Disneyland's Tom Sawyer Island to close (will WDW's follow suit?)

KentB3

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Goodbye Sawyer, Hello Sparrow

(from MiceAge.com)

But what has Rasulo fired up in the short term for Disneyland is the same thing that has nearly everyone in Burbank bursting with excitement, and that's the Billion dollar business the Pirates of the Caribbean movie franchise has just pulled in this summer.

In a theme park proposal that was crafted in the corporate offices of Burbank rather than the WDI design studios of Glendale, the Pirates franchise is planned to expand its presence at Disneyland for next summer's release of the third Pirates movie. While another tweak to the lavish 15 minute long E Ticket attraction was always part of the equation, much to the very noisy annoyance of some people at WDI, the corporate bosses are now eyeing an additional piece of property just across the Rivers of America from the ride itself in New Orleans Square.

The Burbank bigwigs have Tom Sawyer Island in their sights, and if the budget gets approved later this fall that 50 year old piece of Disneyland history will go the way of the Skyway and the House of the Future. What Burbank has proposed is an ambitious plan to restructure and retheme the island into a pirate playground, where Captain Barbossa and Davy Jones would displace the less than blockbuster Huck Finn and Becky Thatcher.

The current proposal calls for over 28 million to be spent this winter rebuilding and rebranding the Tom Sawyer themed attraction. Gone would be the treehouses, trails and caves referenced in the literary works of Mark Twain and originally designed for the simpler audiences of the 1950's. In their place would be snazzier pirate themed activities designed for the kids of the 21st century who have grown up with extreme sports and Super Mario Brothers instead of barrel hoops and Tom Sawyer. The current lush wooded landscaping would also presumably be substantially altered, as tropical islands don't quite match the southern American landscape.

Do Pirates even consider a raft or a canoe suitable for transportation?

This proposal has been moving very quickly (and up to now, quietly) through the approval process and at its core it's driven by the insane profits and audience interest the second Pirates movie generated this summer. Once Burbank made it clear they wanted this remade attraction for Disneyland to coincide with the third movie release next May, the operations folks jumped on the bandwagon and happily added in requests to upgrade the infrastructure and physical facilities on the Island.

It's no secret that the Island has needed a makeover and more modern facilities installed for quite some time, and this project is just the ticket to get those things paid for. New bathrooms and regraded trails to accommodate wheelchairs and electric carts were added to the plan, as well as a snack bar and a small shop to milk a few bucks out of the expected hordes of parents and their children. In almost a complete reversal of the normal way a new attraction is proposed, the marketers and merchandisers drafted the concept and the plans and the Imagineers are now left to struggle to come up with the actual designs and themes.

The dilapidated Fort Wilderness is targeted for Pirate renewal.

The proposal is so sweeping and moving so quickly that it may not all make it by next May. Part of the plan calls for the old Fort Wilderness facility to be razed, and the space used as an interactive pirate museum using exhibits and interactive play spaces such as those used in the Sorcerer's Workshop in DCA's Animation pavilion, or the nifty Fortress Explorations attraction at Tokyo DisneySea. That proposal for Fort Wilderness may be pushed into a Phase Two plan, which would be just fine with Burbank if they move forward on an as yet unscripted fourth installment of the Pirates movie series. And the word is that Johnny Depp is amenable to yet another sequel.

Of course, it'a a given that die-hard Disneyland fans will likely recoil in horror when they first hear about this idea. But what should be kept in mind is that this project would make a beloved old corner of Disneyland exciting and relevant again for a new generation of fans.

A few years ago Disneyland was forced to go in and remodel some of the play areas on the Island to bring them up to code and pass muster from Disney's own safety department. During that physical rehab and freshening the Disneyland Entertainment department also added live Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn characters to the Island, young men dressed up in 1800's clothing who wandered the island telling stories and jokes as written by Mark Twain. The response from some of the older parents was of bemused interest, but the 7 to 12 year old crowd whom the entertainment was aimed at couldn't figure out who the guys were dressed in the funny clothes and why they kept talking about whitewashing a fence. Does Home Depot even sell whitewash? Is Mark Twain available on a PodCast?

