How badly Leave a Legacy failed!

[Hakunamatata]

The first 3 sentences of the second paragraph of your post.

Beyond that, bringing up Extreme Makeover and Make-a-wish have nothing to do with the subject at hand. How are these equivalent to Leave a Legacy?

Well, it has everything to do with Disney being involved with something that does not turn a profit, which was part of Merf's contention that LAL was a complete and utter failure. So, it does have something to do with it since Disney is heavily involved with both of these charitable entities.

 

[Hakunamatata]

The forums would be a allot more dull without Merf for sure.

Actually, I dont find the forums to be dull to begin with, so I would have to say no, they wouldnt be more dull.

 

[The Mak]

Well, it has everything to do with Disney being involved with something that does not turn a profit, which was part of Merf's contention that LAL was a complete and utter failure. So, it does have something to do with it since Disney is heavily involved with both of these charitable entities.

Huge difference. Those are caritable non-profit business ventures. LaL was started for pure profit. $100 a tile when it first debuted and was never meant as a charity nor donated its earnings to a charity.

 

[polarboi]

Really, the point Merf was trying to make is simple: that the LaL project wasn't well designed and therefore underperformed. For Merf, the fact that the stones sold far less than (presumably) they were intended to sell is further proof that many people, not just the internet fans, were less than enthusiastic about the way LaL was designed and/or handled. I'd say that's pretty accurate.

I think it's a bit much to call LaL a "complete failure," since obviously it did raise some money and has served a purpose for many folks here. But I think most of us can also agree that LaL would probably have sold better if the design was more attractive and looked less like a war memorial, and that everyone would be well served by finding a way to spruce it up (wherever it might be) to make it more attractive and to eliminate empty stones.

-p.b.

 

[CBOMB]

really? because I have. and no im not talking about people in my party (though they complain about them too) I have heard other guests complain about them especially when leaving the park (I remember one guy on my last trip saying something to the effect of "its like an obstacle course to find the exit because of these damn things").
I've never heard one person compain about LaL. However I've seen a lot of people enjoying it.



I have seen kids climb on them. It is a liability for disney. Not sure about the bird crap but im sure thats there too.

I have never seen one person climb on LaL
I have never seen any bird dropings on LaL. I'm sure it gets cleaned on a regular bases.
I just negated every point you attempted to make.
See how easy it is to dismiss someone's opinion on a subject.

Perhaps there would be less criticism if opinion wernt posted as fact.


Just a thought.

I certainly feel your rational post has no place in this thread.

LaL was one of several options when you purchased a package vacation at WDW. They were never just given away to guest. A Character Breakfast was also one of the options. I would never consider a Character Breakfast a failure because Disney had to "give" them away.
I don't think many folks would be opposed to moving LaL to another section of the park, with a garden like setting. Now let's end this thread, and get on with trashing the hat At Disney Studios.

P.S. I look forward to visiting the title with my wife, and myself on it next time we are Epcot. It's always the first thing we do.

 

[mousermerf]

I think he just implied that merf complains about everything that isn't perfect and should probably find a hobby outside of WDW...no...Epcot. I appreciate merf's pictures since he seems to go to Epcot every day, but I skip most of the commentary anymore. Save the Fountainview? Well, at least I got a chuckle. How about "Save our Soldiers"?

I am plenty outspoken on a variety of other subjects, but this is a Disney park forum.

That said, this next bit isn't directed to you, but mostly everyone who likes to complain about me in general: If you want other topics about other things at Disney, start them yourself. Do your research, come up with something compelling, post it, talk about it. It'd be grand.

 

[Hakunamatata]

Huge difference. Those are caritable non-profit business ventures. LaL was started for pure profit. $100 a tile when it first debuted and was never meant as a charity nor donated its earnings to a charity.

You totally missed the point....oh well, even if I explained it to you, you would find some other random tidbit to chase after.

 

[Hakunamatata]

I am plenty outspoken on a variety of other subjects, but this is a Disney park forum.

That said, this next bit isn't directed to you, but mostly everyone who likes to complain about me in general: If you want other topics about other things at Disney, start them yourself. Do your research, come up with something compelling, post it, talk about it. It'd be grand.

Give me another 20 years to retire from my first career, and move to Florida, then I will be more than happy to accomidate your request.

