A long time Disney fan turns sour!

[goofy5380]

The big problem is crowds though. At least, that's what I gather from everyone complaining on the forums. How would calling them out on crowds do anything? They've done their job, and very well to that point. They've become so popular that there is no longer a slow time. I can't imagine a better business model for a vacation destination. Sure, they could pick up the pace on expansions and make some other small tweaks here and there. But, for the most part, I don't think Disney sees big crowds as a problem.

understand, good for corporate...they are just not gonna get my $$ unless they physically expand the parks..

 

[Driver]

My .02 cents about busses. I saw a remark about bus service to Port Orleans being poor. Just to be clear the busses are dispatched through the parks. There is no such thing as a AoA bus or Port Orleans. All busses are dispatched at random and on an as needed basis. If you're saying a resort has bad bus service it would be a huge coincidence that all the parks conspired against that particular resort. At the same time I don't disagree that guest are waiting for busses. I hear about it, but no one ever gives kudos when they don't have to wait and get the bus to themselves. Yes this happens everyday. My post was not to take a side, it was to clarify how busses are dispatched. And every attempt is made to give all guest good service.

 

[eliza61nyc]

I've never understood how people don't enjoy themselves on vacation. As a child, vacations came maybe once every 4 years. It could've rained every day and been crowded, but if I was at Disney I was happy. I'm not saying OP is this way, but I think some people are much too privileged for their own good. Seriously, enjoy the fact that you're on vacation with loved ones. There are a lot of children who's parents can't afford a trip to Disney.

Ok I'll bite.
LOL, I got stuck in a hurricane on my honeymoon. Yes I was with the man I loved and we had 30 wonderful years together before he lost his battle with cancer but sorry THE HONEYMOON SUCKED!! lol we laughed about it and had many good stories from it but I see no point in sprinkling pixie dust in my eyes and pretending every thing is good simply because it was our honeymoon. it was the trip from hell.


Now truthfully I don't see how you call it privileged, as a general rule I work ridiculously hard and spend a lot of money for a vacation. I'm not privileged, Disney is not giving anything away for free. so by your reasoning because I'm at Disney with my family I have to accept whatever treatment someone gives me??? hum no, not going to happen.

Once again, not understanding the last part. I'm very aware there are children starving in Africa as the old saying goes, If I get a crappy meal at Disneyworld and don't say something are they no longer starving? I am extremely aware that as an American I'm probably way above the standard of living for a lot of the world but once again that in no way means I have to accept any poor service just because I happen to be born in NYC as opposed to Nairobi

Now Disney is suffering from a serious overcrowding issue. You can pretend all the day long that they don't but it doesn't make it less true. I can be happy with my family in our back yard but when we go on vacation it's for specific reasons (depending on where we go) if we go to Disney and can't ride the rides we want, if the room is dirty and it takes forever to get problems corrected, that effects the vacation. maybe I haven't achieve the level of zen you have but some things do affect my level of enjoyment.

 

[WondersOfLife]

I cannot remember a time when there was a walk-on at every ride.

There definitely was a time where almost every ride could be a walk-on... But that's honestly NOT a good thing for a theme park. If there are a lot of walk-on attractions in a park, then something is wrong, if that attraction isn't an omnimover or a freaking 1,000 seat traveling theater.

Walk on attractions shouldn't exist if they can be replaced with something bigger and better. Universal learned from this. Goodbye Back to the Future, Jaws, Terminator, Dragon Challenge, ect.

Disney's prime example of NOT following this trend is Epcot.

 

[larryz]

Sadly, there are plenty of people to take your place should you decide to never return. And because of that, corporate has very little incentive to fix the issues.

 

[NickMaio]

I don’t post here very often but I read the forums all the time. So, believe me when I say I’m not here to stir anything up. I just wanted to relay my thoughts from my recent trip (Dec 10 – 16).

I just got back from my 14th trip to Disney World and I have to say I was disappointed. For the first time ever, I have to say I don’t look forward to going back. My family started going back in 2002 so I may not be a super Disney goer but I have been enough times that I have plenty of experience and have seen things come and go.

We stayed in an Art of Animation Nemo suite. The room was nice enough with a few things wrong … the fridge didn’t work, the remote in the bedroom wouldn’t turn the TV on, the piece that keeps water in the shower from coming out under the door was missing, and a light over the table was blinking. Not terrible things but annoying.

