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MK Villains Land Announced for Walt Disney World's Magic Kingdom

drkarcher22

Active Member
Not sure. but they don't nessicarly need to change the permits do make the land more grand, could just be adding more AA's and stuff like restaurants or shows, as the permits seem to be only for buildings that had water lines going underneath them. I said it on the other forum I'll say it again this reminds me of the 2010 fantasy spring concept art change which was a good change. Reading that Josh told the imaginers to not worry about budget reminds me of TokyoDisneySea which excites me. And if its true about doing 24hr construction then that would be a massive win
I assume Josh understands that Villains is the one area/land that he is going to be judged on the most. It’s basically all going to be built during his time as CEO and there is (at least in the public’s eyes) a similar land in their direct competition’s newest park. (I personally don’t think that they are in anyway similar beyond vaguely gothic imagery) he knows he needs to hit this out of the park and has to splurge on it.
You can slap down a Cars themed flat ride as a secondary ride in the Adventure land section, you can’t do that with this land. Both have to be true E ticket rides with high level theming both in the ride and around. To use Dark Universe as an example, you CANNOT Curse of the Werewolf the area.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Speaking hypothetically, if you worked on something for two years, only for that something to be thrown away, would you not be upset?

Imagine going through 2 years of college only to be told to restart, despite all those late nights spent cramming to meet deadlines
It sucks but it’s part of the job with many creative fields. If it’s the sort of thing someone would quit over then they’re not going to last long in the industry and probably aren’t cut out for the job. This doesn’t just apply to theme entertainment design but also things like movie and television making or even just basic architecture. Even when something is built there is still plenty of work that is tossed aside.
 

Fox&Hound

Well-Known Member
Why are we flipping out because a random poster claims to work for imagineering? No offense meant, but have we seen them share this truth in the past? Would it be wise for their job to post about this in a public forum that has their pic in the bio? That is an easy way to lose their job. Insiders drop hints but they never say “I work in this department and here is what happened at work today!”

And I also don’t think Len’s comments meant that everything is changing. Maybe it just means more advanced AAs or adding a restaurant? Because let’s be very honest, when they made the villains announcement you know they had little more than a general idea of what they planned for Villains Land. That concept art was as vague as can be. Villains land has been a moving target from the beginning
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Because let’s be very honest, when they made the villains announcement you know they had little more than a general idea of what they planned for Villains Land. That concept art was as vague as can be.
A complete concept design package, which is used for official approval to build, is not just an elevator pitch and some vague art. There are entire sets of drawings and artwork. That they chose to release vague imagery, which can even be created for the purpose of being published, doesn’t mean that’s what is actually done.
 

Stripes

Premium Member
Len Testa said the dark ride was originally believed to be MMRR scale yet now new management is pushing for ROTR scale, which is what it should for villains. Does this imply the dark ride will indeed be trackless rather than use the TDS Pan/Avengers ride system?
Len said he was spitballing with regard to the MMRR/Rise comparison. I don’t think you should infer much at all from the comment.
 

Nevermore525

Well-Known Member
If they’re going to be pivoting better to be doing so at the land clearing stage before anything structural or utility base requirements go in place. Still a delay but not as long of a delay potentially
 

ManicMillennial

Well-Known Member
Why are we flipping out because a random poster claims to work for imagineering? No offense meant, but have we seen them share this truth in the past? Would it be wise for their job to post about this in a public forum that has their pic in the bio? That is an easy way to lose their job. Insiders drop hints but they never say “I work in this department and here is what happened at work today!”
I was thinking this same thing. I work for a company that gets a lot of public attention and if I went on a forum dedicated to my work and started talking about my job I’d definitely be unemployed within days.
 

Coaster Lover

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Len Testa said the dark ride was originally believed to be MMRR scale yet now new management is pushing for ROTR scale, which is what it should for villains. Does this imply the dark ride will indeed be trackless rather than use the TDS Pan/Avengers ride system?

I think Len was just suggesting a plussing of the attraction comparing a shift from something along the lines of MMRR (which in the grand scheme of things is a relatively simple attraction) to something more on the line of Rise (which is substantially more ambitious with many more "moving parts").

