News Coco Boat Ride Coming to Disney California Adventure

[DrStarlander]

30-40% is a huge number. Could the park even handle those numbers in the walkways etc? I think something like 15%-20% after it’s all said and done after all of the additions including Avatar sounds more accurate but I could be wrong.

I think 15-20% is very realistic if these attractions are well-received (Cars Land/RSR level reception). I think 30-40% is the achievable steady-state attendance TWDC would strive for at DCA. They may already know, or be in "wait and see" mode, as to whether they need Simba to achieve that. I personally think they should try offering the full range of attraction types they are famous for by using the acreage they have, first, something they have not yet attempted.

As for your other fun questions (thank you), here's my take as to what I think they "will" do, not what they "should" do:

How long will the path to the show building be from the current parade gate?

If the parade float building stays, the Coco show building could be about 75,000 sq. ft. in footprint and a 350-foot walk/queue from the current gate (very similar to Indy) would be expected.

If all three backstage buildings go away, the show building could be 110,000 sq. ft. in footprint and the walk/queue could be 275 feet.

What attempt, if any, will there be to immerse guests in that outdoor space/ path with the giant coaster looming above?

I think any outdoor queue/plaza-vibe space in front of the show building will be very well themed (in terms of aged stucco walls, tile roofs, metalwork for railings and lighting, landscaping, decorative/thematic touches).

But I think they will largely ignore the fact there's a coaster looming above and make little attempt to conceal that. Pixar Pier is, sadly, a messy and compromised concept and this neighborhood will likely be no different.

Will the entire queue be inside?

No, I think the queue will be significantly, but not completely, outdoors in the area west of Emotional Whirlwind and the coaster.

Will Emotional Whirlwind be removed so its land can be utilized?

No, I don't think the location is necessary or helpful to this project.

Where do we exit? The current bandstand? Will Bing Bongs be rethemed as an exit gift shop for Coco?

If the parade float building goes away and the project is more ambitious scale-wise, I can imagine they could have guests exit through a shop and then onto the pier.

But even if the parade float space is used, and definitely if not, I think it's most likely there will be an Indy-like exit path out to the attraction entrance near the current gate, especially if Paradise Gardens gets more Coco-ized.

Will Paradise Garden Grill and Boardwalk Pizza n Pasta be rethemed to Coco? Where would the Pizza move?

I believe that attraction-IP-inspired F&B is key to Disney's business model, whenever possible. Getting guests enthused around an IP with a multi-hundred-million-dollar attraction fully bears fruit when they can directly sell them not only merch, but associated themed foods and drinks. I don't think having generic F&B "nearby" is the ideal model. It's not just about calories, it's about signature themed drinks, collectible cups and buckets, etc.

So, yes, I think there will be some retheming of Paradise Garden's F&B (if more thematic, incremental, F&B is not included in the project proper). I would liken this to Tiana's Palace in New Orleans Square as a recent comp.

What would that mean for Goofys Sky School and the rest of Paradise Garden Park? Pixar Pier expansion announcement incoming?

Again, not what they "should" do but rather what I think they "will" do: relatively superficial re-theming and otherwise it remains largely the same, including Goofy's Sky School. But only for a decade or two. Eventually I think the entire 3-acre-ish corner of the park will be redeveloped.

 

[Disney Irish]

I also continue to wonder about F&B related to DCA's expansions, especially capacity. The purpose of these attractions is to increase the park's attendance. @BrianLo has suggested attendance could go up 30-40%, which is 3-4 million (Avengers thread, Nov.1). I respect the take.

Where will these people eat?

• We can be fairly confident there's no new F&B coming to Avengers Campus with the two new attractions.
• Retheming Paradise Gardens F&B doesn't obviously increase capacity.
• Is the entire burden of increasing F&B capacity coming in the Avatar land...several years after the other additions?
• Or is DCA F&B underutilized and not needing more F&B capacity to accommodate attendance growth? Are there waits/lines? Can you get a reservation easy to the three table-service restaurants (Disneyland has four, by the way, a question from earlier)?

DCA itself has 4 TSR, they are Carthay, Lamplight, Wine Country, and Magic Key Terrace (it is separate and not part of the rest of restaurants in the wineries). And if you want to say that GC is also part of DCA since it was built out as part of DCA and its just steps from the Park, there are 3 more with Craftsman, Storytellers, and Hearthstone. So that is 7 TSR for DCA.