The parks were crowded for an early December trip (10 – 16). However, I knew crowds have been picking up lately so not unexpected. I remember the days when a trip in December meant a walk on, on all rides!

But here is what really got me. Disney is chipping away at its exceptional guest experience. This is the first trip that I CAN'T say felt awesome or magical. I have worked for a large corporation for better than 20 years and they do the same thing. They chip away at their employees until they can no longer give their loyalty. In fact, I have quit that job and moved on. The same thing is happening to Disney. In the past, I would have argued anyone down that Disney was the best vacation a family would ever take. But not anymore. Like at my former job my loyalty to Disney is fading.

So, what is different? I have been thinking about it and this is just some of the things I have come up with.

Fastpass+

This system is not thought out well and I believe has ruined a positive Disney experience for guests. 60 days prior to arrival I logged in to make my fast pass reservations. Much to my surprise there were no Avatar Flight of Passage or Frozen or Seven Dwarf Mine Train fast passes until 5 days into our trip. What? NO fast passes? I finally got a fast pass for Avatar Flight of Passage for a Thursday night but there was one problem with that. We were going to EPCOT that morning. Therefore, we could make no fast passes for EPCOT that day. You can’t have fast passes spanning parks. Also, how am I supposed to know two months in advance what ride I want to ride at what time. This is beyond crazy. People who know me know that I am a big planner. I have multiple spreadsheets and create food lists and all sorts of things. But when it comes down to it, you just can’t always know exactly where you want to be on any particular day and certainly not minute by minute. And heaven forbid you might change your mind and want to go to a park you haven't planned for. I pity the folks who can’t plan the way I do. I bet they don’t get to do anything at Disney with this new system.

In addition, the system of fast passes is driving traffic to other rides. I saw a 40 minute wait for The Land! During a “slow” time, “off season” time there was a 40 minute wait for The Land! Now, I have read on this great forum that Disney wanted to do that. But now there are no rides that have short waits. This can really make for a long day. What do you do when you are waiting for your fast pass. I guess you wait 40 minutes for The Land.


Food

We got the free quick service dining this time. We have had it many times before. We no longer want the table service dining. First everything was covered. Then tips were not covered. Then you no longer could get appetizers. And I don’t know what all may have changed since the last time we had that plan. Can you see the trend? Chipping away at the guest experience until someone like me no longer even wants it. The quick service food is the same way. Disney has streamlined everything. You can get the same hot dog no matter where you go. The thing is I don’t want the same hot dog or hamburger everywhere. The choices are really limited too. I can remember when quick service restaurants had all kinds of choices, including free hot cheese which my daughters loved. Sorry, they don’t have the cheese any more or maybe they do for a buck. (Chipping Away!)


Buses

Don’t even get me started on the buses. Waited 45 minutes on a bus at Disney Springs. Stood on every single bus back and forth from the parks except maybe once. They let every single scooter and their families on the bus FIRST even if I had been waiting there forever and they just pulled up. The driver refused to go until we had so many people standing we couldn’t even move. “Keep moving back! I can see you can still breathing there sir so there must not be enough people on this bus!” If a bus had an accident we would most likely all be dead. If I drove around with no seat belt I would get a ticket. How can they get away with 10000 people on one bus? You talk about not a good guest experience. That may be the worst of them all! Or how about when they drop you off, not at your bus stop, but at no place in particular nowhere close to the park.


Anyway, sorry for my rambling on. Maybe it’s just me. Maybe I’m getting older and I don’t see things the same way I used to. But I won’t be going back for a while. A long, long while. Disney has chipped away at costs and such until they have ruined my guest experience. I don’t pay top dollar to go to Disney so I can go to an average park. If I wanted that I’d going to that other place. They need to get back to what made them great and not just settle for “okay” with a lot more profit.

Amen- Brother or Sister.
I am sure someone for Disney has read your post - thanks for sharing.

You are NOT alone. We too feel that Disney is bean counting and looking out for shareholders versus park patrons. Which is strange because before Disney was a publicly traded company it was a theme park.
Things have been shifting - and not for the better - This past summer was the first summer in 11 yearS we did NOT go back to WDW.
Too many cuts and not a positive experience when you go home.

Not sure when we will go back???