I know there are some that will argue that "Disney doesn't compete with Universal" and that "Disney doesn't make decisions based on what Universal does", but I would find it VERY hard to believe that Disney hasn't sent a team to Epic and had the "what lessons can we learn from Epic?" conversation.

A Villains themed land has been wanted by fans for decades and they really only have one chance to get it right. They have the advantage of the fact that Universal built their own "villains" land first and that they clearly went all in (especially on the dark ride). I can't imagine that Disney wouldn't want the headline dark ride in probably one of their most anticipated new lands in their most visited park to be one of (if not the) most incredible dark rides they have ever built...
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
If they’re scrapping the Villains plans this late in the game, that $17 billion suddenly doesn’t go as far
WDW is currently working (or clearing for) 5 lands: Cars; Villains; Monsters; Tropics; Animation.

Even if $2B was thrown at each land, there's still $7B leftover for cruise ships.

If this rumor is true, it wouldn't be taking place if they didn't have the money for it. Disney's profits keep increasing each quarter, and they just borrowed another $4B.

Both the Bobs and now Josh have made it very very clear that "experiences" (parks and ships) have the greatest RoI of all their segments. So... why not supersize and turbosize a new land and reap the Lightning Lane passes?

Disney isn't running out of money any time soon (barring Great Recessions and Global Pandemics).
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
I don’t think people seem to like my comment, but I was speaking generally not specifically defending the thoughts the one guy shared.

But I don’t necessarily think it’s just a creative role. I also think anyone who has two years of work scrapped under any field would be very frustrated.

That said people that Imagineering are generally vastly overqualified, vastly underpaid, and vastly overworked.

They’re overqualified form how competitive Imagineering has become. The overqualified portion means they can pretty much all get substantially higher paying jobs that have a lot healthier work-life balance. So they may not be paying Disney, but they are effectively paying to work at WDI with their reduced salary relative to the highest level of their profession and grueling hours.

Part of the appeal to WDI is seeing what you designed / developed get put induration, but if it gets canceled, you don’t ever see that, but that’s just the nature of the beast.

I guess the only thing I have to compare it to is - I create digital products as a small side hustle.

Sometimes I'm in the mood to make them and sometimes I'm not. But on days when I'm making stuff - it doesn't make a ton of difference to me whether I'm making something new or expanding on an older project. The workload (in this case, relatively light) is the same. If I told myself I'm gotta sit my behind down and work on projects, I gotta sit my behind down and work on projects. (These Disney trips don't pay for themselves, ha ha.) Old, new, whatever, same basic idea. Maybe I'm into it that day and maybe I'm not, but it has little to do with the newness or familiarity of the product. The work is similar either way.

I could see what you're saying if the Imagineers were super attached to the project they made. Like they went "I love this specific idea and I'm going to be heartbroken if it doesn't happen." That seems kinda unlikely since we're talking about a budget boost and they were just given more resources for ideas - but yes, possible someone had an idea they loved that ended up on the cutting room floor. (Or, if some people got moved off the project or semi-sidelined, I can of course see that being upsetting - but again, no evidence that happened. The only info we have is "bigger budget". Even the poster claiming to work at Disney didn't say any differently.)
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
Why are we flipping out because a random poster claims to work for imagineering? No offense meant, but have we seen them share this truth in the past? Would it be wise for their job to post about this in a public forum that has their pic in the bio? That is an easy way to lose their job. Insiders drop hints but they never say “I work in this department and here is what happened at work today!”

And I also don’t think Len’s comments meant that everything is changing. Maybe it just means more advanced AAs or adding a restaurant? Because let’s be very honest, when they made the villains announcement you know they had little more than a general idea of what they planned for Villains Land. That concept art was as vague as can be. Villains land has been a moving target from the beginning

Yeah, as BrianLo mentioned, this would have happened at Imagineering some time ago, yet this person was talking about reading about this online (presumably this weekend) and dreading walking into the office. Seems more like somebody was having random fun with AI prompts. Don't drink and post kids! (Or vape, or whatever the heck you kids do these days.)
 

Smiley/OCD

Well-Known Member
Speaking hypothetically, if you worked on something for two years, only for that something to be thrown away, would you not be upset?