 

[CThaddeus]

I have never seen one person climb on LaL
I have never seen any bird dropings on LaL. I'm sure it gets cleaned on a regular bases.
I just negated every point you attempted to make.
See how easy it is to dismiss someone's opinion on a subject.

He wasn't posting an opinion. He was posting a fact. He saw kids playing on them. Others have seen people complaining about them. I have seen both as well. While it is "against the rules," some kids see it as a play area (there's an idea - Eisner's Playful Spot, where kids can climb all over the pictures that have been mounted to slides and such). I brought some friends to Epcot for the first time last May and one of the first comments after entering the Park was, "Who died?" I then had to explain the whole thing to them, to which one said, "It's like they buried Walt here or something." Now, while I have not seen the bird droppings, I also don't get close enough to them to notice those kinds of details. I weave though them as quickly as possible. But I don't find it at all hard to believe that birds can and do ________ on them.
As for those who are complaining because some people are complaining, can you honestly tell me that every little thing Disney does is perfect? Every attraction is great? I'm sorry, I love Disney, but I won't hestitate to say if I think something is not up to "Disney standards," as I have interpreted them from the past. Things like the Wand, the Hat, and the Tombstones (all from approximately the same time period. Coincidence? I don't think so) don't strike me as particularly good show and if someone like Mousemerf (or myself)wants to create a thread slamming something he doesn't like or thinks is a failure, then it is his right to do so. It is also your right to post and opposite opinion if you want, but to complain because he's trying to lift Disney up to what he (or I) believe is a higher standard again is, in my opinion, wrong. If you don't like the thread and you think it is too negative, there's nothing keeping you in it. The red "x" at the top right corner of your screen will close it immediately and you can get back to threads that give you a warm, fuzzy feeling inside.

 

[djramone]

Do your research, come up with something compelling, post it, talk about it. It'd be grand.

See that's the problem, you found 2 statements on the internet and have drawn a conclusion that is not based on fact. If you had found a financial statement demonstrating that Disney made only a fraction of what they planned, or a statement from an executive saying that it was a mistake to install the displays, then you have a valid argument. Instead, you presented a biased (you don't like the Leave a Legacy) opinion that you are defending as fact.

Was Leave a Legacy a failure? Maybe. Maybe not. We don't have enough information to determine that.

dj

 

[ToTBellHop]

All we can say is that Leave a Legacy did not perform UP TO EXPECTATIONS. There is no denying that. They expected guests to eat the program up and have pretty much everything sold out by the end of the Millennium Celebration, which clearly did not happen. The fact that they sold about 80% of the tiles tells me it was successful, just clearly not as successful as the Millennium Celebration planners expected. If you want a failure, head southwest from LaL to Journey into Imagination, where they have taken a popular E-Ticket and performed an expensive two-part (what ended up as two parts) transformation to a ride that is always walk-on. That is a bona fide failure.

 

[Passport]

In my opinion Who Cares?!

Creative accounting can turn any money loser into a success. So there is no way to know what it was supposed to do, how close it got to expectations or if it lost money. And it doesn't really matter.

Disney is moving on. Let's do the same.

 

[Expo_Seeker40]

This is the thread that will never end

Steve could try and shut it down

but it will revive itself instead

you could try hard as you want to never post here agaiiiiiiiinnnnn

but guess what, this is the thread will never end

laaa dadaddaaaaa laaaaaa dadada

 

[jt04]

In my opinion Who Cares?!

Creative accounting can turn any money loser into a success. So there is no way to know what it was supposed to do, how close it got to expectations or if it lost money. And it doesn't really matter.

Disney is moving on. Let's do the same.

I will believe Disney is "moving on" when this issue is resolved. Clearly the present situation is problematic. Thanks.

 

[lilmizpixie3]

I really don't think it failed. ALOT of people left their legacy. It just isn't appealing in the front of the park. They should have just let you leave your face on a brick or something :ROFLOL:

 

[WDWFigment]

First, I would like to end all this silly debate about the LaL stones. There are forcefields around them that prevent birds from flying over them (or is it restricted airspace, I'm never quite sure), so there is no way bird poo ever gets on them. Give me a break; there has been bird poo on them at some point, simple probability dictates as much (just like there has been bird poo on anything that has been outside without cover for more than a year and has more than a couple feet of surface area).

