Disney Skyliner shutdown and evacuation - October 6 2019

[Horizons '83]

If you’re familiar with a root cause analysis, which the majority of the public are not I will grant you, there are some very clear key words in those couple of sentences. Personally I have a better understanding of why it happened, but not what exactly happened. I’m okay with what they said, but I also understand the position of those that aren’t.

The way I read it was there was a lack of training not only with the actual incident itself but with the fallout particularly with communication to guests in the cabins. It also with Reddy Creek’s handling of the evacuation.

 

[ThatMouse]

Couldn't your translation statement also describe the monorail system? There are potentially three transportation systems that can get you from TTC to MK in the case of failure. Can't that be the same for the Skyliner? If you don't want to ride the Skyliner, don't and use another form of transportation system instead.

My problem is Disney's statement contains two excuses: placing blame on the manufacturer and the start/stop problem with the nature of ski lifts in general. The fact that they didn't say "looking for ways to improve reliability and shorten downtime, as well as innovative ways to making boarding quicker to lesson the start/stop" says to me they aren't even trying and they won't spend an extra dime on this.

 

[flynnibus]

First step in dealing with a problem is to move past it.

Says every NFL coach after a loss..

 

[monothingie]

Says every NFL coach after a loss..

J**E**T**S JETS JETS JETS!

Well not last night anyway...

 

[Zipadeelady]

Some of you people with your mob mentality kills me. I think you need something to complain about.

The latest complaint from some of you "they won't even release a statement" then within the hour they do and you same people say "they didn't tell us enough"

Don't ride it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So the statement says really nothing.

I’ve seen some online reviews/vloggers that indicate it’s a hotbox...never a better time to test that than now during - heat wave.

As I first feared...AC is not optional in Florida. Enjoy that cable car, kids

 

[n2hifi]

My problem is Disney's statement contains two excuses: placing blame on the manufacturer and the start/stop problem with the nature of ski lifts in general. The fact that they didn't say "looking for ways to improve reliability and shorten downtime, as well as innovative ways to making boarding quicker to lesson the start/stop" says to me they aren't even trying and they won't spend an extra dime on this.

Did we read the same statement? Because I read the statement as the manufacturer blaming processes and staff training, not equipment. And that Disney was going to improve training and communications to improve reliability.

 

[Bender123]

Some of you people with your mob mentality kills me. I think you need something to complain about.

The latest complaint from some of you "they won't even release a statement" then within the hour they do and you same people say "they didn't tell us enough"

Don't ride it.

Its what the internet does best...

Honestly, Im happy nothing bad came of this and am happy this issue was found and corrected, whatever it is. With any human run system, you are going to get human created problems. People here will talk about the monorail as if its a fool proof system...they love ignoring that it has burst into flames, killed a kid, breaks down frequently and (mostly) has no A/C either.

Everyone has an angle and people like to nitpick.

 

[Allyp]

The fact that they didn't say "looking for ways to improve reliability and shorten downtime, as well as innovative ways to making boarding quicker to lesson the start/stop" says to me they aren't even trying and they won't spend an extra dime on this.

Just because they didn't outline that in this statement, why would you believe they aren't trying to minimize the impact of the start/stop? The system has been open to guests for a total of seven days now. Shouldn't we give them some time to figure things out from a continuous flow of guests?

 

[monothingie]

The latest complaint from some of you "they won't even release a statement" then within the hour they do and you same people say "they didn't tell us enough"

Don't ride it.

Forget for a moment wondering about what happened, knowing full well it will never be publicly disclosed, but more importantly, aren't you at all curious to know what steps are being taken by TWDC to ensure the problems which occurred AFTER the incident aren't repeated, god forbid something similar happens again in the future?

You would think that after such a public system failure there would be more communications with the guests rather than saying everything's good now, these things happen sometimes on similar systems, just trust us...

 

[Zipadeelady]

Did we read the same statement? Because I read the statement as the manufacturer blaming processes and staff training, not equipment. And that Disney was going to improve training and communications to improve reliability.

Exactly!

 

[flynnibus]

The latest complaint from some of you "they won't even release a statement" then within the hour they do and you same people say "they didn't tell us enough"

your attention to detail is lacking. Go back and look at who posted again...

 

[VaderTron]

Ignoring safety advise cannot be justified by saying it wasn't for profit it was just for customer enjoyment. Either one has the potential to make one very dead. Not very enjoyable. It was as dumb as doing it for profit, one is no less dead because they weren't trying to make money off it. Indirectly the were, of course, because if they are making the customers experience better it is to bring them back or add others to the customer pool. No Disney Park was ever built, including the original, because it was never thought of as an income source. No charity was involved at all. Just because having the park was a dream of Walt, doesn't mean it built it just to make people feel good, he did it for money and if it hadn't made money no one would be feeling good.