Also be sure to share your displease with Disney directly.
https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/en_CA/help/phone/

 

[NickMaio]

Some people feel that Disney needs to change with competition.
Just a thought - Disney has no competition. They have the largest time ownership group in the world. They are their own competition. Look at the numbers - the consistently hold the 1-2-3-4 spots for attendance in North America every year. DIsney generates its own electricity and water system.
It is a separate community - Reedy Creek - from Orlando.
All the amenities and special treatments they offered in the past could still be offered today. Disney chooses to remove them
At the end of the day it is about $$$ - money today instead of money tomorrow.
If more people stop returning to WDW that is future revenue lost - - right now it does not seem to concern the WDW theme park division - however I feel, and prob the original poster, that this will change.
They will eventually take notice and feedback more seriously.

 

[thomas998]

I don’t post here very often but I read the forums all the time. So, believe me when I say I’m not here to stir anything up. I just wanted to relay my thoughts from my recent trip (Dec 10 – 16).

I just got back from my 14th trip to Disney World and I have to say I was disappointed. For the first time ever, I have to say I don’t look forward to going back. My family started going back in 2002 so I may not be a super Disney goer but I have been enough times that I have plenty of experience and have seen things come and go.

We stayed in an Art of Animation Nemo suite. The room was nice enough with a few things wrong … the fridge didn’t work, the remote in the bedroom wouldn’t turn the TV on, the piece that keeps water in the shower from coming out under the door was missing, and a light over the table was blinking. Not terrible things but annoying.

The parks were crowded for an early December trip (10 – 16). However, I knew crowds have been picking up lately so not unexpected. I remember the days when a trip in December meant a walk on, on all rides!

But here is what really got me. Disney is chipping away at its exceptional guest experience. This is the first trip that I CAN'T say felt awesome or magical. I have worked for a large corporation for better than 20 years and they do the same thing. They chip away at their employees until they can no longer give their loyalty. In fact, I have quit that job and moved on. The same thing is happening to Disney. In the past, I would have argued anyone down that Disney was the best vacation a family would ever take. But not anymore. Like at my former job my loyalty to Disney is fading.

So, what is different? I have been thinking about it and this is just some of the things I have come up with.

Fastpass+

This system is not thought out well and I believe has ruined a positive Disney experience for guests. 60 days prior to arrival I logged in to make my fast pass reservations. Much to my surprise there were no Avatar Flight of Passage or Frozen or Seven Dwarf Mine Train fast passes until 5 days into our trip. What? NO fast passes? I finally got a fast pass for Avatar Flight of Passage for a Thursday night but there was one problem with that. We were going to EPCOT that morning. Therefore, we could make no fast passes for EPCOT that day. You can’t have fast passes spanning parks. Also, how am I supposed to know two months in advance what ride I want to ride at what time. This is beyond crazy. People who know me know that I am a big planner. I have multiple spreadsheets and create food lists and all sorts of things. But when it comes down to it, you just can’t always know exactly where you want to be on any particular day and certainly not minute by minute. And heaven forbid you might change your mind and want to go to a park you haven't planned for. I pity the folks who can’t plan the way I do. I bet they don’t get to do anything at Disney with this new system.

In addition, the system of fast passes is driving traffic to other rides. I saw a 40 minute wait for The Land! During a “slow” time, “off season” time there was a 40 minute wait for The Land! Now, I have read on this great forum that Disney wanted to do that. But now there are no rides that have short waits. This can really make for a long day. What do you do when you are waiting for your fast pass. I guess you wait 40 minutes for The Land.


Food

We got the free quick service dining this time. We have had it many times before. We no longer want the table service dining. First everything was covered. Then tips were not covered. Then you no longer could get appetizers. And I don’t know what all may have changed since the last time we had that plan. Can you see the trend? Chipping away at the guest experience until someone like me no longer even wants it. The quick service food is the same way. Disney has streamlined everything. You can get the same hot dog no matter where you go. The thing is I don’t want the same hot dog or hamburger everywhere. The choices are really limited too. I can remember when quick service restaurants had all kinds of choices, including free hot cheese which my daughters loved. Sorry, they don’t have the cheese any more or maybe they do for a buck. (Chipping Away!)


