Upcoming Announcement?

[BrianLo]

For DCA Pandora? I mean, new CEO and a new one-year delay in closing Mike & Sully seem to indicate ... something's happening. A couple of other points:

• The Avatar franchise's global box office numbers: $2.9B | $2.3B | $1.5B
• Zootopia's global box office numbers: $1.0B | $1.9B
• Disney doesn't own the Avatar sequels, so presumably an in park-future with those would entail licensing costs

I suspect several ideas are being considered. Jim Shull makes a good case for Zootopia here.

We already have a clear explanation for the Monsters delay related to the EGW project. Disney just reaffirmed they are building Avatar days ago. Disney owns Avatar… I think your wires are a little crossed there?

I’m curious if this is your speculation or based on something, like Villains was? Not trying to challenge you, but the logic behind what you just said is rather odd; so I wanted to see if there was something substantively linked as @wdwmagic certainly doesn’t appear to be talking off the cuff.

 

[ProjectXBlog]

We already have a clear explanation for the Monsters delay related to the EGW project. Disney just reaffirmed they are building Avatar days ago. Disney owns Avatar… I think your wires are a little crossed there?

I’m curious if this is your speculation or based on something, like Villains was? Not trying to challenge you, but the logic behind what you just said is rather odd; so I wanted to see if there was something substantively linked as @wdwmagic certainly doesn’t appear to be talking off the cuff.

I’m just chiming in here to clarify that Disney does not completely own the Avatar franchise. Avatar as an IP is owned by James Cameron & Lightstorm, and Disney mainly has the distribution rights that they inherited after the Fox buyout. Disney also has a licensing deal with Cameron for the theme parks, but the agreement they’ve had in place since 2011 seems to be more complex than most licensing deals.

 

[BrianLo]

This is such an odd rumour by contrast to villains. How we can go from Disney reaffirming the project to the media to the internet deciding it is cancelled?

I tried to figure out what the heck the primary source was and it seems to have been Brickey openly speculating and then saying he is only speculating.

There is some sensibility towards it, Zootopia would have made somewhat more logistical sense in that backlot corner. Pandora would work in Disneyland forward with space to breath. But I’d be pretty surprised if they bailed on Avatar entirely when they just reaffirmed it is coming, to there and isn’t delayed.

 

[lentesta]

We already have a clear explanation for the Monsters delay related to the EGW project. Disney just reaffirmed they are building Avatar days ago. Disney owns Avatar… I think your wires are a little crossed there?

I’m curious if this is your speculation or based on something, like Villains was? Not trying to challenge you, but the logic behind what you just said is rather odd; so I wanted to see if there was something substantively linked as @wdwmagic certainly doesn’t appear to be talking off the cuff.

I could be wrong, as usual. I can ask around.

 

[BrianLo]

I could be wrong, as usual. I can ask around.

Thanks! Just helpful to know if you are sticking your neck out as a primary source or passing on the internet speculation.

 

[mickEblu]

This is such an odd rumour by contrast to villains. How we can go from Disney reaffirming the project to the media to the internet deciding it is cancelled?

I tried to figure out what the heck the primary source was and it seems to have been Brickey openly speculating and then saying he is only speculating.

There is some sensibility towards it, Zootopia would have made somewhat more logistical sense in that backlot corner. Pandora would work in Disneyland forward with space to breath. But I’d be pretty surprised if they bailed on Avatar entirely when they just reaffirmed it is coming, to there and isn’t delayed.

Wasn’t my source. The vloggers take hours/ days to respond to news with a video usually. A lot of takes that end up on the YT videos originate from here on this site. I’ve been saying Monstropolis would have made a ton of sense in the backlot forever. Zootopia as well but it wouldn’t be my preference. As soon as the news came out about the Monsters Inc closing being delayed my mind started to wonder. Between that + the tons of negative feedback the proposed attraction is getting on social media you can’t help but wonder. As I’ve said, when you consider how much the land/ attraction would cost I could see Disney getting cold feet. Of course they didn’t have to come out and say it’s still on track. So perhaps they re still trying to figure it out or maybe they just scaled it back? The OC register timeline of a 2028 opening would certainly make more sense. Hope not. That would be a worst case scenario. Anyway just speculating. It’s what we do when we’re bored between news/ rumors drops.