While the recent appearance of Tom and Huck on the Island was a noble attempt on Disneyland's part to try and bring Tom Sawyer to life for 21st century audiences, it was obvious these were characters no one under the age of thirty knew much about. Ask a ten year old today who Huck Finn is and you'll get a blank stare, but ask him about Jack Sparrow and you'll get a high five. And that's what has most folks in Imagineering (WDI) a little more excited about the project, as they would love to make sure Disneyland stays as fresh and exciting to audiences in 2006 as it was a half century ago. Rest assured there is a bit of controversy over this plan up and down the halls of WDI, but as this is being driven directly from Burbank apparently they don't have much say in the matter.

Now before you storm the MiceChat boards, just try to keep in mind that this still hasn't received the formal green light and funding from Burbank. But it's a project that is moving so quickly and with so much political muscle that it was important to bring to light now. It's also something that needs to be ready to open in just seven short months and there's plenty of work to do, so the formal decision will need to be made quickly, if it hasn't already been decided by the time you read this. We'll of course keep you informed if this gets the green light and we'll keep you in the loop as the endless details of the project get ironed out through the fall. (And yes I'm also wondering what'll happen to the Indian village out back, not to mention the itchy bear and every other river-side tableau.)

Do the Indians become Pirates, and lose their casinos?

Add to all that the inclusion of Orlando Bloom and Keira Knightly animatronics to Pirates itself, plus the massive Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage that promises to be the talk of Southern California next summer, and the rather corny Rockin' Space Mountain and Rockin' California Screamin' overlays for this winter and spring, and suddenly Disneyland's dance card for the next year is very full.

The pirates movie premiere is slated for Southern California for a third time next May, although it may take on a different format than the previous two events. Some managers in Walt Disney World had lobbied to have the next premiere staged at their property, but they were shot down by Burbank executives who didn't want to put up with the hot and rainy Florida climate or the cost of flying in a dozen or two celebrities when they could have 100 celebs happily show up for a fraction of the cost in warm and dry Anaheim.

But this time, instead of staging the premiere inside Disneyland, the event may end up on the shoreline near Long Beach. If Rasulo has his way, they will have pulled the financials together and be able to use the movie premiere to announce that the third ship in the Disney Cruise Line fleet is being built and will be home ported in Southern California. Regardless of where and when that announcement is made, it's a commitment that should be announced by next summer with a first year sailing itinerary slated for the end of this decade. You can expect summertime trips up to British Columbia and the Alaskan glaciers, and wintertime trips down the Mexican Riviera, all tied in to a few additional days at Disneyland.

A link to the full article, with pictures can be found at: http://www.miceage.com/allutz/al100306a.htm
 

Plutoboy

New Member
It wouldn't bother me at all if Tom Sawyer Island went away at either park!!! Never liked it as a kid and it's even more boring now to me as an adult. What I am curious about is how would this affest DL's Fantasmic if at all?
 

CThaddeus

New Member
That Castle has been there for way too long. Let's bulldoze it and put in a Princesss play area. Kids in the 21st century can't relate to buildings like that, after all. Maybe make it look more like a Chuck E. Cheese.
 

Plutoboy

New Member
Are you really comparing TSI to Sleeping Beauty or CInderella Castle. The castles are known world over as the icons for Disney. No one ( I don't think) says they can't wait to get to DL or WDW to go see Tom Sawyer Island.

Yes the parks have to keep evolving to keep up with society today and that is part of the challenge to Disney. Tom Sawyer Island is no longer relevant.
 

Dizknee_Phreek

Well-Known Member
That Castle has been there for way too long. Let's bulldoze it and put in a Princesss play area. Kids in the 21st century can't relate to buildings like that, after all. Maybe make it look more like a Chuck E. Cheese.

Nah...Chuck E. Cheese is totally 90's...he's probably been around long enough to be retired. He'll probably be replaced by Spongebob Squarepants pretty soon anyway.