 

[DrStarlander]

DCA itself has 4 TSR, they are Carthay, Lamplight, Wine Country, and Magic Key Terrace (it is separate and not part of the rest of restaurants in the wineries). And if you want to say that GC is also part of DCA since it was built out as part of DCA and its just steps from the Park, there are 3 more with Craftsman, Storytellers, and Hearthstone. So that is 7 TSR for DCA.

I'm not a Magic Key holder (or Club 33 member in Disneyland). Locations with member-only access are a factor for some but obviously not all. Oga's in DL has some nosh as well if we are hunting. As far as GC restaurants being counted as part of DCA because they were both built at the same time...I'm not sure saying DCA has seven table-service restaurants serves the facts well. Just my opinion. But clearly there are many outside-the-gates options. We often exited the parks and went to Tortilla Joe's when that existed.

For guests who are not Magic Key holders, there are three places to get a table-service meal inside Disney California Adventure Park, and four places inside Disneyland Park. And that makes a lot of sense with the current attendance gap. I have no qualms with the numbers. I have qualms with the provision of magic and fantasy.

 

[mickEblu]

I have qualms with the provision of magic and fantasy.

Big reason why I lament the loss of TOT and ITTBAB/ Bugs Land so much. The park already had so little of that. For the above to get replaced with a concrete waste land with irreverent, meta content was a step back IMO. Mission BO of course has elements of Fantasy even if it’s not necessarily my cup of tea.

Magic, Fantasy and Mystery. I think the mystery part is what really separates TOT from GOTG for example. There is no slow burn or build up. Everything is given to you right away on a silver platter with GOTG as soon as you walk into the lobby. TOT was the closest thing DCA had to POTC, HM or Indy.

 

[Disney Irish]

I'm not a Magic Key holder (or Club 33 member in Disneyland). Locations with member-only access are a factor for some but obviously not all. Oga's in DL has some nosh as well if we are hunting. As far as GC restaurants being counted as part of DCA because they were both built at the same time...I'm not sure saying DCA has seven table-service restaurants serves the facts well. Just my opinion. But clearly there are many outside-the-gates options. We often exited the parks and went to Tortilla Joe's when that existed.

For guests who are not Magic Key holders, there are three places to get a table-service meal inside Disney California Adventure Park, and four places inside Disneyland Park. And that makes a lot of sense with the current attendance gap. I have no qualms with the numbers. I have qualms with the provision of magic and fantasy.

No not everyone is a MK holder, but it is a TSR within the Park even if not accessible by every single guest. This isn't Club 33, its MKs which isn't some special membership. You can literally upgrade your ticket to a MK (provided MK sales are open at the time) and get a reservation to Magic Key Terrace same day.

And as far as the GC TSR options, in my mind they can count toward DCA since again they are literally steps away. This isn't the rest of DTD, which can be seen as the same distance from DL and DCA. This is GC which is sold as having direct access to DCA, ie you can come and go easily into and from DCA.

But even if you don't want to count GC TSR, DCA still has 4, the same number as DL. But can see your point.

 

[Professortango1]

Now if I could only get a same day reservation for any of the table service locations in the park....

That's my biggest issue as a guest, not rewarding exploration and discovery. When we see a nice place to eat and all are in the mood and want to enjoy this cool location, we are told reservations are all full. And we can grab food court food and eat it on top of a trash can.

It means me and my friends mostly stop trying to spend money on food at Disney, since they don't make it very easy to do. Their actions have told us that they don't want us eating there when we visit.

Meanwhile, I can get a Knott's pass down the road and grab a table at the Ghost Town Grill or any other location when the mood strikes.

 

[Professortango1]

No not everyone is a MK holder, but it is a TSR within the Park even if not accessible by every single guest. This isn't Club 33, its MKs which isn't some special membership. You can literally upgrade your ticket to a MK (provided MK sales are open at the time) and get a reservation to Magic Key Terrace same day.

Doesn't require a special membership. It just requires that you pay a lot more money to be a keyholder to be able to eat at a location which used to be available to all guests regardless of special membership. Oops, I mean paid access to a selection of perks for a subscription fee. But it's not a special membership.