Buses

Don’t even get me started on the buses. Waited 45 minutes on a bus at Disney Springs. Stood on every single bus back and forth from the parks except maybe once. They let every single scooter and their families on the bus FIRST even if I had been waiting there forever and they just pulled up. The driver refused to go until we had so many people standing we couldn’t even move. “Keep moving back! I can see you can still breathing there sir so there must not be enough people on this bus!” If a bus had an accident we would most likely all be dead. If I drove around with no seat belt I would get a ticket. How can they get away with 10000 people on one bus? You talk about not a good guest experience. That may be the worst of them all! Or how about when they drop you off, not at your bus stop, but at no place in particular nowhere close to the park.


Anyway, sorry for my rambling on. Maybe it’s just me. Maybe I’m getting older and I don’t see things the same way I used to. But I won’t be going back for a while. A long, long while. Disney has chipped away at costs and such until they have ruined my guest experience. I don’t pay top dollar to go to Disney so I can go to an average park. If I wanted that I’d going to that other place. They need to get back to what made them great and not just settle for “okay” with a lot more profit.

In general I agree Disney has changed over the years and not for the better. But we hit other amusement parks on a fairly regular basis and the reality is they have all declined from what they once were some more than Disney others maybe not as much... but change is inevitable. I know we aren't as loyal as we once were to Disney because 10 years ago we would do a trip to Orlando and the entire time would be Disney and do those trip at least twice a year... Now we usually only hit Disney for maybe 4 days on a trip to Orlando and only do it once a year. I suggest you do the same... I wish everyone would do the same because then Disney might see that their loyal customers aren't sheep that will continually be herded into their parks no matter what.

 

[NickMaio]

- Disney's prime example of NOT following this trend is Epcot. -

Yet, Epcot is the number 6 attended theme park in the world and has been for quite some time.

 

[NickMaio]

In general I agree Disney has changed over the years and not for the better. But we hit other amusement parks on a fairly regular basis and the reality is they have all declined from what they once were some more than Disney others maybe not as much... but change is inevitable. I know we aren't as loyal as we once were to Disney because 10 years ago we would do a trip to Orlando and the entire time would be Disney and do those trip at least twice a year... Now we usually only hit Disney for maybe 4 days on a trip to Orlando and only do it once a year. I suggest you do the same... I wish everyone would do the same because then Disney might see that their loyal customers aren't sheep that will continually be herded into their parks no matter what.

Disney was always the exception to this rule - They knew this, it was part of their corporate philosophy - It was why they charged more than any other Theme park group. For a time it was worth it.
This has changed - they have allowed their company and guest experience to falter.

 

[Lisa t]

It's the planning that's sucked some of the magic out of a vacation there. I don't want to plan 6 months ahead what day I'm going to spend at which theme park. I really enjoyed my last trip at Disneyland because I could get dinner reservations the day before and there was no, we have to get to the park NOW to use that first fast pass.

 

[thomas998]

Some people feel that Disney needs to change with competition.
Just a thought - Disney has no competition. They have the largest time ownership group in the world. They are their own competition. Look at the numbers - the consistently hold the 1-2-3-4 spots for attendance in North America every year. DIsney generates its own electricity and water system.
It is a separate community - Reedy Creek - from Orlando.
All the amenities and special treatments they offered in the past could still be offered today. Disney chooses to remove them
At the end of the day it is about $$$ - money today instead of money tomorrow.
If more people stop returning to WDW that is future revenue lost - - right now it does not seem to concern the WDW theme park division - however I feel, and prob the original poster, that this will change.
They will eventually take notice and feedback more seriously.

Not sure they will change in my lifetime. The reality is the parks only hold a finite number of people. The population continues to grow meaning the number of potential customers they have just grows larger and larger. While a number of folks like myself will cut back on the amount of time we spend at Disney because of their cheapness the reality is they don't care and don't need to because they pool the get visitors from just gets bigger and bigger and there are clearly people that don't care that they don't behave the way the used to. As long as they can get enough people to fill their parks that don't care there is no reason to expect them to suddenly start to care themselves. Only when attendance starts showing a downward trend will they ever change things.

Think about it from the standpoint of the person that is over the parks. He is going to be getting constant pressure to increase the income his operating units generate. Spending money is only going to happen when it has, but he can't really cram more people in the parks beyond a certain number so his only options are going to be cutting costs. Whether it means fewer CMs in stores or eliminating liquid cheese those are about the only tools he has to make himself look better and to keep his job. I understand why it is happening... I just don't enjoy experiencing it as a visitor.