As for the castle, I agree. But let's not put in a play area. We need another meet-n-greet area, and that's the perfect spot!

Tom Sawyer's Island? Bah...well, who needs ties to classic literature anyway, right? :rolleyes:

Seriously, though...does that not sound stupid? They're wanting to make a new attraction...based on an already existing attraction. They've already added elements of the movie into the original attraction...is that not enough? I've always loved Tom Sawyer's Island and it gave me a deeper appreciation for the book when I had to read it for school. Disney needs more of stuff like this; stuff that makes kids want to read, to learn more about history and the world around them. Does TSI make kids want to learn? Some kids. Does PotC? Maybe some kids as well. But if you make an attraction based on the movie, everyone knows people don't like the movie for its historical and educational content, but for it's action, adventure...(and Johnny Depp/Orlando Bloom....Keira Knightley for the guys). Besides that, I've always had a blast on TSI; I thought it was great! Not to mention, they'll have a hard time with themeing...at WDW at least, since the rafts leave from Frontierland. I don't know where they leave from in DL.
 

cindy_k

Well-Known Member
I can only speak of WDW's TSI. But I loved it as a kid and my son who is 13 now, loves it too and still likes to get me on the barrel bridge and jump up and down. He also like hanging out in the fort and playing checkers with the other kids.

When he was younger the caves were, of course, the best part of the island.

I don't think you need to understand Tom Sawyer to enjoy the island. And personally its better if its not totally packed.

When we were there a few months ago, the island had a ton of kids running around on it, and I didn't see any confused faces. Only happy screams of joy as the kids went through the creepy tunnels, and hopped on the Barrel bridge and climbed around the playground.

The island was in need of repair. I wound up reporting a dangerous situation to a cast member (manager type) who was on the island. The well in the fort had a loose cover with nails sticking out the bottom. Children were pulling on the rope lifting the bucket and the board it was attached to with the nails sticking out and then dropping the whole thing back down. It was a nasty accident waiting to happen.

A Pirate overlay... hmmm... (I am going to assume that if they do it to DL then WDW will be next. ) It will entice more people to bring their young ones over there if they don't go out of there way to make it too creepy.
(IE: Stitch's Great Escape) Maybe they will light it better so it can be open at night? A food stand that is open would be nice, and I never complain about another place to shop. ;)

TTFN!
Cindy:wave:
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
I love TSI but lets face it the place is dead for a reason and re-theming it could breath new life into it. Pirates are hot right now and I think their popularity will continue for quite some time. The only issue I have at WDW is theming. Right now as TSI it fits in perfectly around Liberty Square and Frontier land. If it was pirate themed IMHO it would be kind of out of place, but if go-carts work in Tomorrow land I could be wrong.
 

LudwigVonDrake

Well-Known Member
I HATE the idea of changing Tom Sawyer's Island over to a Pirate's Island. And this is from someone who have NEVER gone over to the Island. It's bad enough they changed a classic attraction and have more changes in store. I understand this is a case of "corporate synergy" and wanting to wring EVERY last cent out of the Pirates franchise but they should leave well enough alone....PLEASE! :)
 

kachow

Member
People get all bent out of shape about stuff like this, and they don't even use the attraction. DL has very limited space, so to have so much of it tied up in something few people are interested in is just impractical. If DL and WDW weren't meant or allowed to evolve, the things would be museums now. My only concern with anything like this is that it's thought through. If they did it right, and made it look like a tropical island with a big pirate ship anchored off it, I think it would be cool. Much cooler than TSI.
 

Dr Albert Falls

New Member
A couple things to keep in mind:

Disneyland, unlike WDW, relies more on local repeat visitors, and so it must continuously find ways to "plus" its existing attractions, something that's not as necessary in Florida. That's why WDW will probably never see Tarzan's Treehouse, Haunted Mansion Holiday, It's a Small World Holiday, a nighttime "rock n roll" Space Mountain, etc. So I highly doubt WDW would consider this same Tom Sawyer-to-Pirate Island makeover.

