice in one day! We waited a total of 55 minutes today, on a FP+ day it would be 45 minutes shortly after opening and then by mid-day be 85 minutes and stay that high until we would leave the park. And we got to ride Mine Train! That would have been 75-100 minutes for us (we would only ride on party nights, we wouldn't actually wait that long). It's not like the park was uncrowded either. It felt very much like the old non-Spring Break spring days, when most rides were 30-45 minutes with a couple stretching to an hour.
Same for AK yesterday. We did FOP with a 45 minute wait. Our normal strategy since we never get a FP, was to do the rest of the park when everyone else was rushing to Pandora when the waits would be short, and then since we didn't wait for all the other rides, we would suck it up and wait the 90-120 minutes for FoP.
It is hard to convey how bad park touring is if you can't get FP when everyone else has FP+. And I'm not really sure everyone else was really saving time over their whole day either. Yeah, you get your 3 rides for minimal wait (but often you were waiting 10 minutes to get to the touch point, and then another 10 minutes to board), but on everything else your choices were 60 min+. I would rather take 30-45 min for 5 rides, and an hour for 2-3 rides, for a sum of 270-405 minutes than 3 ride at 10-20 min each, but then 60-90 minutes for the other 5. That's a potential range of 330-510 minutes. And that doesn't even include the increase in waits at the food and shops like Disney wanted people to be doing when they weren't in a queue. I know there are always those singles and couples who would refresh, refresh, refresh and get any ride and use FP all day long, but statistically, I don't think there were many people that were that sort of successful (but they are all here
). Most people would do their 3 rides and then stop riding things, or deal with the longer queues. Neither is really a good recipe for a satisfying day.It's also hard to convey how rides with good capacity, 2000 people or more, never really would get longer than an hour other than holidays or the prime-park hours 11-3. There just weren't enough people entering the queue to sustain it for extended periods. Ebb and flow, yeah, but the worst waits were avoidable. With FP+, up to like 80% of seats are pre-assigned. So then you only need more than 400 people/hr to push it more than an hour, and there are enough people in the park willing to sustain that. Which is why it looks so good on Disney's stat sheets. Sustained, maxed out demand.
Anyway, now I'm getting to far back into old FP arguments. But to counter all the "I miss FP!" I mostly wanted to share how we had our most enjoyable day in years.
ImperfectPixie
Well-Known Member
Couldn't agree more.
Incomudro
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, I've been out of the loop on this whole thing and I'm a bit lost.
Can someone simplify it for me please?
As I understand it, no more FastPass - so no more booking rides a month out or more, correct?
In place of that, you book your Park - but how far out do you do that, and can you change it?
Once in the park that one books, all rides are standby?
How does Park Hopping Which I understand is back, tie in with this?
Thank you so much.
Can someone simplify it for me please?
As I understand it, no more FastPass - so no more booking rides a month out or more, correct?
In place of that, you book your Park - but how far out do you do that, and can you change it?
Once in the park that one books, all rides are standby?
How does Park Hopping Which I understand is back, tie in with this?
Thank you so much.
Preach
Park pass will do that for now with parks selling out but in 6 months when they’re at 100% capacity and nothing sells out ever, why would anyone lock themselves into a park any sooner than the night before or morning of? Unless they have an ADR. Or a ride reservation of some sort
wdwfan4ver
Well-Known Member
You can book your park as far as January of 2023 right now based on what I read. .
Park Pass can't be modified, but canceled. I have not been at WDW since the Park Pass was introduced last year.
To my understanding, all rides are standby.
Park hopping is tied in with Park Pass by you actually need to scan in at the turnstiles and enter your first park to “validate” and enable Park Hopping.
Kevin_W
Well-Known Member
I've visited Cedar Point and seen Fastlane in action. I watched a guy and his son ride Millenium force 4 times while I waited in standby to ride it once. Somehow, that didn't feel like a win to me.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
Not if you don't pay for Fastlane then it doesn't help you that much. I buy Fastlane every time I go to Cedar Point. It's the only way to be able to ride everything.I've visited Cedar Point and seen Fastlane in action. I watched a guy and his son ride Millenium force 4 times while I waited in standby to ride it once. Somehow, that didn't feel like a win to me.
At Disney I think it would work cause the common complaint seems to be that with FP active the standby lines barely move. What needs to happen is to limit even more the amount available. The ones saying make it cost $20 to $30 isn't going to discourage enough people to buy it.
It feels like everyone wants to keep it so everyone has access to it. The other issue is that unlike most parks, most Disney park goers are ok with " one and done" on attractions. The point of a FP system shouldn't be about controlling crowds, it should be an add on for those who want to ride more and wait less. An example is due to express pass at Universal I managed 10 rides on the Mummy in 3 days.
They have that at Disney too. It’s $450-$700 an hour depending on the day. It’s the only way to be able to ride everything.