The point wasn't to justify the poor safety decisons of the past. They were equally wrong. I was highlighting that both safety AND customer experience are now at the back of the line behind profits.

The difference is some people want to make money AND ALSO want people to have the best time possible and strike a balance between "give me every cent you have" and "I want you to enjoy this experience as much as I do". That was Walt. That is not Dis Corp.

 

[Zipadeelady]

Forget for a moment wondering about what happened, knowing full well it will never be publicly disclosed, but more importantly, aren't you at all curious to know what steps are being taken by TWDC to ensure the problems which occurred AFTER the incident aren't repeated, god forbid something similar happens again in the future?

You would think that after such a public system failure there would be more communications with the guests rather than saying everything's good now, these things happen sometimes on similar systems, just trust us...

No, I don't need to know every single detail of an issue that has occured. I know they will fix the issue so it won't be repeated. I trust that they are doing what needs to be done for the safety of anyone who is riding. Do you think they want you to crash, die of heat exhaustion, drown from falling into hourglass lake, dangle for hours and have lawsuits against them. No.

And seriously, did Disney really say "everything is good now and this sometimes happens on similar systems" or was that one of the other mobsters in the thread.

 

[Timmay]

It's not exclusionary in any sense. Their processes they improved could have been about 'what to do when something fails' or it could have been simply 'sequence' things after their restart, or it could have been about the role of spotters, or it could have been about what/who/when e-stops are called... or it could have been any or all of the above... or other things.

The only thing it doesn't mention is a specific equipment failure or design issue... but because Disney didn't say explicitly anything... you can't really exclude those just because they didn't mention it.

In effect... it says nothing concrete. It's not about 'root cause' familiarity.. it's about PR. How to say things to give an impression without really committing to anything.

For all we know... the same outcome could still be possible and rely solely on human elements to prevent. You can't tell either way from such statements by Disney.

Look, I get you. I am a complete believer in absolute transparency. I live by it...and because of that I’ve had some direct conflict with PIO’s after an incident. But also I’ve got plenty of experience in working with those PIO’s and understand why certain statements are made and some are omitted. The structure of the statement, as well as the week of downtime, leads me to believe this was the failure of someone to follow the laid out process and procedure. So...

Of course the same outcome could happen again depending solely on human elements. That’s the nature and product of human nature. And I fully expect something like this to happen again based on human nature. Could be a year from now or ten. Wouldn’t be a shock to me at all.

 

[Patcheslee]

These are the lessons that I have learned over my 71 years. People get killed in cars so I'm never going to ride in a car again. People get killed in trains, boats and buses so they are off my list as well. Motorcycles? Are you kidding me. Everyday there are many deaths related to accidents involving bicycles. People have fallen while using roller skates, hit their heads and died, they are out also. A lady was killed while walking on the sidewalk here last week, walking is now a no-no! I read somewhere that someone slipped and fell while taking a shower, bathing is now off the table. I guess that from now on it is going to be sitting in the house, dirty, smelly and unhappy, but, until I have that heart attack caused by inactivity I'm sure not going to ride in a Gondola and get stuck for a couple hours. That seems like suicide!

You forgot bunk beds are hazardous
Edited because auto correct hates me lol

 

[Zipadeelady]

your attention to detail is lacking. Go back and look at who posted again...

What's lacking,

people are complaining there is no statement

statement made

people complaining that the statement wasn't good enough or didn't have enough information.

Some will complain about anything just to complain.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Anyone else wonder if the odd hours for this week are for software/hardware updates?

 

[wdwmagic]

Anyone else wonder if the odd hours for this week are for software/hardware updates?

Yep or possibly operator training.

 

[flynnibus]

Of course the same outcome could happen again depending solely on human elements. That’s the nature and product of human nature. And I fully expect something like this to happen again based on human nature. Could be a year from now or ten. Wouldn’t be a shock to me at all.

My point is the statement as made does not make any conclusion possible to say if the outcome we had was supposed to be prevented by the control system, or if it solely relied on the operators to prevent. Those are VERY different categories of design and newsworth (IMO) if the outcome was intended to be 'impossible' and controlled by the automation, or if it was a scenario by design to be controlled by operators.. and thus the responsibility is on them.

Yes, in many scenarios it is acceptable to say 'this can ultimately happen if the human processes fail' - but we also have some transparency in what we expect to be human gated vs what we expect the control systems to be designed to prevent.

This statement does not really exclude any root causes or give insight into consideration of how the outcome was reached.
- Was it a system failure and operators overrode it?
- Was it a system failure that required operators to intervene and they failed to?
- Was it an operational mistake that the operators overrode the control system?
- Was it an operational mistake that the system was not designed to ID and intervene?

I have my own theories... but frankly not enough hard points to stand firm on. Disney's brushing this under the rug is the poster child for why people think self-regulation doesn't work.