Also, in Florida, Tom Sawyer Island is completely surrounded by Frontierland (with a small portion across the river from Liberty Square). It would be extremely difficult for Disney to pull off a "Treasure Island" theme in the wilderness setting.

In Disneyland, however, the theming around TSI is a bit different. (For those who've never been there, imagine standing in the 6:00 position on the Rivers of America near WDW's Country Bears. At Disneyland, Frontierland is to your right (in place of WDW's Haunted Mansion), the Deep South-themed Critter Country is to your left (where WDW's Big Thunder sits), and right behind you is the elaborate New Orleans Square)). With some creativity and proper landscaping, I think Imagineers could sucessfully convert Disneyland's Tom Sawyer Island to a sub-tropical, New Orleans swamp-- basically an extension of the Blue Bayou in POTC. Not exactly the "Caribbean", but I think it would work.

I'm sure its probably not financially feasible, but Disney really could use the success of "Pirates of the Caribbean" to revive the old Discovery Island in the middle of WDW's Bay Lake (which, coincidentally, was originally called "Treasure Island") A few years ago there were rumors of converting the island to a "reality game" like Myst. I don't know if that was a true discussion at WDI. But with a couple million dollars, Disney could create some sort of "Jack Sparrow Treasure Hunt" on the island. I'm sure visitors would be willing to spend $30-$40 on such an experience. With the animals now gone, I'm sure it would not cost a ton for Disney to staff the island and run the boats out there again. But with the overgrowth of the island and the amount of vulture droppings now contaminating the washed-out beaches, a Discovery Island conversion is probably out of the question.
 

cloudboy

Well-Known Member
I am not unilaterally opposed to the idea of making a Pirate-themed island play area much in the vein of Tom Sawyers Island. In fact, I think that is a very good idea - in the right place.

I do have a couple of issues with this particular proposal, some of which actually make me believe this not to be too trusted. And the most important is theming. Even in Disneyland, making the island in the middle of America a pirate theme would completely and totally destroy the theming. Even more so in Flrida, and I can't believe that they would do something like that. Now, I have not been to Disneyland, and I don't know the exact layout, but didn't they at on time have a skull rock and pirate ship? I mean, there could certainly be a connection there.

The other major problem that I have is that they are putting way to much in a franchise that does not yet show it is going to stand the test of time. Movies are notoriously short-lived, and while it is extreemly popular right now, what happens in ten years when the movies are not in the theaters any more? Suddenly you are going to have a big dead spot.

I don't think that Tom Sawyer or Huck Finn really play an important role on Tom Sawyer's island besides names, and that is another reason why I question the accuracy. It's not about characters, it's about a themed environment. But if you are a character driven person, then of course it will make no sense.

Do I think that Tom Sawyers could use a refresh? Absolutely. I think you could do a lot more with the idea. Do I see room for an additional Pirates play island? Yes to that, too. That might be a better use, in fact, of the treehouse instead of Tarzan. But I can't see this being a particularly great attraction that will draw a lot more people, at least not enough to justify the expense of building it and what potential damage it can do to the theming of the surrounding lands.
 

MeTa

Member
This is probably the only attraction that doesnt bother me, I am a big fan of keeping originals around but I have only traveled to the island once, never pulling myself to the boring dirt lump again. But I do respect the people that enjoy it, I know alot of folk who do. Even at my age I would rather have the pirate island to bring a little more excitement to the park.
 

KFWampa

New Member
Ok, I have lived in Florida from age 3 so I've only ever been to WDW. I like TSI. I recently went there with my 7 year old nephew and he loved it. I do think it could do with a massive refurb and cleaning up. For example: if you are going to keep Aunt Polly's closed most of the year find something else to do with the building/space. IMO. I don't think you need to really rebrand it but putting something on there that is a bit more of a draw might be cool. Don't ask me what, I'm not awake yet..... Maybe a draw bridge for people to cross to and from the island in case you don't like boats. Yes, a draw bridge so as not to interfere with the paddle boat (name escapes me right now).