 

[Disney Irish]

Now if I could only get a same day reservation for any of the table service locations in the park....

That's my biggest issue as a guest, not rewarding exploration and discovery. When we see a nice place to eat and all are in the mood and want to enjoy this cool location, we are told reservations are all full. And we can grab food court food and eat it on top of a trash can.

It means me and my friends mostly stop trying to spend money on food at Disney, since they don't make it very easy to do. Their actions have told us that they don't want us eating there when we visit.

Meanwhile, I can get a Knott's pass down the road and grab a table at the Ghost Town Grill or any other location when the mood strikes.

I don't disagree that they need to do something about the reservations, ie make it more available for same day.

But your example for Knott's is kinda disingenuous as Knott's has a fraction of the daily attendance than DLR does. DLR had a total of ~27M (combined DL and DCA) compared to Knott's ~5M in 2024.

 

[Disney Irish]

Doesn't require a special membership. It just requires that you pay a lot more money to be a keyholder to be able to eat at a location which used to be available to all guests regardless of special membership. Oops, I mean paid access to a selection of perks for a subscription fee. But it's not a special membership.

And that is no different than many offerings in Disney Parks these days that have an upcharge, LL being another example, both can be looked at as the same. As for whether they should have exclusives/upcharges or not is a different matter and discussion.

 

[Professortango1]

I don't disagree that they need to do something about the reservations, ie make it more available for same day.

But your example for Knott's is kinda disingenuous as Knott's has a fraction of the daily attendance than DLR does. DLR had a total of ~27M (combined DL and DCA) compared to Knott's ~5M in 2024.

Not disputing that. Knotts gets away with a lot due to its clientele. Like a 2 minute and 30 second dispatch time for Ghostrider, my gawd! And a lack of vibe rides that Disney excels in.

But Knotts also just has far better food options available for their guests. Disney pushes counter-service and then many locations now are mobile order only. Its a headache trying to grab food at Disney. At Knotts, its just as easy as dipping into a restaurant and waiting a few minutes for a table and good food off of a physical menu.

 

[mickEblu]

Big reason why I lament the loss of TOT and ITTBAB/ Bugs Land so much. The park already had so little of that. For the above to get replaced with a concrete waste land with irreverent, meta content was a step back IMO. Mission BO of course has elements of Fantasy even if it’s not necessarily my cup of tea.

Magic, Fantasy and Mystery. I think the mystery part is what really separates TOT from GOTG for example. There is no slow burn or build up. Everything is given to you right away on a silver platter with GOTG as soon as you walk into the lobby. TOT was the closest thing DCA had to POTC, HM or Indy.

To tie this into the thread topic... Coco has some heavy lifting to do. It cant just be a superficial musical romp through a 3D storyboard. Especially when the IP lends itself to so much more.

 

[DrStarlander]

No not everyone is a MK holder, but it is a TSR within the Park even if not accessible by every single guest. This isn't Club 33, its MKs which isn't some special membership. You can literally upgrade your ticket to a MK (provided MK sales are open at the time) and get a reservation to Magic Key Terrace same day.

And as far as the GC TSR options, in my mind they can count toward DCA since again they are literally steps away. This isn't the rest of DTD, which can be seen as the same distance from DL and DCA. This is GC which is sold as having direct access to DCA, ie you can come and go easily into and from DCA.

But even if you don't want to count GC TSR, DCA still has 4, the same number as DL. But can see your point.

I do understand your point. There are TS options inside the gates, and some directly outside the gates. And some that are not directly outside the gates (such as riding the Monorail to the Disneyland Hotel and, say, going to Trader Sam's, then returning on the Monorail which -- as far as an overall set of experiences -- might as well be entirely inside a theme park its so magical and outside the "every day.").

So, there's a technical argument and a pragmatic argument. And it's all good, many different cases to be made and places where lines can be drawn. And again, I don't think DCA "needs" another table-service restaurant. I think it needs more magic, fantasy, and thematically transportive spaces and I think table-service -- because you slow down, relax, and absorb your surroundings -- is a great form of that. I believe there was a discussion a while back about wishing there was a Sci-Fi Drive-In type restaurant in Cars Land, at least for me, to serve the same purpose.