 

[BrianLo]

Wasn’t my source. The vloggers take hours/ days to respond to news with a video usually. A lot of takes that end up on the YT videos originate from here on this site. I’ve been saying Monstropolis would have made a ton of sense in the backlot forever. Zootopia as well but it wouldn’t be my preference. As soon as the news came out about the Monsters Inc closing being delayed my mind started to wonder. Between that + the tons of negative feedback the proposed attraction is getting on social media you can’t help but wonder. As I’ve said, when you consider how much the land/ attraction would cost I could see Disney getting cold feet. Of course they didn’t have to come out and say it’s still on track. So perhaps they re still trying to figure it out or maybe they just scaled it back? The OC register timeline of a 2028 opening would certainly make more sense. Hope not. That would be a worst case scenario. Anyway just speculating. It’s what we do when we’re bored between news/ rumors drops.

lol to be fair I also saw that and thought, surely the source is not Mickeblu!

The speculation in lieu of the reaffirmation from the media makes sense. But I need a context clue beyond the internet parroting “us”.

Whatever @wdwmagic is saying though appears to have actual teeth.

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

This is such an odd rumour by contrast to villains. How we can go from Disney reaffirming the project to the media to the internet deciding it is cancelled?

I tried to figure out what the heck the primary source was and it seems to have been Brickey openly speculating and then saying he is only speculating.

There is some sensibility towards it, Zootopia would have made somewhat more logistical sense in that backlot corner. Pandora would work in Disneyland forward with space to breath. But I’d be pretty surprised if they bailed on Avatar entirely when they just reaffirmed it is coming, to there and isn’t delayed.

Over on the Paris expansion thread, Martin also mentioned that the third land at DAW could be re-evaluated. That would surprise me, since France is arguably Avatar’s most successful market relative to population size.

 

[mickEblu]

lol to be fair I also saw that and thought, surely the source is not Mickeblu!

The speculation in lieu of the reaffirmation from the media makes sense. But I need a context clue beyond the internet parroting “us”.

Whatever @wdwmagic is saying though appears to have actual teeth.

LOL

What is @wdwmagic saying? Did I miss it?

 

[BrianLo]

Over on the Paris expansion thread, Martin also mentioned that the third land at DAW could be re-evaluated. That would surprise me, since France is arguably Avatar’s most successful market relative to population size.

Indeed. It’s huge there.

And contrary to the arguments, domestically Fire and Ash did about the same as Zoo 2. There’s just also no getting around Pandora being the most successful addition metrically they’ve made since maybe Radiator Springs. I do think this is an Iger project by and large though.

Josh has been positioning himself as a guarantor, so it would be a big walk back for him to outright cancel it given the reassurance and platitudes made at D23 and Tom made just recently. But for sure, moving it to make it bigger would have teeth if Tom hadn’t made all those comments to the media.


Maybe @marni1971 wants to wink at us.

 

[BrianLo]

LOL

What is @wdwmagic saying? Did I miss it?

Post one

 

[mickEblu]

Post one

Oh that’s right. We talked about this. Do you still think it has to do with Coco?

 

[BrianLo]

Oh that’s right. We talked about this. Do you still think it has to do with Coco?

On balance of things now I think I was over parsing something Steve probably wasn’t thinking about to the level I was. It seems to be about “this” phase: EGW, Pandora and the like.

But it would still strike me as plussing the project based on Josh’s actions. Not just converting to SDL’s Zootopia or a derivative of and outright cancelling this project. Or doing both. I like Zootopia, but cancelling the boat ride outright would be a clear downgrade.

If the boat ride never sees the light of day I’ll be upset, I’ll own that bias upfront.

 

[mickEblu]

On balance of things now I think I was over parsing something Steve probably wasn’t thinking about to the level I was. It seems to be about “this” phase: EGW, Pandora and the like.

But it would still strike me as plussing the project based on Josh’s actions. Not just converting to SDL’s Zootopia or a derivative of and outright cancelling this project. Or doing both. I like Zootopia, but cancelling the boat ride outright would be a clear downgrade.

If the boat ride never sees the light of day I’ll be upset, I’ll own that bias upfront.

I understand the confusion because at the time @wdwmagic made that comment we were still taking in the Josh wants to go bigger bolder with Villains rumor. Now that the dust has settled we can see that it’s not bigger and bolder so much as a different direction. I immediately thought Pandora because it’s closest in scale to Villains. The marquee project on this coast if you will. And I don’t think he’d be comparing it to the Eastern Gateway or a parking lot as that isnt the sexy headline that’s going to get people talking. Pandora/ Villains is more apples to apples.