Wile the idea for DL sounds cool I do think Disney is killing us with POTC. We are drowning in PTOC merchandise and cross brand themeing.:hurl: I think it's reached overkill levels. I am so sick of seeing anything with Jack Sparrow on it.
 

napnet

Active Member
While you hate losing it, I could see some benifits to the re-theming like making it more accessable to wheelchairs and things of that sort. I haven't been to the one at WDW in forever but may go if this really does happen since i bet WDWs would be done soon after.
 

Meeko

New Member
Themes and fitting into the surrounding settings are important, but how different would the outer edges of TSI have to look for the inner parts of the island to convert to a pirate theme? It's not like they would cut down all the foliage, and would kids really care if the trees weren't exactly the right species that should be growing in a Pirate's "habitat"? Plus with the amount of time it takes for plants to fill in an area (look at AK - it took a few years to grow in) the Imagineers would be making a mistake if they cut down/removed the trees, etc. My thought would be to make no large changes to the outer edges of the island to maintain the Frontierland fit it has in WDW and then change all the play areas to pirate stuff. JMHO.:wave:
 
Tom Sawyer Island is one of the few places in the park where you can go and relax on a hot crowded day. I do believe they need to update the facilities a little and maybe create a larger cave system. The best way to gain the childrens interest is by adding more interaction. the walking characters was a nice touch and it did help a little. but maybe what they need to do is a treasure dig in the cave, much like the dino dig at AK where they could hide gold coins a dirt floored cave and the kids get plastic shovels to find as a suvenier.
They could also open up Aunt Polly's as a sit down restaurant on the river where guests could go and eat on the river front. they should add better transportation. the rafts are nice but they sometimes get backed up on crowded days and they need a way guests can walk to and from the island. even if it means tunneling under the RoA. I know the ground water level is too high for that. But maybe they could make it waterproof. I have trust that disney can do that being that they can make tunnels fully submerged unerwater everywhere else in the world. The tunnel could start in frontierland maybe next to BTMRR and extend to TSI themed as a cave of course. this would make more people visit TSI and allow better emergensy acess in and out of the island.
We don't need to re-do a land to a new theme, we need to update the old one to make the old stories more apealing to the younger generation. Does disney honestly want to be responcible for the new generation ever knowing about Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn. to me that is the only contact I come into with Mark Twain anymore. It's like a past time. Pluss, to all those that say it wastes time, Maybe you arn't doing the park right. Becasue my family and I can do the entire MK (nminus a few MTTF and Fantsyland atractions) with spending a half hour at least on TSI in one day. and yes we go at Christmas and Easter when the park is it's most crowded. so maybe you need a more efficient way of going about the park. And it isn't b/c we speed walk. my mom has MS and chooses to walk the entire time so we can't walk too fast.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
At this time (10/4/06), there are no plans to alter WDW's Tom Sawyer Island. Unlike its equivilent at DL, the MK's TSI has been maintained and is very popular with Guests. It is also superior to DL's smaller one, both in size and in theming; and unlike DL's, which is viewable from New Orleans Square, the MK's TSI sits directly between Frontierland and Liberty Square, and is not viewable from PotC.

Unlike WDW, which enjoys heavy American and international traffic, DL depends on locals and usually incorporates modern films much faster than the MK does. Just think about it...Disneyland created Tarzan's Treehouse, a "Home on the Range" petting zoo, Club Buzz (a Tomorrowland show that rivaled Cinderellabration for stupidity), and an extremely budget-conscious Pooh ride that replaced the Country Bear Jamboree (yes, I know that Pooh isn't modern). The MK only updated AE with Stitch, and that was mostly due to Guests that couldn't comprehend warning signs on AE.

Disneyland tends to flip old attractions in favor of new films frequently to keep its Guest base happy, and this isn't always a good thing (e.g. Tarzan's Treehouse, Home on the Range petting zoo). The MK, on the other hand, likes to wait until it knows whether or not the film property will truly stand on its own after the hype has gone. Pirates have always been popular among the public, and pirates are already represented here, in PotC. Ten years from now, pirates and PotC will still be popular, with or without the films.
 

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