Everything is given to you right away on a silver platter

Yes, and in fact, that's my overall gripe about DCA. The entire park, nearly/essentially (no doubt because of its original theme/concept), is very literal and straightforward.

When we see a nice place to eat and all are in the mood and want to enjoy this cool location, we are told reservations are all full. And we can grab food court food and eat it on top of a trash can.

It means me and my friends mostly stop trying to spend money on food at Disney, since they don't make it very easy to do. Their actions have told us that they don't want us eating there when we visit.

That was kind of the basis for my question about how much additional F&B capacity is needed as part of adding four new attractions. Maybe a new, big restaurant in Avatar Land is all that's needed. But btw, why didn't they call that project a "land" then. Why call it an "experience"?

To tie this into the thread topic... Coco has some heavy lifting to do. It cant just be a superficial musical romp through a 3D storyboard. Especially when the IP lends itself to so much more.

Agreed. The potential for it is huge.

 

[Professortango1]

And that is no different than many offerings in Disney Parks these days that have an upcharge, LL being another example, both can be looked at as the same. As for whether they should have exclusives or not is a different matter and discussion.

Lightning Lane isn't an ongoing perk. And you don't need to purchase LL to get into any public-facing parts of the resort. Its not like I am prevented from riding Monsters Inc unless I get a LL. However, I literally will not be allowed to buy and consume food at the Magic Key Terrace without a Magic Key.

Let's look at what Magic Keys are available right now and let's see how much it would cost me to eat there. Oooh, only $1,474 to get the privilege to eat there and spend $30-$70 a plate. Forgot, I can upgrade my ticket. So its only $1,300+ to eat there. A bargain! Glad it's not some area restricted to special memberships.

 

[Disney Irish]

Not disputing that. Knotts gets away with a lot due to its clientele. Like a 2 minute and 30 second dispatch time for Ghostrider, my gawd! And a lack of vibe rides that Disney excels in.

But Knotts also just has far better food options available for their guests. Disney pushes counter-service and then many locations now are mobile order only. Its a headache trying to grab food at Disney. At Knotts, its just as easy as dipping into a restaurant and waiting a few minutes for a table and good food off of a physical menu.

Well you'll be happy to hear that it appears that DLR is backing away from the Mobile Order only locations.

 

[Professortango1]

Well you'll be happy to hear that it appears that DLR is backing away from the Mobile Order only locations.

I am happy to hear that. Hope it continues when I revisit in 2-3 years. I let my pass go and grabbed a Knott's pass with parking for $200 out the door.

The ride situation isn't as good as Disney to be sure. But they have entertainment. And dining. And neither are behind paywalls other than admission.

I hope Disney can turn this around and get back to the things which make guests happy as opposed to making them the most profitable.

 

[mickEblu]

I am happy to hear that. Hope it continues when I revisit in 2-3 years. I let my pass go and grabbed a Knott's pass with parking for $200 out the door.

The ride situation isn't as good as Disney to be sure. But they have entertainment. And dining. And neither are behind paywalls other than admission.

I hope Disney can turn this around and get back to the things which make guests happy as opposed to making them the most profitable.

How far do you live from the park? I think a pass is a no brainer for a local. For my family it just didnt work. Due to the wait times and slow operations, the only way it would work is if we bought fast lanes for the year and at that point you're paying Disney prices and driving nearly the same distance. Not to mention much of the better side of the ride roster isn't child friendly.

 

[Professortango1]

How far do you live from the park? I think a pass is a no brainer for a local. For my family it just didnt work. Due to the wait times and slow operations, the only way it would work is if we bought fast lanes for the year and at that point you're paying Disney prices and driving nearly the same distance. Not to mention much of the better side of the ride roster isn't child friendly.

Knotts is about 15-20 minutes further than Disneyland for me. I live in Riverside.

For me, I would never buy a Fast Lane at any park unless I was there for a once-in-a-lifetime trip. And even then its a maybe. I've never used a paid LL at Disney. Doubt I ever will, as standing for 45-75 minutes for a major ride is kind of expected with theme parks.

I waited 5 minutes for Ghostrider throughout the day. Waited 15 for Sierra Sidewinder. 5 for Hang Time. 5 for Silver Bullet.