Imagine going through 2 years of college only to be told to restart, despite all those late nights spent cramming to meet deadlines
That actually sort of happened to BOTH my daughters…2 years of community college to get their associates degrees, following the GUIDANCE of their HS guidance counselors only to lose over HALF their credits when they transferred to get their bachelor’s degree…lucky my youngest daughter had an awesome academic advisor who bent over backwards and got 80% of her credits accepted. So, YES it does happen…

And while we’re at it…let me get this scenario straight…you’re an imagineer, probably working your DREAM job and you’re going to quit because the project has been significantly changed or cancelled? I know PLENTY of people (including myself) who worked at crappier jobs who put up with that on a daily basis…time to put on your big boy (or girl) pants, suck it up, maybe DRIVE into work and deposit the paycheck…
 

DrStarlander

Well-Known Member
I would find it VERY hard to believe that Disney hasn't sent a team to Epic and had the "what lessons can we learn from Epic?" conversation.
Hopefully one lesson they've learned from Epic is how merciless the criticism will be if the new development areas are too hot and lacking shade. Magic Kingdom's Frontierland is significantly influenced by the fact it is a parade corridor and therefore isn't able to have as much tree coverage as it could. With the loss of RoA and replacement with a lot of concrete the heat is only going to go up.

It would be very helpful for Disney to move the parade corridor to the east side of the park somehow, for two reasons: incorporating tree-planter islands into the Frontierland corridor will transform that area into a lush forest (perfect for Country Bears) and mimic what's successful at Grizzly Peak in DCA. And with all the guests that will be focused on the west side of the park -- with Piston Peak and Villains Land -- moving the parade to the east side would help distribute crowds.
Frontierland_Hotbox.png
 

Smiley/OCD

Well-Known Member
I don’t think people seem to like my comment, but I was speaking generally not specifically defending the thoughts the one guy shared.

But I don’t necessarily think it’s just a creative role. I also think anyone who has two years of work scrapped under any field would be very frustrated.

That said people that Imagineering are generally vastly overqualified, vastly underpaid, and vastly overworked.

They’re overqualified form how competitive Imagineering has become. The overqualified portion means they can pretty much all get substantially higher paying jobs that have a lot healthier work-life balance. So they may not be paying Disney, but they are effectively paying to work at WDI with their reduced salary relative to the highest level of their profession and grueling hours.

Part of the appeal to WDI is seeing what you designed / developed get put induration, but if it gets canceled, you don’t ever see that, but that’s just the nature of the beast.
Think of designers of cars that work for years on a project only for the company to change course or a fashion designer…it happens ALL the time.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I know there are some that will argue that "Disney doesn't compete with Universal" and that "Disney doesn't make decisions based on what Universal does", but I would find it VERY hard to believe that Disney hasn't sent a team to Epic and had the "what lessons can we learn from Epic?" conversation.
There aren’t really any grand secrets that require visiting as a guest. They have access to people and vendors involved in the project, especially with the way Universal handled COVID and dint bring people back as promised.
 
If they’re scrapping the Villains plans this late in the game, that $17 billion suddenly doesn’t go as far
I think scrapped is throwing a lot of people off. I didn't take Len's message as "this whole thing is being reworked top to bottom". I thought of it more as they're going back and seeing where they can improve it more and how. Now for shops/lands/scenic that could be a top to bottom rework. My guess for the rides though is that the systems are in place and now (spitballing here) where something may have been a screen, they may be saying put an animatronic/actual scenic in there. Reckless speculation here, but I think Disney probably saw what Uni did with Monsters Unchained over at Epic and wants to push their Villains dark ride in that direction.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I think scrapped is throwing a lot of people off. I didn't take Len's message as "this whole thing is being reworked top to bottom". I thought of it more as they're going back and seeing where they can improve it more and how. Now for shops/lands/scenic that could be a top to bottom rework. My guess for the rides though is that the systems are in place and now (spitballing here) where something may have been a screen, they may be saying put an animatronic/actual scenic in there. Reckless speculation here, but I think Disney probably saw what Uni did with Monsters Unchained over at Epic and wants to push their Villains dark ride in that direction.
The space requirements for a screen aren’t the same as for practical scenery and animatronics. It’s not really that simple to just swap the two.
 

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