Is Disney Paying Its Fair Share in Orlando?

[Darkbeer1]

Hi folks, I don't normally post in the Florida section, because my knowledge is much more California Focused, but have some decent basic knowledge of Florida due to the overall company knowledge, and from Universal Florida and other theme/Amusement parks History But not too much into the government dealings. (I do have a good knowledge of the airport history and the plays Disney tried to control the access in transportation.

So I should introduce myself just in case you don't know who I am. My name is David Michael, and I covered the Disneyland Resort during the 1990's and early 2000's when Disney was planning major expansion in the area with the Disneyland Resort and DCA version 1.0 to 2.0 and beyond. I wrote and photographed for many folks, including traditional print and multiple Disney and Theme Park related websites.

So recently, the Los Angeles Times Newspaper ran a series of articles with the headline of "Is Disney paying its fair share in Anaheim?' with the basic premise about tax revenues the city gets, and the attitude of some that the city is getting the shaft. here is a link to the WDW Magic Forum thread discussing the article and other related information disputing the original article.

https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/la-times-is-disney-paying-its-fair-share-in-anaheim.933818/

So I want those in the know in Florida, especially from a governmental angle, Was the original deal between Disney and Orlando fair, did it create enough in tax revenue? How about expansion projects, did the state, regional and local governments get a benefit in tax and fee revenue?

Should Disney be paying more? Is Disney paying too much of its profits to Florida? Or is it a good deal for everyone?

Thanks in advance for addressing the same basic question as was asked about the Disneyland Resort in Anaheim...

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Walt Disney World isn't in Orlando, so the question is largely irrelevant. There's no real analogue in Florida to the city-owned parking garage in Anaheim. For the most part, WDW uses relatively little of Orlando's infrastructure, with the exception of I-4. But there's some kind of deal between Disney and Orlando that involves Disney chipping in for road maintenance above normal taxable income.

Plus, WDW is much more hotel-intensive than Disneyland. That 12.5% occupancy tax on every room night adds up to a huge tax bill every year.

 

[nickys]

Isn't the issue with Disneyland the fact that it's smack bang actually in Anaheim?

WDW isn't in Orlando, so it's presence isn't "detrimental" to the city, it isn't using resources that impact the Orlando inhabitants.

I don't see there's any similarity to Disneyland wrt to the question.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

WDW has a cherry deal with the state of FL, where they have their own "district". The RCID (Reedy Creek Improvement District). It gives Disney the ability of oversee their own operations with very little gov't influence. It's only when Disney gets caught doing things like dumping paint into the water supply, does anyone pay attention to them.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

WDW has a cherry deal with the state of FL, where they have their own "district". The RCID (Reedy Creek Improvement District). It gives Disney the ability of oversee their own operations with very little gov't influence. It's only when Disney gets caught doing things like dumping paint into the water supply, does anyone pay attention to them.

This is complete BS and you know it. RCID gets Disney out of having to deal with city governments, which is wholly appropriate as the resort is effectively a city unto itself. RCID doesn't do anything to get them out of state and federal regulations, which is why they have to spend millions of dollars buying up wetlands whenever they want to do some development on the land they own.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Who gets the TOT taxes from WDW, does one agency get it all, is it shared? Does Reedy Creek get any to reinvest on WDW?

How about the Sales Tax, does Reedy Creek get a cut?

And property taxes, what share goes where?

 

[Darkbeer1]

And yes, I know the fact about not being in the city limits, but for a headline it work.

A more detailed question would be is Orange and Osceola Counties, Florida and the state getting its fair share?

 

[AndyS2992]

Disney is Florida’s biggest employer directly and indirectly, it has made Florida America’s #1 Tourist destination bringing in billions for the economy, it’s gives tons of charity to local causes, Disney just being there raises property value for land and property owners. Without Disney the area would be very very different. Without Disney there would be no SeaWorld, Universal, Legoland, hundreds of hotels and attractions in the area. Disney is doing more than enough and only Disney knows the true ins and outs so no point really in speculating. I’m sure the bills and taxes Disney pays to the government and local authorities are more than generous.

What is Disney’s fair share to you? What should it be? Why just Disney? Are Universal, SeaWorld, Florida Mall, McDonald’s doing their fair share?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

And yes, I know the fact about not being in the city limits, but for a headline it work.

A more detailed question would be is Orange and Osceola Counties, Florida and the state getting its fair share?

Disney paid $100 million in property taxes alone to Orange County. Yeah, I'd say they pay their fair share.

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2017/...ersal-studios-fight-tax-bills-in-florida.html

 

[POLY LOVER]

You can't have this discussion without noting what the Disney vacuum does to the local small merchants, particularly hotels that are now getting squeezed out as Disney builds more and more rooms at all price levels. Disneys gives and Disney takes. you have to also consider that Disney does not pay a living wage for most employees and that hurts the locals. They keep most workers on a part time basis but work them full time. If it all balances out only number crunching can get that answer.

I'll add that universal is doing the same.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

You can't have this discussion without noting what the Disney vacuum does to the local small merchants, particularly hotels that are now getting squeezed out as Disney builds more and more rooms at all price levels.

Every single one of those hotels owes its very existence to Walt Disney World. They'd be a lot worse off without Disney than with it.