With Knotts, the lack of attractions which interest me means I am okay standing in a line a few times a day while taking in the scenery. I would love to have a darkride or two available though. Coasters and flat rides dominate too much.

Which, taking it back to DCA, is why I always was frustrated by Disney. Knotts is a scaled down California-themed park and Disney looked at their charming park and thought...yeah, let's make our version super modern and rad! If DCA was a Disney-quality version of Knotts with dining and entertainment and darkrides mixed with some fun themed thrill rides; I'd be there in a heartbeat.

Hopefully Coco can bring some classic Disney magic into the concrete modern hellscape that is DCA.

 

[mickEblu]

Knotts is about 15-20 minutes further than Disneyland for me. I live in Riverside.

For me, I would never buy a Fast Lane at any park unless I was there for a once-in-a-lifetime trip. And even then its a maybe. I've never used a paid LL at Disney. Doubt I ever will, as standing for 45-75 minutes for a major ride is kind of expected with theme parks.

I waited 5 minutes for Ghostrider throughout the day. Waited 15 for Sierra Sidewinder. 5 for Hang Time. 5 for Silver Bullet.

With Knotts, the lack of attractions which interest me means I am okay standing in a line a few times a day while taking in the scenery.

wow when we had our pass Ghostrider was never less than two hours. Wait times were always insane for nearly everything. Granted I only went about 5 times and they probably weren't the best days to go. Weekends, Summer break, Spring Break, Christmas season etc. There's only so many weekdays Im willing to take off work and drive an hour + to Knotts.

Operations and ride loading are mind numbingly slow.

 

[Disney Irish]

I do understand your point. There are TS options inside the gates, and some directly outside the gates. And some that are not directly outside the gates (such as riding the Monorail to the Disneyland Hotel and, say, going to Trader Sam's, then returning on the Monorail which -- as far as an overall set of experiences -- might as well be entirely inside a theme park its so magical and outside the "every day.").

So, there's a technical argument and a pragmatic argument. And it's all good, many different cases to be made and places where lines can be drawn. And again, I don't think DCA "needs" another table-service restaurant. I think it needs more magic, fantasy, and thematically transportive spaces and I think table-service -- because you slow down, relax, and absorb your surroundings -- is a great form of that. I believe there was a discussion a while back about wishing there was a Sci-Fi Drive-In type restaurant in Cars Land, at least for me, to serve the same purpose.

Not saying that DCA doesn't need or shouldn't have another TSR, as I mentioned I suspect it will get at least one as part of the expansion into Simba, and as even I think you agree probably one with Avatar. And even if Coco would have been a good IP to get a TSR, it just doesn't appear to be in the cards at least with this project.

That was kind of the basis for my question about how much additional F&B capacity is needed as part of adding four new attractions. Maybe a new, big restaurant in Avatar Land is all that's needed. But btw, why didn't they call that project a "land" then. Why call it an "experience"?

Serious question, does each new attraction need new F&B capacity associated with it? I don't think there is a direct correlation between the number of new attractions coming online and F&B locations being added. As of the 4 new attractions only 1 (assuming its only 1 and not a 2nd yet to be announced) is part of a new land. So really in my mind its new lands where F&B capacity additions are discussed, not attractions. Which goes back to the point, this side of the Park where Coco is located already has a bunch of F&B locations, outside of the obvious IP synergy there really isn't a huge need to add a TSR, or really even a QSR if we're being honest since you have locations within a few steps of where the attraction will be.

Maybe this deserves its own thread to talk about F&B expansion in both Parks, because its not isolated to just DCA as DL could use more too.

As for why its not called a land yet, I suspect its because they don't want to set huge expectations for a Pandora clone. So they want to differentiate it a bit, my guess is they will start to call it a land as we get closer to opening.

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

30-40% is a huge number. Could the park even handle those numbers in the walkways etc? I think something like 15%-20% after it’s all said and done after all of the additions including Avatar sounds more accurate but I could be wrong. And you have to wonder how much of that would just be the same old people just now making DCA their starting park.

Excuse me if this is a stupid question, but I maybe don’t know exactly how they count these type of entries, but if they only count attendance by people who use that as their starting park, would we be able to tell if it’s just the same people now using DCA to start if Disneyland park itself has an attendance dip?