Second, how hypocritical are you all who are complaining about Merf 'personally attacking' you as you give him a personal attack right back? If you don't want him to do something (which I don't think he's doing in the first place, but you can interpret things how you please--and no, citing a dictionary definition of complete doesn't prove anything; unless merf was using a dictionary and the literal definition of a word...there is a such thing as exaggeration) don't do it yourself.

In my year or so of looking at these boards, I have always found him to be an asset to these boards. He posts pictures on a regular basis, spends hours researching all things Disney (come on, who else regularly goes to the comptroller site?) and gives us extensive posts on what he finds. He quite obviously loves Disney and shares this love with us.

Yes, he is critical of a lot of things Disney related. Maybe to the point of beating a dead horse sometimes. So what? He is critical not because he is some troll who wants everyone to hate Disney, but because he wants the parks to be the best they can be. Is this really so bad? If all we ever did was praise Disney, they would not have as much reason to improve. If no one examined things with a discerning eye, Disney would just eat up profits and move on. Minor upkeep, but not much more. If not for people like Merf, we'd still have the Wand and Figment would've never come back (and Dreamfinder definitely would never--future tense--come back as expected). Who knows how many other internal decisions have been made thanks to people objecting to facets of the parks that they believe Disney has done wrong. If you don't agree, debate the opposite! It certainly lends for intriguing discussion.

Thanks for the post, Merf, and for all in the past. I may not always agree with you, but at least you present a valid argument instead of an emocotive one, and provide for engaging discussion.

 

[Hakunamatata]

... unless merf was using a dictionary and the literal definition of a word...there is a such thing as exaggeration) ....

Ok, my bad. I guess that I was supposed to magically know that Merf did not mean the words "complete and utter" that he typed. Guess its one of those younger generation things!!!1!!11!!!!1 :shrug:

 

[mousermerf]

You know, for someone with the name "hakuna matata" you take things very seriously.

 

[Hakunamatata]

You know, for someone with the name "hakuna matata" you take things very seriously.

These types of conversations bring out the beast in me.:ROFLOL:

 

[WDWFigment]

Ok, my bad. I guess that I was supposed to magically know that Merf did not mean the words "complete and utter" that he typed. Guess its one of those younger generation things!!!1!!11!!!!1 :shrug:

That's funny, it would've required magic for you to discern whether he was exaggerating or not, but you knew quite easily which of the fifteen definitions of 'complete' he meant when he used the word. Please explain why some of these other fourteen don't also fit, because some of these definitions certainly don't suggest his statement was as "harsh" as you state it was. Sorry if it requires magic for you to explain that one, but try your best!

2.finished; ended; concluded: a complete orbit.
3.having all the required or customary characteristics, skills, or the like; consummate; perfect in kind or quality: a complete scholar.
4.thorough; entire; total; undivided, uncompromised, or unmodified: a complete victory; a complete mess.
5.Grammar. having all modifying or complementary elements included: The complete subject of “The dappled pony gazed over the fence” is “The dappled pony.” Compare simple (def. 20).
6.Also, completed. Football. (of a forward pass) caught by a receiver.
7.Logic. (of a set of axioms) such that every true proposition able to be formulated in terms of the basic ideas of a given system is deducible from the set. Compare incomplete (def. 4b).
8.Engineering. noting a determinate truss having the least number of members required to connect the panel points so as to form a system of triangles. Compare incomplete (def. 3), redundant (def. 5c).
9.(of persons) accomplished; skilled; expert.
10.Mathematics. a.of or pertaining to an algebraic system, as a field with an order relation defined on it, in which every set of elements of the system has a least upper bound. b.of or pertaining to a set in which every fundamental sequence converges to an element of the set. Compare fundamental sequence. c.(of a lattice) having the property that every subset has a least upper bound and a greatest lower bound. –verb (used with object)
11.to make whole or entire: I need three more words to complete the puzzle.
12.to make perfect: His parting look of impotent rage completed my revenge.
13.to bring to an end; finish: Has he completed his new novel yet?
14.to consummate.
15.Football. to execute (a forward pass) successfully: He completed 17 passes in 33 attempts.