Disneys gives and Disney takes. you have to also consider that Disney does not pay a living wage for most employees and that hurts the locals.

Once again, without Disney, those folks would be in much worse shape. Even with less than a "living wage" (a mythical non-term based in economic ignorance), they'd either be unemployed or, for many of them, wouldn't have immigrated to the United States in the first place. It takes a confused mind to come up with the idea that it's better for 60,000 people to be unemployed than for them to be employed at a wage you deem to be unsatisfactory.

They keep most workers on a part time basis but work them full time.

You honestly have no idea what you're talking about. If they did anything close to what you're describing they'd bet getting fines and penalties and lawsuits up the wazoo.

 

[networkpro]

Not a good comparison, more like apples to kumquats .
Take a look at the local population before and current for WDW and Disneyland. Before DL it was a little over 200K and now its a little over 350K. Orlando had ~500K and now hovers around 2.5 million.
Anaheim is totally built out, nothing but concrete for miles so redevelopment is the only way anything is going to change.

Theres not the same basic question between a California based attraction and a Florida based attraction, the state governments are far too different. Paying "fair share" is a loaded political term that has different meanings depending on whom you ask. Some believe that its Governments duty to redistribute earned income, Some believe that taxes should be the same rates for everyone and every company.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Thanks for your thoghts so far.

Let me state I disagreed with the LA Times piece, and as an Anaheim resident, not a fan of Mayor Tait, and even less of a fan of Dr. Moreno. Is Disney paying its fair share to Anaheim, for the most part yes. Are there issues with the new Eastern Gateway project that Disney needs to address to get the city's approval, Yes. The original proposal was too much Disney, and not enough to benefit the city. But that is a minor issue in the entire picture.

Looking forward to more responses.

 

[Rumrunner]

You can't have this discussion without noting what the Disney vacuum does to the local small merchants, particularly hotels that are now getting squeezed out as Disney builds more and more rooms at all price levels. Disneys gives and Disney takes. you have to also consider that Disney does not pay a living wage for most employees and that hurts the locals. They keep most workers on a part time basis but work them full time. If it all balances out only number crunching can get that answer.

I'll add that universal is doing the same.

Entry level jobs are not designed to pay a living wage-they are designed to give young people experience that they can use to advance their careers. There are thousands of high paying jobs in the Disney corporation and many of these employees started out as part time in those entry level jobs and worked their way up.

 

[DisneyFreak]

They keep most workers on a part time basis but work them full time.

Florida state part-time hours can be up to 30 hours a week.

 

[Goofyernmost]

You can't have this discussion without noting what the Disney vacuum does to the local small merchants, particularly hotels that are now getting squeezed out as Disney builds more and more rooms at all price levels. Disneys gives and Disney takes. you have to also consider that Disney does not pay a living wage for most employees and that hurts the locals. They keep most workers on a part time basis but work them full time. If it all balances out only number crunching can get that answer.

I'll add that universal is doing the same.

They are plenty nice to the local hotel owners. For one thing, they charge 5 times more then their competition and it is only the naivety of the public that affects that at all. There are thousands of operating, profitable non-disney resorts in the area. All Disney did was raise the bar a little, but, there is now and always will be a market for lower cost accommodations. The have provided the place for people to come and utilize all types of services that previously did not exist at all.

That living wage argument is getting old. No company provides living wages for all it's employees. If workers have a marketable skill they make a living wage and more, if not, then they are sometimes stuck in a less then ideal situation. All of Orlando/Kissimmee is primarily a tourist service area. Low skill level jobs are being filled by folks with skill level appropriate jobs with thousands of people standing in line to take over those jobs if one person decides not to be there anymore. Without Disney that whole area would be open fields and swamp land. If anything those cities owe Disney for their very existence. It probably isn't easy living next door to that giant gorilla, but, many people have made a lot of money because they were there. Disney got a deal, but, Florida has a cash cow that isn't likely to go away or outsource the company to third world nations as a whole.

 

[larryz]

Even with less than a "living wage" (a mythical non-term based in economic ignorance)...

I don't know what a "living wage" is, but I'd know it if I wasn't making it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It is more Osceola County that has typically felt left out of Disney’s tax dollars since the bulk of the developed property is in Orange County. Tourists don’t use Osceola County infrastructure in a manner proportionate to Disney’s development and the population has historically been poorer than Orange County.

Osceola County threatening to stop taxing Disney’s property holdings at agricultural rates in the mid-80s was part of the impetus behind Celebration.

 

[thomas998]

And yes, I know the fact about not being in the city limits, but for a headline it work.

A more detailed question would be is Orange and Osceola Counties, Florida and the state getting its fair share?

"Fair share" is usually a loaded question because it is impossible to define what "fair" is... but the state of Florida and the county that Disneyworld reside in get the same tax revenue from a mouse ear purchase that they would get if you bought it from a Walmart in Orlando... Considering the amount of revenue they gain from having Disney there vs what they would gain if the area Disney occupied was left as the swamp it once was... Well I think the county and state have done very well for themselves.

 

[EricsBiscuit]

Echoing other people's thoughts here. Disney does more than enough to pay it's fair share here. They pay taxes by the hundreds of millions, donate to charity and conserve land. Entry level jobs are rungs in the ladder of life at the lower end of the latter. You won't leave HS earning 40k. You do that after years of studying and hard work improving yourself.