 

[thomas998]

It's the planning that's sucked some of the magic out of a vacation there. I don't want to plan 6 months ahead what day I'm going to spend at which theme park. I really enjoyed my last trip at Disneyland because I could get dinner reservations the day before and there was no, we have to get to the park NOW to use that first fast pass.

But imagine if they didn't do any dining reservations. How would that be? You wanted to eat breakfast in the castle you would be forced to get up and get to the park and hour or two before it opened, then make a mad dash to the castle only to find that others were even faster runners and now you have to stand in line just to eat... You wanted lunch at Be Our Guest, well you would probably be standing in line from the time the rope dropped until the time you ate. I hate having to make reservations so far out, but the reality is that life without the reservations would be even worse.

 

[NelleBelle]

Not sure where I heard this (most likely it was here somewhere, and I'm just summarizing what I did hear into a "nut shell", so please take with a large grain of salt) but it's been said that TDC is not focused on repeat/return guests. Their focus is on first-time guests and squeezing (er, maximizing) every dollar they can out of them, knowing that this is likely a once-in-a-life-time trip, therefore the guests are willing to spend a lot more money. My guess is if these first-timers have no clue how things used to be, they aren't complaining about crowds, prices, customer service, transportation, etc. The thought is that these guests won't return for another 10 years, as that's how long it will take for them to save-up/pay off their 1st trip.

I have to say that our family took a 6-7 year hiatus from WDW (we did DLR a couple times since we are on the west coast and started doing disney cruises--that's where the customer service went to). When we finally went back last year...yes, we did see all the decline/changes everyone has mentioned here, but we also found that we weren't nearly as bothered by it as we would've been if we had continued to go annually. Reducing trips may not send a message to the execs and P&R, but there really is something to the saying of "absence makes the heart grow fonder," that may give you a positive change personally.

 

[Sonconato]

Ok I'll bite.
LOL, I got stuck in a hurricane on my honeymoon. Yes I was with the man I loved and we had 30 wonderful years together before he lost his battle with cancer but sorry THE HONEYMOON SUCKED!! lol we laughed about it and had many good stories from it but I see no point in sprinkling pixie dust in my eyes and pretending every thing is good simply because it was our honeymoon. it was the trip from hell.


Now truthfully I don't see how you call it privileged, as a general rule I work ridiculously hard and spend a lot of money for a vacation. I'm not privileged, Disney is not giving anything away for free. so by your reasoning because I'm at Disney with my family I have to accept whatever treatment someone gives me??? hum no, not going to happen.

Once again, not understanding the last part. I'm very aware there are children starving in Africa as the old saying goes, If I get a crappy meal at Disneyworld and don't say something are they no longer starving? I am extremely aware that as an American I'm probably way above the standard of living for a lot of the world but once again that in no way means I have to accept any poor service just because I happen to be born in NYC as opposed to Nairobi

Now Disney is suffering from a serious overcrowding issue. You can pretend all the day long that they don't but it doesn't make it less true. I can be happy with my family in our back yard but when we go on vacation it's for specific reasons (depending on where we go) if we go to Disney and can't ride the rides we want, if the room is dirty and it takes forever to get problems corrected, that effects the vacation. maybe I haven't achieve the level of zen you have but some things do affect my level of enjoyment.

Well said. I'm truly sorry for your loss of your husband

 

[Magenta Panther]

Yeah, I hear you. My next visit to Florida will consist of my staying at Universal and using Mears to visit WDW for a day to hit up the attractions I like. I have a hard time patronizing the Robert Iger Company when it refuses to fix a ride because it's too cheap and contemptuous of the customers to do so (yes, I'm talking about the Everest Yeti figure again) and does such a poor job on a Presidential AA (what happened to the once-vaunted artistry of the Imagineers?) Meanwhile Iger has lots of money to buy up other studios. His priorities are based on plain greed. Walt would spit on him. I'll always be a Walt Disney fan. But I am NOT a Disney Company fan with the leadership it has now. Thanks for having the guts to say what many of us here are feeling.

