DisneylandForward

[coffeefan]

Which again brings up the point, what other local competition in the SoCal region even warrants the creation of a whole 3rd gate? There is no other competition in the region, let alone all of California, that is expanding into additional gates.

So while I get it from a fan perspective why some fans may want a 3rd gate, from a business standpoint I don't see a real great business justification for that over just expanding the existing two Parks footprints.

Disney World had four theme parks and water parks before Universal opened a second park. Also the Knotts to DCA example is shaky, given it was a downgrade from Westcot.

 

[coffeefan]

We know that there is no expansion beyond a few new rides happening by other Parks in the region (and all of the West Coast really). That cannot be discounted, and I doubt Disney is not using that in part of their decision making on the future of the Resort. So from business perspective given the region it may make more sense to expand the existing footprints to "keep up with the Jones'", as it were.

From a business perspective (and your own math) it makes sense for them to build another premium hotel. But, fans here are asking for a value hotel option. Are you going to tell them that's not realistic too?

On paper a 3rd gate may look like a slam dunk to fans. But in reality we know that when a new gate is developed and built it draws all development and construction focus away from the other Parks. So that means there is no new additions in DL or DCA during that development cycle, which would be a decade or more. That means nothing new, no new entertainment, no new attractions, no new offerings, nothing, or very little, in fact it would probably be cuts across both in order to keep costs down. So that is a long drought of no development that may make the early days of DCA look like a picnic.

This claim keeps being reworded and repeated, but based on historical data, it is unsupported for Disney, on either coast.

 

[Disney Irish]

Disney World had four theme parks and water parks before Universal opened a second park. Also the Knotts to DCA example is shaky, given it was a downgrade from Westcot.

Again different region, different market. You cannot use Orlando as a comparable, so that what is really shaky. Outside of Orlando there is no other Disney Resort that has more than two Parks.

Again what competition in there in SoCal that cannot be covered by expansion of the existing 2 Parks that would warrant the building out of a 3rd gate? Besides saying "well I want one" or "fans want one". What is the business justification for the region? We know Disney is going to look at this so its a fair question to ask.

 

[Disney Irish]

From a business perspective (and your own math) it makes sense for them to build another premium hotel. But, fans here are asking for a value hotel option. Are you going to tell them that's not realistic too?

Fans want all sorts of things, many which aren't realistic for any number of reasons.

This claim keeps being reworded and repeated, but based on historical data, it is unsupported for Disney, on either coast.

What is the support then for Disney building a 3rd gate in the region? Outside of you using Orlando as your singular pillar of an argument, what is the support for it? I haven't heard one other than "fans want it".

 

[Disney Irish]

It’s clearly not a sweet spot for you since you want another mall. Lol. Sweet spot for me? Just me? lol. Not the majority of parks fans?

Who cares. There will be a new park with new attractions.

Again I never claimed I wanted a mall. In fact I never made any claim of what I actually wanted other than not wanting a 3rd gate. And I gave my reasons why I don't want that.

Majority of fans want a 3rd gate? I don't even think there is a majority here that want a 3rd gate. To me, of the people involved in this discussion it seems to be split down the middle, 50/50. Plus you always do this where you say "majority" and really its a few in some comments. I don't think anyone here legitimately knows what the majority of anyone wants.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Depending on what you call a 'ride', DL has ~37 rides and DCA has ~20.

If a third gate is suppose to be 'competitive' with the other two parks, it'll need to open with at least 20 rides. Otherwise, no one will want to go to the new "half-day" park with only 9 rides.

So... ya think a 3rd gate will open with 20 new rides?

 

[Disney Irish]

Depending on what your call a 'ride', DL has ~37 rides and DCA has ~20.

If a third gate is suppose to be 'competitive' with the other two parks, it'll need to open with at least 20 rides. Otherwise, no one will want to go to the new "half-day" park with only 9 rides.

So... ya think a 3rd gate will open with 20 new rides?

Plus at least 4 more on the way for DCA.

 

[mickEblu]

Depending on what your call a 'ride', DL has ~37 rides and DCA has ~20.

If a third gate is suppose to be 'competitive' with the other two parks, it'll need to open with at least 20 rides. Otherwise, no one will want to go to the new "half-day" park with only 9 rides.

So... ya think a 3rd gate will open with 20 new rides?

No one will want to go to the NEW park? You could have at least said after the buzz dies down. And I disagree, for locals, after the newness wears off it would ultimately become part of the rotation of parks they visit. You want BatB, Moana or the new coaster you gotta go to the third gate. You wanna walk around the world and try different kinds of food you have to go to the third gate. Then when you get bored you take the skyway back to DLR proper. For tourists they’ll obviously add at least one day to see the new park. Is any of this really in question? Why would it need 20 rides? Does nobody go visit AK or DHS or Epic Universe? I’m confused.

 

[coffeefan]

Again different region, different market. You cannot use Orlando as a comparable, so that what is really shaky. Outside of Orlando there is no other Disney Resort that has more than two Parks.

Again what competition in there in SoCal that cannot be covered by expansion of the existing 2 Parks that would warrant the building out of a 3rd gate? Besides saying "well I want one" or "fans want one". What is the business justification for the region? We know Disney is going to look at this so its a fair question to ask.

So you make and piggybacked off points using WDW examples, but I can't rebuttal using WDW examples, because "different market"?

If the baramoter is local competition, I still need my Disney Sea World and Disney Six Flags, got it?