Yeah would definitely be a downgrade. At this point I’m thinking the best we can hope for is to see the concept art come to life in the backlot. Bigger bolder Pandora just doesn’t seem like it’s in the cards for many reasons. But my biggest concern now is getting a scaled back Pandora and boat ride. If that’s what they re going to do than they may as well pivot to Zootopia or Monsters. Give the people what they (think they) want. Likely to cost much less. Sell more merch. Either would be a better fit in that corner of the park. If they do pivot all I ask is that they please don’t bring the clone from Shanghai. DLR doesn’t need another trackless ride. It needs a coaster and that will be nice big spot to put one. One of the only places in DL or DCA proper that it’s possible.

If we re going to go 1:1 with Villains and assume that WDW Magic is just alluding to a Pandora direction change. What if it’s not just a scaled back boat ride but not a boat ride at all anymore? That would also jive with some of the FB rumors of him hearing that getting all that water to that section of the park would be an issue. What if it’s a completely different ride system but also based on the sequels? They wouldn’t clone FOP in a park with Soarin right? What if it’s turned into some trackless ride? “We’re building a boat ride for Coco anyway.” What if that’s the reason MK is getting the Shanghai POTC boat ride system now? What if the ride systems for Maleficent and Avatar got swapped?

 

[BrianLo]

I understand the confusion because at the time @wdwmagic made that comment we were still taking in the Josh wants to go bigger bolder with Villains rumor. Now that the dust has settled we can see that it’s not bigger and bolder so much as a different direction.

Funnily enough I have not written it off as not being bigger and bolder. Once the coaster-gate settled I think people have come back around to why a largely scaled system SDL’s pirate tech is a big deal.

I also think the coaster comment was about thrill, not about execution, personally.

Eternal optimism over here!

 

[mickEblu]

also think the coaster comment was about thrill, not about execution

I agree but still don’t perceive this iteration of Villains land to be bigger/ bolder. Granted we didn’t have much to go off but vague concept art and our imagination. Oh and I guess them saying “two major attractions.”

 

[coffeefan]

If Pandora were to be moved because of fan reaction, my pitch for a comparable replacement and fan favorite would be...

Spoiler

and a backdoor to get Villains too...


Josh - it fits with your vision to connect Disney and gaming more.

 

[lentesta]

Now that the dust has settled we can see that it’s not bigger and bolder so much as a different direction.

We can debate 'bolder'.

The show buildings got tens of thousands of square feet larger in last Friday's SFWMD plan updates. So 'bigger', for now, seems clear.

 

[mickEblu]

We can debate 'bolder'.

The show buildings got tens of thousands of square feet larger in last Friday's SFWMD plan updates. So 'bigger', for now, seems clear.

Right I understand one of the buildings got moderately bigger but to most people a Maleficent E ticket coaster turning into an E ticket boat ride is a lateral move in that regard. Then depending on how one interprets the ENG coaster that could be deemed as less big/ bold then the originally promised second “major” attraction.

Sorry didn’t mean to imply you got it wrong. I Forgot that rumor came from you. I just don’t think the average fan perceives the news as bigger/ bolder. At quick glance it reads like this …

Land - less bold / more family friendly
Maleficent E ticket - a little bigger / less bold
Secondary attraction - less bold / possibly less big

So to me it seems more like change in direction from the edgier/ darker/ more intense to family friendly than bigger/ bolder. The boat ride building getting bigger was done to accommodate the direction change. Not the other way around. With that said Josh could very well be calling it that and it very well could be bolder as well. None of us had the original plans. Just one piece of concept art and Disney’s description of “two major attractions.”

 

[britain]

Right I understand one of the buildings got moderately bigger but to most people a Maleficent E ticket coaster turning into an E ticket boat ride is a lateral move in that regard. Then depending on how one interprets the ENG coaster that could be deemed as less big/ bold then the originally promised second “major” attraction.

Sorry didn’t mean to imply you got it wrong. I Forgot that rumor came from you. I just don’t think the average fan perceives the news as bigger/ bolder. At quick glance it reads like this …

Land - less bold / more family friendly
Maleficent E ticket - a little bigger / less bold
Secondary attraction - less bold / possibly less big

So to me it seems more like change in direction from the edgier/ darker/ more intense to family friendly than bigger/ bolder. The boat ride building getting bigger was done to accommodate the direction change. Not the other way around. With that said Josh could very well be calling it that and it very well could be bolder as well. None of us had the original plans. Just one piece of concept art and Disney’s description of “two major attractions.”

Yeah, we don't really know. Was the original Maleficent E-ticket coaster as impressive as we were imagining it to be? Or was it basically Temple Du Peril with a dragon in the middle?