 

[DisneyDoctor]

Ok I'll bite.
LOL, I got stuck in a hurricane on my honeymoon. Yes I was with the man I loved and we had 30 wonderful years together before he lost his battle with cancer but sorry THE HONEYMOON SUCKED!! lol we laughed about it and had many good stories from it but I see no point in sprinkling pixie dust in my eyes and pretending every thing is good simply because it was our honeymoon. it was the trip from hell.


Now truthfully I don't see how you call it privileged, as a general rule I work ridiculously hard and spend a lot of money for a vacation. I'm not privileged, Disney is not giving anything away for free. so by your reasoning because I'm at Disney with my family I have to accept whatever treatment someone gives me??? hum no, not going to happen.

Once again, not understanding the last part. I'm very aware there are children starving in Africa as the old saying goes, If I get a crappy meal at Disneyworld and don't say something are they no longer starving? I am extremely aware that as an American I'm probably way above the standard of living for a lot of the world but once again that in no way means I have to accept any poor service just because I happen to be born in NYC as opposed to Nairobi

Now Disney is suffering from a serious overcrowding issue. You can pretend all the day long that they don't but it doesn't make it less true. I can be happy with my family in our back yard but when we go on vacation it's for specific reasons (depending on where we go) if we go to Disney and can't ride the rides we want, if the room is dirty and it takes forever to get problems corrected, that effects the vacation. maybe I haven't achieve the level of zen you have but some things do affect my level of enjoyment.

Now I definitely understand how that would've been a pretty bad trip haha. I'm sorry that happened. Privilege may not have been the right word. Maybe entitled. I just think some people, and I'm not saying anyone in particular is this way, expect their vacation to be flawless. That's rarely the case. When things do go sour no one is able to roll with the punches and just enjoy vacation. I'm just happy to be in a different state with family and loved ones. Crowds, bad food, etc. are all external factors that I can't necessarily control. I can complain, but in the end that won't help mitigate the problems. It'll make the problems seem worse than they really are and then I've helped create this idea that Disney ruined my vacation and wasted my money.

Is it poor service though? Or just bad food? I can't remember what OP described about the food, I think it may have been the prices. Anyways, you have the right to complain all you want. No one can make you stop. But, there are other outside factors that may be affecting the service. Maybe the server had a bad day. Maybe someone called in sick so the others had to pick up the slack. Disney dining is no different than the restaurant down the street in your home town. It's real life people doing their best to make your experience worthwhile.

Disney definitely has a crowd issue. The evidence is literally the crowd levels lol. But, I will say that this is information readily available online. If big crowds aren't your thing, maybe a trip to Disney isn't the right destination.

I don't think it's zen, either. I think we complain too much as a society. This fuels a sort of vicious circle of pessimism and negative outlook. Sprinkle in some negativity from our favorite social media sites or good morning America or whatever, and it's nearly impossible to break the cycle. People just aren't happy, at Disney nonetheless.

Thanks for responding btw, I appreciate it! I really think this a topic worth discussing.

 

[Weather_Lady]

Katiebug?

Goodness, no -- Katiebug would have complained that she and her royal children weren't driven through Cinderella Castle in a horse-drawn carriage stocked with champagne and McDonald's fries, and had to ride the smelly old bus instead! She would whine that they "didn't show the Electric Light Parade, even once!" during her trip, and sniff that when she showed up three hours late to her ADR at her "favorite" restaurant Hollywood & Vine, her table hadn't been held for her.

Reasonable minds might disagree about the OP's feelings and whether they're justified, but those feelings are clearly at least grounded in reality and an actual, working knowledge of the parks.

 

[DryerLintFan]

Goodness, no -- Katiebug would have complained that she and her royal children weren't driven through Cinderella Castle in a horse-drawn carriage stocked with champagne and McDonald's fries, and had to ride the smelly old bus instead! She would whine that they "didn't show the Electric Light Parade, even once!" during her trip, and sniff that when she showed up three hours late to her ADR at her "favorite" restaurant Hollywood & Vine, her table hadn't been held for her.

Reasonable minds might disagree about the OP's feelings and whether they're justified, but those feelings are clearly at least grounded in reality and an actual, working knowledge of the parks.

Champagne and McDonald's fries sounds like an oddly delicious pairing

 

[21stamps]

I’ve come to realize something over the past 3 years-

The planning stress/timetables is no one’s fault but our own. It isn’t necessary to have “a magical trip”. The internet makes us think that it is, but it’s not.