 

[DrStarlander]

Depending on what your call a 'ride', DL has ~37 rides and DCA has ~20.

If a third gate is suppose to be 'competitive' with the other two parks, it'll need to open with at least 20 rides. Otherwise, no one will want to go to the new "half-day" park with only 9 rides.

So... ya think a 3rd gate will open with 20 new rides?

Plus at least 4 more on the way for DCA.

The admission price could be lower than Disneyland and DCA like at WDW, if needed. But I doubt it would be needed because the attractions at Westcot could be world class whereas the attractions you're counting at DCA include a lot of filler, flat rides, and junk. These are what really count:

1. Mission Breakout
2. Web Slingers (charity here)
3. RSR
4. Incredicoatser
5. Grizzly River Run
6. Soarin'
7. Pixar Pal Around
8. Little Mermaid
9. Toy Story Midway Mania

So Westcot would open with 8-9 world class attractions, and some other filler stuff probably too. And then it would add over time like DCA is 25 years later.

The placemaking would be a huge draw though, way beyond DCA.

 

[Professortango1]

I'd prefer for them to make DCA almost as good as Disneyland, then I might want to visit for multiple days. If they simply add another DCA-level park; then that just means 2 So Cal Disney parks I'd never pay full admission to visit.

Its the same issue I have with Florida wanting a 5th gate. Why? Just finish building out the parks that exist. I'd love to not be able to complete all of AK in 5 hours. To have a DHS that offers more unique attractions beyond Slinky Dog Dash and some stage shows from the 90's. A World Showcase that offers more unique experiences to explore the folklore and culture of these countries.

Fix what exists rather than trying to just keep building cheap knock offs that feel thin and empty.

 

[coffeefan]

Fans want all sorts of things, many which aren't realistic for any number of reasons.

Just wondering why you didn't chime in since you like wearing the Disney police hat.

What is the support then for Disney building a 3rd gate in the region? Outside of you using Orlando as your singular pillar of an argument, what is the support for it? I haven't heard one other than "fans want it".

I've always said it's based on demand.

 

[MisterPenguin]

No one will want to go to the NEW park? You could have at least said after the buzz dies down. And I disagree, for locals, after the newness wears off it would ultimately become part of the rotation of parks they visit. You want BatB, Moana or the new coaster you gotta go to the third gate. You wanna walk around the world and try different kinds of food you have to go to the third gate. For tourists they’ll obviously add at least one day to see the new park. Is any of this really in question? Why would it need 20 rides. Does nobody go visit AK or DHS or Epic Universe? I’m confused.

The "other 3" parks, even though they each have ~9 rides are also "something else."

EPCOT is a World's Fair, DAK is a zoo, and DHS is supposed to have lots of shows.

Additionally, EPCOT has Luminous and DHS has Fantasmic! So, the big nighttime show is a big draw.

Additionally, they're slowly growing with new attractions. My preference is they should be growing faster than MK because they need the new attractions... MK doesn't.

Will the third gate have, in addition to the initial 7-9 rides, several shows and a big nighttime extravaganza?

It could. I'd doubt it.

A "beginner's" park is feasible as long as you don't sell it as a full theme park until it actually is a full theme park. Think of all the people angry at Disney for charging a full theme park price when DHS was down to just 3 rides.

 

[mickEblu]

The admission price could be lower than Disneyland and DCA like at WDW, if needed. But I doubt it would be needed because the attractions at Westcot could be world class whereas the attractions you're counting at DCA include a lot of filler, flat rides, and junk. These are what really count:

1. Mission Breakout
2. Web Slingers (charity here)
3. RSR
4. Incredicoatser
5. Grizzly River Run
6. Soarin'
7. Pixar Pal Around
8. Little Mermaid
9. Toy Story Midway Mania

So Westcot would open with 8-9 world class attractions, and some other filler stuff probably too. And then it would add over time like DCA is 25 years later.

The placemaking would be a huge draw though, way beyond DCA.

Exactly. I was going to mention that DCA is full of flat rides. Although to get the third gates ride count up to 12 you’d probably need about 3-4 flat rides as well. Still 8-9 solid attractions is fine when bolstered by the place making. Suddenly everyone is forgetting how many people go to Epcot just to “eat n drink around the world.”

 

[Disney Irish]

So you make and piggybacked off points using WDW examples, but I can't rebuttal using WDW examples, because "different market"?

If the baramoter is local competition, I still need my Disney Sea World and Disney Six Flags, got it?

I'm not the one who brought up WDW examples, YOU did. I just refuted those examples as they don't apply.

One would say that DLR already competes with both those competitors directly with just the two parks they already have.

 

[Disney Irish]

I've always said it's based on demand.

DCA doesn't get enough demand now, as many feel its still a half day Park. So where is this demand that warrants a 3rd gate? A future demand that may never materialize?

 

[denyuntilcaught]

I just don’t understand why the lag of not building a new hotel since 2001?

Are we forgetting that they announced a fourth hotel in 2016? Sure it got cancelled for political reasons, but it's a clear signal that it's not due to a lack of trying.

 

[DLR92]

Are we forgetting that they announced a fourth hotel in 2016? Sure it got cancelled for political reasons, but it's a clear signal that it's not due to a lack of trying.

Seem more like they wanted the incentives.

 

[denyuntilcaught]

Seem more like they wanted the incentives.

Absolutely what I meant by political.

 

[Disney Irish]

Seem more like they wanted the incentives.

Lot easier ways to get tax incentives than to spend $1B+ on a new hotel.