If Disney is in fact going to bring in paid FP options, the needle they need to thread with pricing is so so small. It needs to be expensive enough to offset lost revenue from fewer onsite guests, less onsite hotel pricing power, and fewer DVC sales, while being cheap enough that a ton of people still buy it (because if it’s not selling out on the regular, it will become a very inexpensive replacement for a VIP tour).
mikejs78
Premium Member
Those low wait times are because of reduced capacity. Try it again once crowds are back to normal.We have been having a wonderful time with this FP-free opportunity. For example, we went to MK today. Got there at opening. We rode Mine Train with a 20 min wait, Peter Pan at 15, HM - walk on, BTMRR 10 min, Splash said 35 when we got in line, then we saw on the app it had jumped to 55, our wait was closer to 45, and then we got stuck on the ride for 10 minutes at the bottom of the final lift hill. Then we had breakfast at Sleepy Hollow at 10AM. Afterwards we did IASW 25 min, Peter Pan again (met up with a friend who wanted to do it) and it was 40 minutes. Peoplemover 10 min, Main street shopping, Tiki Room 10 minutes before the pre-show area, Lunch at 2:45, after Jungle Cruise 50 minutes, before we headed out.
With FP+, our day would have been: 7 days before reserve FP+ (my Mom was a CM, and my Dad has a Main Entrance Pass, so that's our limitation). Mine Train, Peter Pan, BTMRR would have been unavailable. Splash and sometimes Jungle Cruise would have only been available after we would expect to leave the park for the day. While I would check multiple times for things to pop up, it rarely did, and once at the park, I'm not going to be buried on a phone constantly refreshing. That's not enjoyable. So our FP+ would have been Haunted Mansion for sure, and 2 of these 3 depending on JC availability - Jungle Cruise, Pirates and Buzz Lightyear. We would have arrived at opening and would have tried to get quick rides on JC, Pirates and BTMRR, use our 3 FP, and then maybe also do IASW, Mermaid and Peoplemover.
I can't remember the last time we could have ever chosen to ride Peter Pan twice in one day! We waited a total of 55 minutes today, on a FP+ day it would be 45 minutes shortly after opening and then by mid-day be 85 minutes and stay that high until we would leave the park. And we got to ride Mine Train! That would have been 75-100 minutes for us (we would only ride on party nights, we wouldn't actually wait that long). It's not like the park was uncrowded either. It felt very much like the old non-Spring Break spring days, when most rides were 30-45 minutes with a couple stretching to an hour.
Same for AK yesterday. We did FOP with a 45 minute wait. Our normal strategy since we never get a FP, was to do the rest of the park when everyone else was rushing to Pandora when the waits would be short, and then since we didn't wait for all the other rides, we would suck it up and wait the 90-120 minutes for FoP.
It is hard to convey how bad park touring is if you can't get FP when everyone else has FP+. And I'm not really sure everyone else was really saving time over their whole day either. Yeah, you get your 3 rides for minimal wait (but often you were waiting 10 minutes to get to the touch point, and then another 10 minutes to board), but on everything else your choices were 60 min+. I would rather take 30-45 min for 5 rides, and an hour for 2-3 rides, for a sum of 270-405 minutes than 3 ride at 10-20 min each, but then 60-90 minutes for the other 5. That's a potential range of 330-510 minutes. And that doesn't even include the increase in waits at the food and shops like Disney wanted people to be doing when they weren't in a queue. I know there are always those singles and couples who would refresh, refresh, refresh and get any ride and use FP all day long, but statistically, I don't think there were many people that were that sort of successful (but they are all here
It's also hard to convey how rides with good capacity, 2000 people or more, never really would get longer than an hour other than holidays or the prime-park hours 11-3. There just weren't enough people entering the queue to sustain it for extended periods. Ebb and flow, yeah, but the worst waits were avoidable. With FP+, up to like 80% of seats are pre-assigned. So then you only need more than 400 people/hr to push it more than an hour, and there are enough people in the park willing to sustain that. Which is why it looks so good on Disney's stat sheets. Sustained, maxed out demand.
Anyway, now I'm getting to far back into old FP arguments. But to counter all the "I miss FP!" I mostly wanted to share how we had our most enjoyable day in years.
I spent the weekend at Cedar Point and what stands out more than anything is how there are nowhere near enough attractions in the WDW (or UO) parks for the size and attendance. Three Open-Close days in the park and they were each filled with new and repeat attractions. The only reason WDW takes so long are the artificially inflated lines. A day of walk ons and a focus on rides and Studios, DAK and Epcot are all half day parks
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
Then what's the point if a ton of people are still able to get FP. It defeats the purpose and doesn't help the biggest complaint in standby lines barely moving. The better thing to do is give discounts depending on what level of resort you stay at. Then it still drives people to stay on site.
Exactly the problem. If it’s going to cost less than the VIP tour it needs to be meaningfully worse than the VIP tour.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
Make it similar to Shanghai's system. Pay for set groups of attractions. Would it be that bad that for 6 rides it's $80 a person?
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
They should just drop any form of FP and double the admission price. That should drop attendance by 30% or so (vs. 2019) and make the standby waits reasonable. They'll also be way up on revenue for ticket sales.
rreading
Well-Known Member
It’s a thought. Trouble is that - at least in the short term - people might pay it; then guest satisfaction would be terrible. Higher prices, no FP and still with lines would be a disaster
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
You could also keep park pass and cap the capacity to maintain reasonable wait times.
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